Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[arkhitektor]

Originally Posted by livedowntown

It is much cheaper than paying a car payment ($200-700+), insurance ($75-150+), maintenance ($30-100+)and gas ($80-250+).

$75 to get everywhere the system goes is considerably cheaper. (Not more convenient or faster - although it can be - just less expensive over all)

$75 will not get you anywhere in the system, a monthly premium pass (needed to ride FrontRunner) costs $180 /month.

But, I would guess that less than 30% of the people I see on FrontRunner daily actually pay full price for their passes. Most have ed passes or eco passes that are either subsidized or free.

I've heard that UTA is changing the way ed passes are paid for and distributed starting this semester, but until I graduated last spring, I got a premium pass (normally $180/month) absolutely free as a Weber State student.

If annual passes continue to be free for all students who are enrolled at least one semester a year, it would actually cost me less to register as a student in some useless online class and continue paying tuition than it would to pay UTA the $2,160 that it would cost for a premium pass over the course of a year.

[livedowntown]

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

$75 will not get you anywhere in the system, a monthly premium pass (needed to ride FrontRunner) costs $180 /month.

But, I would guess that less than 30% of the people I see on FrontRunner daily actually pay full price for their passes. Most have ed passes or eco passes that are either subsidized or free.

I've heard that UTA is changing the way ed passes are paid for and distributed starting this semester, but until I graduated last spring, I got a premium pass (normally $180/month) absolutely free as a Weber State student.

If annual passes continue to be free for all students who are enrolled at least one semester a year, it would actually cost me less to register as a student in some useless online class and paying tuition than it would to pay UTA the $2,160 that it would cost for a premium pass over the course of a year.

Some thing is definitely wrong with that (or right). Just become a perpetual student. You can keep getting student discounts everywhere else too. You might save thousands.

[StevenF]

Idaho Falls, has a joke of a bus system and I miss UTA. Buses here are smaller than a "Short Bus" and don't come around very often. The CVTD, in Cache Valley was much larger and Idaho Falls and Logan have a very similar metro size. Just saying, don't complain as things could be worse like they are here.

I swear people here in Idaho Falls are afraid to pay taxes in anyway. No mass transit, old style garbage pick up (they still use man power), and no recycling program. There was a proposition bill that did actually pass voters a few months ago to raise the hotel tax to add in an auditorium district. It had some high paying naysayers(cough hotel owners), that tried to kill it but it ended up passing something like 60%. But still that tax isn't something most locals will ever need to pay anyways.

my main desire would to see a bus that travels between Idaho Falls and Rexburg as my wife currently travels the distance for her job. we fortunately have a Ford Focus that gets 35-40 MPG and only pay $35-40 to fill up its tank. But we tend to fill it at least 2 times a week and that can add up over the month.

But, to go back to what people are saying about how $75 a month for a transit pass is expensive. I would gladly pay that amount to reduce my dependency on a car. If I could get rid of a car it could end up saving me the head ache of paying more bills. Anything in today's economy that could reduce what I pay per month to some company is ok in my book.

[WASDEN]

Those ed passes are hardly free. Their cost is included in tuition/fees however you wanna look at it. Its kind of a scam if you think about it because the University forces all students to pitch in- even ones who can't directly use public transit. I guess the argument is that even if they don't use it, they still benefit from it (more available parking, less cars on the road theory). And a being a perpetual student is a sure path to financial ruin if your like me and have to foot your own bill. College tuition costs are the one thing ballooning faster than healthcare. You wouldn't believe how quickly interest has piled up on my student loans. Certainly not worth the "perk" of being able to ride TRAX for free now n then .

[livedowntown]

I for one am glad to be done with school - though I am still paying for the privilege of going.

[msbutah]

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

$75 will not get you anywhere in the system, a monthly premium pass (needed to ride FrontRunner) costs $180 /month.

$75 a month pays for everything but FrontRunner. I'd spend easily double that in gas alone for my 35mpg car driving back and forth from work (25mi each way), not to mention all the other things I use my pass for. So it happens that I ride the system end to end and get in under the wire with my pass. I know they're looking at doing distance based charging, which I'm guessing would raise my rate more than someone who rides it a few stops.

[stayinginformed]

At the University of Utah, a student who is taking 12 credits has to pay about $30 for the transit fee per semester. This amount goes up if they take more classes, and goes down with less ($14 for 1 credit). So if there are about 30,000 students during the academic year and 10,000 during the summer, that is about $2.1 million a year toward transit from the U. Though probably less than 30% of students and staff regularly ride public transit to and from the U.

