Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[jsbertram]

I received an email from Translink earlier today:

...

We are currently developing our 2012 “Moving Forward” Supplemental Plan and want to get feedback on the priorities we have identified and which funding sources should support these enhancements.



Join us for one of four in-person workshops! Each session will begin with an open house (6:30 – 7 p.m.), followed by a presentation and discussion (7 – 8:30 p.m.).

· Wednesday, September 7, 2011 – Lonsdale Quay Hotel - 123 Carrie Cates Court, North Vancouver BC – 6:30 – 8:30 p.m.

· Thursday, September 8, 2011 – Holiday Inn Metrotown Salon E – 4405 Central Blvd, Burnaby BC – 6:30 – 8:30 p.m.

· Wednesday, September 14, 2011 – Guildford Recreation Centre Multi-purpose Room, 15105 105 Ave., Surrey BC – 6:30 – 8:30 p.m.

· Thursday September 15, 2011 – Evergreen Cultural Centre, Studio A – 1205 Pinetree Way, Coquitlam BC – 6:30 – 8:30 p.m.



Visit our website, at www.translink.ca/movingforward for additional information and view our interactive webinar that took place on July 19. If you are unable to attend the in-person sessions, please take a moment to fill out our online questionnaire (available until September 23).



I am the Community Relations Coordinator for the Supplemental Plan. Please don’t hesitate to contact me if you have any questions or feedback on the plan.



Sincerely,

Kristin



Kristin Lillyman

Community Relations Coordinator | TransLink
T: 604.453.4687 | C: 604.561.6217
E: [email protected]
www.translink.ca

...


Just a reminder that this 'Moving Forward' Plan consultation is separate from the UBC / Broadway Corridor study and consultations that have been on-going for several years.

It looks to me like this 'Moving Forward' Plan is Translink's way of prioritizing the mega-projects that they'll be able to start once the extra funding starts showing up beginning next year.

My priorities are:
a) Evergreen
b) Broadway to UBC
c) everything else.

Even if you've been active in the other study consultations, we still need to get involved with this 'Moving Forward' Plan consultation to keep Broadway Corridor to UBC Skytrain at the top of the list (after Evergreen).

[ssiguy]

My priorities:
Evergreen, KG BLine from White Rock to SkyTrain
SkyTrain Broadway extention to Alma..........NOT UBC
Use the saved funds from cancelling the Alma to UBC line and instead use it as SkYtrain east expansion from Waterfront to Kootenay Loop. It is a far busier and more congested route than West 10Th west of Alma.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

My priorities:
Evergreen, KG BLine from White Rock to SkyTrain
SkyTrain Broadway extention to Alma..........NOT UBC
Use the saved funds from cancelling the Alma to UBC line and instead use it as SkYtrain east expansion from Waterfront to Kootenay Loop. It is a far busier and more congested route than West 10Th west of Alma.

Good idea. Agreed on that.

[bardak]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

My priorities:
Evergreen, KG BLine from White Rock to SkyTrain
SkyTrain Broadway extention to Alma..........NOT UBC
Use the saved funds from cancelling the Alma to UBC line and instead use it as SkYtrain east expansion from Waterfront to Kootenay Loop. It is a far busier and more congested route than West 10Th west of Alma.

I don't think that you would save nearly enough money by stopping at Alma to build out to the kootenay loop. There would only be 2 or 3 stations after Alma and the 2.5k west of Blanca would be the cheapest part of the line. Where as to do an kootenay loop extension you would need to at lest 5-6 stations and install the tunnel boring machine.

Also I think that people undersell the affect of the line going all the way. If you stop short the only bus lines that would really be affected (in regard to commuters going to UBC) east of the expo line would be 99, and the 84. Where as going all the way would be faster than the 4, 14, 44, 84, 99, and 480. It would also take about the same time to for anyone to transfer from the 25, 33, 41, 43, 49 to the Canada line and then the millennium line as it would to stay on the bus. While it is probably easier to stay on the bus I'm sure some would rather take the Skytrain. It would also be faster for anyone coming from the Canada line.

[ozonemania]

I also believe it needs to go to UBC. As probably been mentioned on this board already -- the difference in cost between stopping at alma vs ubc would be relatively minor, and probably worth the extra cost, especially if you are getting UBC involved. Among the largest costs are those involving setup, logistics and supply chain. These and others are already incurred when the rest of the line is being constructed, so the extra cost will be incremental, not in huge chunks.

It's also true if they stop at Alma with plans to extend at some undetermined future date it will cost less in the near term -- long term it would cost more. But I guess that's the fate of many major infrastructure projects.

Indeed ending at Alma is suboptimal as far as I'm concerned -- things like ridership growth, urban development etc (not to mention profitability) are highly impacted with a strong terminus as opposed to one that peters out into low density nothingness.

Anyway -- I got that email invitation too from Translink... I'm contemplating attending the North Van one if I can make it over there in time (damn commute times! )

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

My priorities:
Evergreen, KG BLine from White Rock to SkyTrain
SkyTrain Broadway extention to Alma..........NOT UBC
Use the saved funds from cancelling the Alma to UBC line and instead use it as SkYtrain east expansion from Waterfront to Kootenay Loop. It is a far busier and more congested route than West 10Th west of Alma.

Originally Posted by bardak

I don't think that you would save nearly enough money by stopping at Alma to build out to the kootenay loop. There would only be 2 or 3 stations after Alma and the 2.5k west of Blanca would be the cheapest part of the line. Where as to do an kootenay loop extension you would need to at lest 5-6 stations and install the tunnel boring machine.

