The future of Ottawa's Transit

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Dado

My preference would be to run light rail in its own rail corridor but very close to a main street (i.e. just one block away, so that some buildings share mainstreet and light rail frontage).

Such was my idea from last night re running the Bus Crappid Transit corridor a block south of Earl Whatisname Six-Lane Street.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Interesting comments but other than changing the Riverside South plan, where could that be applied to Ottawa's main streets?

It couldn't.

On the surface.

But (A) again, it's a great argument for not building Curvy-Wurvy any more, and the city invoking the powers it has to impose a grid, and (B) rather than disrupt Bank or Rideau with future tunnel works in seven century's time, you can do what Toronto did, and offset the works by a block.

[lrt's friend]

I noticed this evening that improvements are being made at the General Hospital, adding new sidewalks and installing a new bus shelter. I believe incoming access to the General Hospital (and CHEO) during off-peak hours will be on Smyth Road, which is worse.

[Uhuniau]

Boy, I sure am glad the neighbours NIMBIed the only workable hospital rapid transit corridor out of existence.

Damn freeloading hospital patients anyway.

[S-Man]

Forget the patients, what about the neighbour's quality of life? They're willing to live with a reduced chance of emergency room survival if it means less ambulance noise - priorities, you see.......

[lrt's friend]

Ottawa is 'cheap'. The latest pearls of wisdom for service at the General Hospital is that a taxi service will be offered every half hour to the back of the campus where the rehab centre is located. That is the ultimate in inconvenience since this cannot be properly cooridinated with the bus service to the campus even if they try. It is nothing short of a bandaid solution for a mistake that was made in the first place. Buses should be making trips around the ring road during all hours when all the various clinics are open for outpatients. This is a perfect example of disregarding the customer in order to achieve a budget goal. Eventhough a cost analysis is always appropriate, the discussion seemed to point the fact that sick people are not worthy of full bus service which is more expensive than the less frequent taxi service, which I expect only a few will know about. As it stands, the bus service at the General Hospital is being designed for the employees of the hospital and not for visitors or patients of the hospital. This is sick.

[MalcolmTucker]

Umm - I know many other places, Calgary, Toronto to just name a few where the hospitals/health network/health authority runs its own transit within and between facilities.

Why should the city be operating it at all? If it is needed for patients, patients shouldn't need to pay bus fare for it either.

[Richard Eade]

But the taxi 'service' is every half hour - only during the off-peak day-time period I think - which is MUCH better service than some places are getting with their single bus every two hours regular bus 'service'. I think the numbers I heard (on CFRA) were $7,000 for the taxi service and $35,000 to have the bus do the loop.

The comments left it open whether the bus would be returned in December. This indicates to me that the high cost of adding it back in now is mostly because it wasn't in the booking list for this period.

Some questions: Is there just to be one run every half hour? What if five people get off the bus? How will people returning from the Re-hab Centre back to the main road signal the taxi? Will the taxi be wheelchair friendly? I am assuming that riders will not have to pay for the taxi, but will there be a fixed cost for OC Transpo, or will it vary depending on the number of people ferried back and forth? How will statistics be kept (and monitored)?

In my mind, I picture a cab arriving at some random time during the half hour (from other jobs, since the $7,000 won't hold a taxi there for almost four months) and quickly driving around the loop before leaving again. I suspect that there will not be a taxi lay-up period at either end of the route and that some people will miss the taxi because they don't recognize it as 'their' taxi. I expect that there are a lot of cabs going to and from the hospital and if the taxi doesn't want to actively look for possible passengers then it could go un-noticed. If there is a fixed cost for the 'service', then the taxi driver looses nothing by racing around the loop before heading off to a 'real' fare; the driver gets paid the same and doesn't get delayed by a slow passenger for no added benefit.

[Richard Eade]

If there is no charge or POP required for the taxi, will cars simply drop off people at the main road so that they can take the 'shuttle' in to the Re-hab Centre?

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

But the taxi 'service' is every half hour - only during the off-peak day-time period I think - which is MUCH better service than some places are getting with their single bus every two hours regular bus 'service'. I think the numbers I heard (on CFRA) were $7,000 for the taxi service and $35,000 to have the bus do the loop.

The comments left it open whether the bus would be returned in December. This indicates to me that the high cost of adding it back in now is mostly because it wasn't in the booking list for this period.