[RC14]

This is off topic, but I think the Blue line should be extended south from SLcentral to 400 south then continue east to the UofU, creating a loop. This would allow the Frontrunner ridders a direct line to the U, and it would also create a better shuttle between the U and Down town.

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by WASDEN

Those ed passes are hardly free. Their cost is included in tuition/fees however you wanna look at it. Its kind of a scam if you think about it because the University forces all students to pitch in- even ones who can't directly use public transit. I guess the argument is that even if they don't use it, they still benefit from it (more available parking, less cars on the road theory). And a being a perpetual student is a sure path to financial ruin if your like me and have to foot your own bill. College tuition costs are the one thing ballooning faster than healthcare. You wouldn't believe how quickly interest has piled up on my student loans. Certainly not worth the "perk" of being able to ride TRAX for free now n then .

It's not unusual for a university to include charges for infrastructure (like stadiums) in tuition, even though not all university students use the infrastructure.

[John Martin]

Originally Posted by RC14

This is off topic, but I think the Blue line should be extended south from SLcentral to 400 south then continue east to the UofU, creating a loop. This would allow the Frontrunner ridders a direct line to the U, and it would also create a better shuttle between the U and Down town.

I agree that a direct route from frontrunner to the U would be better, if not essential in the near future. I've lost track of how many times I've heard U students the past week say they're opting to take a bus downtown instead of TRAX, because it's faster.

[(Eco)nomy_404]

Originally Posted by RC14

This is off topic, but I think the Blue line should be extended south from SLcentral to 400 south then continue east to the UofU, creating a loop. This would allow the Frontrunner ridders a direct line to the U, and it would also create a better shuttle between the U and Down town.

Someone going to the U from Ogden has to take three trains just to get there! I wonder if it would be more time efficient for them to take the new Frontrunner South when it opens to a transfer station to take the Red Line up to the U - that way they just take Frontrunner and the Red Line. That depends on if they would have to transfer from Frontrunner North to Frontrunner South - then it would be three trains and back-tracking! UTA couldn`t make it easy, could they? Instead of making Daybreak riders transfer once as well as the Ogden riders, they made it a straight shot for Daybreakers and threw another transfer on the Ogden riders. They should have waited for the Airport Line to open to combine with the University line. That would have made a straight line across the valley from the Airport to the U with a transfer point for the Ogden riders on North Temple. Result: Daybreakers: 1 transfer. Ogden riders: 1 transfer. Sandy riders: 1 transfer. Provo riders: 1 transfer. West Valley riders: 1 transfer. A lot easier if you ask me.

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

$75 will not get you anywhere in the system, a monthly premium pass (needed to ride FrontRunner) costs $180 /month.

But, I would guess that less than 30% of the people I see on FrontRunner daily actually pay full price for their passes. Most have ed passes or eco passes that are either subsidized or free.

I've heard that UTA is changing the way ed passes are paid for and distributed starting this semester, but until I graduated last spring, I got a premium pass (normally $180/month) absolutely free as a Weber State student.

If annual passes continue to be free for all students who are enrolled at least one semester a year, it would actually cost me less to register as a student in some useless online class and continue paying tuition than it would to pay UTA the $2,160 that it would cost for a premium pass over the course of a year.

UTA recently increased the fares for students. If you`re a student, you`ll pay:

Basic: $56.25/month (bus and Trax)
Premium: $135.00/month (Frontrunner)

You can buy semester passes for a little cheaper than the monthly rate. At my school - 4 month semesters, I pay $180 for the basic pass (which would be $225 at the monthly student rate over 4 months)

New fares:

http://www.rideuta.com/mc/?page=RidingUTA-PayingYourFare-DiscountPrograms

[CountyLemonade]

Originally Posted by (Eco)nomy_404

Someone going to the U from Ogden has to take three trains just to get there! I wonder if it would be more time efficient for them to take the new Frontrunner South when it opens to a transfer station to take the Red Line up to the U - that way they just take Frontrunner and the Red Line. That depends on if they would have to transfer from Frontrunner North to Frontrunner South - then it would be three trains and back-tracking! UTA couldn`t make it easy, could they? Instead of making Daybreak riders transfer once as well as the Ogden riders, they made it a straight shot for Daybreakers and threw another transfer on the Ogden riders. They should have waited for the Airport Line to open to combine with the University line. That would have made a straight line across the valley from the Airport to the U with a transfer point for the Ogden riders on North Temple. Result: Daybreakers: 1 transfer. Ogden riders: 1 transfer. Sandy riders: 1 transfer. Provo riders: 1 transfer. West Valley riders: 1 transfer. A lot easier if you ask me.