Also I think that people undersell the affect of the line going all the way. If you stop short the only bus lines that would really be affected (in regard to commuters going to UBC) east of the expo line would be 99, and the 84. Where as going all the way would be faster than the 4, 14, 44, 84, 99, and 480. It would also take about the same time to for anyone to transfer from the 25, 33, 41, 43, 49 to the Canada line and then the millennium line as it would to stay on the bus. While it is probably easier to stay on the bus I'm sure some would rather take the Skytrain. It would also be faster for anyone coming from the Canada line.

Originally Posted by ozonemania

I also believe it needs to go to UBC. As probably been mentioned on this board already -- the difference in cost between stopping at alma vs ubc would be relatively minor, and probably worth the extra cost, especially if you are getting UBC involved. Among the largest costs are those involving setup, logistics and supply chain. These and others are already incurred when the rest of the line is being constructed, so the extra cost will be incremental, not in huge chunks.

It's also true if they stop at Alma with plans to extend at some undetermined future date it will cost less in the near term -- long term it would cost more. But I guess that's the fate of many major infrastructure projects.

Indeed ending at Alma is suboptimal as far as I'm concerned -- things like ridership growth, urban development etc (not to mention profitability) are highly impacted with a strong terminus as opposed to one that peters out into low density nothingness.

Could this be discussed and observed schematized on the TRANSIT FANTASIES thread? It seems a potentially important issue.

[WarrenC12]

After the M-Line is extended all the way to UBC, I think that's the end of Skytrain expansion in Metro Vancouver, for a long time if not forever. After that, time for some LRT South of the Fraser.

[aberdeen5698]

I'm a little ambivalent about extending the Broadway line all the way to UBC, but one argument in favour is that if it means more University students take transit then you're helping to set habits that will lead to higher transit usage in general after they graduate.

[squeezied]

A broadway extension to just Alma is not very logical. There is a good reason why the Expo line does not go from King George to just Main, stopping short of downtown. Same reason for every other line; they don't end just short of its destination. People need to realize UBC is the third highest transit destination (after downtown and central broadway) and give credit for that.

[CLC]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I'm a little ambivalent about extending the Broadway line all the way to UBC, but one argument in favour is that if it means more University students take transit then you're helping to set habits that will lead to higher transit usage in general after they graduate.

The first bunch of former u-pass holders are mostly over 30 now, and from those I know, not too many are regular (or even occassional) transit riders.

[crazyjoeda]

Originally Posted by CLC

The first bunch of former u-pass holders are mostly over 30 now, and from those I know, not too many are regular (or even occassional) transit riders.

That doesn't necessarily mean anything because it's highly anecdotal. I'm not sure if the issue has been studied, but I do know that transit ridership has been growing overall.

Although, I imagine some UBC students could be turned off transit by the overcrowded B-Line. For most of the day the buses are extremely overcrowd and pass-ups are frequent, making commuting by transit unreliable and unenjoyable.

[usog]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

After the M-Line is extended all the way to UBC, I think that's the end of Skytrain expansion in Metro Vancouver, for a long time if not forever. After that, time for some LRT South of the Fraser.

Hello from the fastest growing region of metro vancouver, we exist! And going by the rhetoric, I think surrey would get some sort of skytrain extension before an extension goes all the way to UBC. Doing anything else would send a message the politicians don't want to send.

[WarrenC12]

So, going by rhetoric but not common sense? I don't think most of Surrey has the population density (like the Broadway Corridor) or the big destination (like UBC) to support the expensive of Skytrain. Certainly it should be first on the list for LRT though.

[LeftCoaster]

So because that area of Vancouver was populated and densified earlier than Surrey they don't deserve skytrain before?

That's absolutely ridiculous.

[usog]

Do you really think that they can sell running it all the way to UBC? Alma I can see them justifying but considering even getting the Canada Line built the way it was they had to run through a near infinite amount of hoops in forcing it through. Of course it makes perfectly logical sense to end it at UBC but given the costs and political capital needed to force it through as well as the current situation do you really think those in charge would go for it rather than other low hanging fruit? We live in an unfortunately real world

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

So because that area of Vancouver was populated and densified earlier than Surrey they don't deserve skytrain before?

That's absolutely ridiculous.

By the time we have a SkyTrain expansion or whatever proposed for Surrey, it would already have or be not that far away from haivng eclipsed Vancouver in population...

I don't doubt the need for UBC Skytrain beforehand though.

[bardak]

Originally Posted by usog

Do you really think that they can sell running it all the way to UBC? Alma I can see them justifying but considering even getting the Canada Line built the way it was they had to run through a near infinite amount of hoops in forcing it through. Of course it makes perfectly logical sense to end it at UBC but given the costs and political capital needed to force it through as well as the current situation do you really think those in charge would go for it rather than other low hanging fruit? We live in an unfortunately real world

I'd rather stop stop at Arbutus if you are going to stop short. They will lose some bus integration with the 7 and 22 but I think that it would be well worth the savings.

[Zassk]

I think some of you have absolutely no idea how big or important UBC is to the region.

UBC is sitting on a frigging huge endowment, that can help pay the cost of the line ..... but only if the line goes to UBC!

[usog]

Originally Posted by Zassk

I think some of you have absolutely no idea how big or important UBC is to the region.

UBC is sitting on a frigging huge endowment, that can help pay the cost of the line ..... but only if the line goes to UBC!

Would UBC agree to pay for all additional construction costs in extending to UBC though?

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by usog

Would UBC agree to pay for all additional construction costs in extending to UBC though?

My point is people should not assume this is all money to be dispersed arbitrarily. The last 5 km to UBC is outside of city governance and has unique potential funding solutions, in a similar manner to the YVR branch of the Canada Line.

It's not feasible to say that the last part of the UBC line can be substituted by a line to Kootenay Loop or anywhere else.