Some questions: Is there just to be one run every half hour? What if five people get off the bus? How will people returning from the Re-hab Centre back to the main road signal the taxi? Will the taxi be wheelchair friendly? I am assuming that riders will not have to pay for the taxi, but will there be a fixed cost for OC Transpo, or will it vary depending on the number of people ferried back and forth? How will statistics be kept (and monitored)?

In my mind, I picture a cab arriving at some random time during the half hour (from other jobs, since the $7,000 won't hold a taxi there for almost four months) and quickly driving around the loop before leaving again. I suspect that there will not be a taxi lay-up period at either end of the route and that some people will miss the taxi because they don't recognize it as 'their' taxi. I expect that there are a lot of cabs going to and from the hospital and if the taxi doesn't want to actively look for possible passengers then it could go un-noticed. If there is a fixed cost for the 'service', then the taxi driver looses nothing by racing around the loop before heading off to a 'real' fare; the driver gets paid the same and doesn't get delayed by a slow passenger for no added benefit.

Personally, here is what I would do in the area, while making it basically revenue-neutral:

* Route 106 shorter routing becomes an all-time route, including during peak periods.

* Route 16 is pulled east of the Rideau Centre on weekdays; only on weekends should it run on to the Pretoria Bridge (in order to maintain weekend service to lower Sandy Hill).

* A new Route 17 should be created on weekdays between the Rideau Centre and the hospital complex, partially paid for by the University of Ottawa to balance costs as it would connect all their facilities. It would bring direct-to-downtown service back to the hospitals on weekdays, generally every 15 minutes at peak periods, every 30 minutes at midday and early evening plus two late evening trips around 10:30 and 11:30 pm. (There would still be no weekend service on the loop, but ridership is much lower then.)

[bobert_d]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

* A new Route 17 should be created on weekdays between the Rideau Centre and the hospital complex, partially paid for by the University of Ottawa to balance costs as it would connect all their facilities. It would bring direct-to-downtown service back to the hospitals on weekdays, generally every 15 minutes at peak periods, every 30 minutes at midday and early evening plus two late evening trips around 10:30 and 11:30 pm. (There would still be no weekend service on the loop, but ridership is much lower then.)

Why would uOttawa want to fund this bus? They already run a half hourly shuttle between their campuses, as well as to Carleton. This shuttle is free for students and employees.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by bobert_d

Why would uOttawa want to fund this bus? They already run a half hourly shuttle between their campuses, as well as to Carleton. This shuttle is free for students and employees.

Most students get uPasses, and they would no longer need to fund such a bus.

[bobert_d]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Most students get uPasses, and they would no longer need to fund such a bus.

and what about their employees? Should they start giving out passes to them, too? Oh, and we're completely neglecting all the students that don't qualify for the uPass, such as international students and everyone that lives in Gatineau.

[lrt's friend]

The main passenger generator on Route 106 is the hospital complex so why are we not serving it properly? Again, it is because of irrational and arbitrary budget decisions.

Next week, we will quickly learn of other bad decisions. I will be watching for reaction from those living at the apartment complex at Prince of Wales and Meadowlands who will be losing direct to downtown service and will be expected to take a round about route via Billings Bridge, and the Southeast Transitway. So much for straightening routes.

[lrt's friend]

And now the latest CFRA poll has got 89% support to replace off-peak transit service with taxis in order to save 80% of costs.

Of course, when you are only supplied with part of the information, you will naturally get this kind of response. Ottawa is full of cheapskates.

The only way this bandaid solution works is if no more than 3 passengers make a trip. And of course, it isn't mentioned that it does not provide the same level of service as the 106, which in turn, means that transfers will not be reliable. We really don't want people to use the taxi service. Even if we deployed vans, you are limited to 5 passengers. So, what happens if there is more than 5 passengers. I guess, too bad.

This kind of idea will simply destroy the transit system in Ottawa.

I recall one situation where a van was put in service on one route years ago. The van service was so popular that the route was eliminated shortly thereafter. This is what we will see happen throughout suburban Ottawa. The end result will be that there will be large patches of the city where there will be no transit service, and we end up with the kind of service that exists in most American cities. There will be no alternative but to use a car and we will spending piles of money on road expansion without a second thought. Heck, we are already doing that.

[lrt's friend]

Well, well, well.

So the taxi service is out, and a shuttle bus is in. I guess an improvement since the taxi service was limited to 1 wheelchair at a time.

But really, a shuttle bus is still just a bandaid solution to a problem that doesn't even start until next week. Really, if we are going this far, we might as well restore full service during the day time. The problem being scheduling, but really OC Transpo needs to find a way around its very inflexible scheduling system. Why make people transfer from a shuttle to the 106, back and forth during some hours and not others? For crying out loud, it only takes 5 minutes for a bus to travel the loop.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Well, well, well.

So the taxi service is out, and a shuttle bus is in. I guess an improvement since the taxi service was limited to 1 wheelchair at a time.

But really, a shuttle bus is still just a bandaid solution to a problem that doesn't even start until next week. Really, if we are going this far, we might as well restore full service during the day time. The problem being scheduling, but really OC Transpo needs to find a way around its very inflexible scheduling system. Why make people transfer from a shuttle to the 106, back and forth during some hours and not others? For crying out loud, it only takes 5 minutes for a bus to travel the loop.

Agreed, also if they want to run the shuttle, get rid of the 106 on the loop at all times of day (make it easier for people going from Elmvale to Hurdman). I'd just create a new route in December personally as with my above idea, eliminate the shuttle then as well as peak period 106 service on the loop and the 16 east of the Rideau Centre on weekdays. The new 17 that I propose would do all that on weekdays. On weekends, there would be no change from the September proposals.

Certainly they need midday (and early evening as well would be ideal) service on the loop. I don't see a real need for weekend service on the loop as ridership would be really low there anyway (appointments rarely, if ever, take place on the weekends and visitors could easily walk from CHEO or the General).

There is one advantage of removing the 106 from the loop: those going from Elmvale to Hurdman have a much quicker trip.

[Uhuniau]

Now, can we start thinking about the micro-scale site-planning of things like hospital and post-secondary campuses, so that these kinds of stupid loops aren't necessary in the first friggin' place?

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Personally, here is what I would do in the area, while making it basically revenue-neutral:

* Route 106 shorter routing becomes an all-time route, including during peak periods.

* Route 16 is pulled east of the Rideau Centre on weekdays; only on weekends should it run on to the Pretoria Bridge (in order to maintain weekend service to lower Sandy Hill).

* A new Route 17 should be created on weekdays between the Rideau Centre and the hospital complex, partially paid for by the University of Ottawa to balance costs as it would connect all their facilities. It would bring direct-to-downtown service back to the hospitals on weekdays, generally every 15 minutes at peak periods, every 30 minutes at midday and early evening plus two late evening trips around 10:30 and 11:30 pm. (There would still be no weekend service on the loop, but ridership is much lower then.)

uOttawa already runs a shuttle between its campuses (http://www.protection.uottawa.ca/en/shuttle.html), but maybe they could work out something to replace it with an OC service partially funded by the university. It would make sense given that all uOttawa students have UPasses.

[eternallyme]

Also about the 86B/86C confusion, I've come up with an idea to clear that up, without really affecting the budget:

* Route 86 would be removed from the west end completely, only running from downtown (Hurdman at lower-use times) to Elmvale and Southvale (could also be extended to Hawthorne). Once the LRT is installed, it would make it easy to shift to city streets. The downtown section from Tunney's Pasture eastward is well covered by other routes. Removing that would make everything simpler and allow for

* Replacements in Ottawa West and Nepean would be:

** Route 3 is resurrected in the same form it had before this week, except it would run along Prince of Wales to Fisher and Viewmount (to keep it separated from Route 111). The weak semi-replacements would not be necessary as a result.
** Route 14 would provide nearby service for Fisher between Carling and Baseline.
** Route 111 would need to be increased at more times of day to pick up the slack of the lost 86 (trips split between 111 CARLETON and 111 BILLINGS BRIDGE). It should also remain on Meadowlands rather than Chesterton and Viewmount
** NEW peak-only Route 153 would provide service from Tunney's Pasture along Fisher and Holland to Fisher/Prince of Wales, maintaining a peak-period link.
** NEW local Route 158 would provide some service along Chesterton and Viewmount west of Merivale. It should also be combined with Route 178 to serve Centrepointe as well. It would run infrequently Monday to Friday, although with more trips than the 178 has now. Routes 3 and 111 would be within a reasonable walking distance otherwise.
** Route 176 would also provide significant replacement service for large parts of the 86.