I don't see what the big deal with making a transfer is. People in extensively developed transit systems (e.g., New York, London) do it all the time. Granted, we don't have the frequency that those cities do, but still: a transfer at Courthouse between a blue line train from Central Station and a red line train from Daybreak takes three minutes on a weekday.

I think that, in the end, having the red line go down to Daybreak was a wiser choice than keeping a University-Central Station routing. If that was kept, we'd have four lines heading into downtown, and I doubt that would be very easy (or practical) to pull off. One might say to keep the existing routing and just add a University-Central line, but, to reiterate, the UTA's response to that is the 400 South/Main Street intersection isn't capable of handling such rail traffic.

Whatever the case may be, taking FrontRunner (which, by the way, will thankfully be one continuous line from Provo to Ogden) all the way to 5300 South and then taking the red line up to the U would add many more minutes to your commute than simply making a transfer in downtown.

[SLC4L]

Those are my sentiments as well. A friend on facebook keeps posting about how upset he is with UTA because of this, and it's starting to get annoying. I don't understand what is so difficult about going one station past the turn to the U and transfering. When it was just the two lines I had to do it at Gallivan Station all the time.

One of my favorite things about taking the train is that I don't have to worry about driving and I can just unwind for a good hour with a book. I guess it helps too that I'm the kind of person who isn't so bothered by time. Granted, there are long days I wish I could just get home as quickly as possible.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by SLC4L

Those are my sentiments as well. A friend on facebook keeps posting about how upset he is with UTA because of this, and it's starting to get annoying. I don't understand what is so difficult about going one station past the turn to the U and transfering. When it was just the two lines I had to do it at Gallivan Station all the time.

One of my favorite things about taking the train is that I don't have to worry about driving and I can just unwind for a good hour with a book. I guess it helps too that I'm the kind of person who isn't so bothered by time. Granted, there are long days I wish I could just get home as quickly as possible.

The problem is that it takes longer. If you live on the west side of town it was easy to hop on a train and go to smiths market place, trolly square, library square.... Having to wait for 2 trains to go such a short distance??? No thank you. I will just drive.

Same would hold true for those living on the east side of town or u campus that want to venture to city creek or gateway.

[(Eco)nomy_404]

Originally Posted by CountyLemonade

I don't see what the big deal with making a transfer is. People in extensively developed transit systems (e.g., New York, London) do it all the time. Granted, we don't have the frequency that those cities do, but still: a transfer at Courthouse between a blue line train from Central Station and a red line train from Daybreak takes three minutes on a weekday.

When I lived in San Francisco I never had to transfer to go downtown. The max number of transfers would have been 1 to any metro (BART) station. 4 of the 5 lines go down town.



I think UTA could have adopted this model. Having many trains on the same track is not as difficult to manage as it sounds. When I would catch a rush hour train in S.F. trains would come by every few minutes (sometimes with one right behind the next with a 1 min interval). That`s with 4 lines. I`m sure the current line in SLC could handle at least 3. Having only two lines reaching the "central hub" is rather pathetic.

Originally Posted by ajiuO

The problem is that it takes longer. If you live on the west side of town it was easy to hop on a train and go to smiths market place, trolly square, library square.... Having to wait for 2 trains to go such a short distance??? No thank you. I will just drive.

Same would hold true for those living on the east side of town or u campus that want to venture to city creek or gateway.

I completely agree. In down town SLC there are virtually no attractions/interest points beyond Gallavan Plaza. If you wanted to go from, say, the city Library to grab some lunch at CCC you would have to take 2 trains to go a few blocks. Or if you wanted to go from Temple Sq to Trolley Sq, same thing. Very short distances to have to take 2 trains. A University-Airport line would facilitate this problem in bringing people from virtually all of the down town interest points to another. It would go by Trolley Sq, Library Sq, Gallavan, CCC, Temple Sq, Salt Palace, Abravanel Hall, the Arena, Gateway, the Hub (if the line went through the hub rather than the N. Temple viaduct), then all the way to the airport . Much easier if you ask me.

[SLCdude]

BART operates below grade and does not affect automobile traffic the way at-grade light rail systems do. The problem with running too many trains downtown isn't the fact that UTA can't handle it, but because drivers would be annoyed by having to wait for train after train. As convenient as it would be for TRAX riders such as myself, They're probably hesitant to send out more trains fearing that it would scare drivers away. That's my guess.

I would, though, love to see an East-West TRAX line. It's just not mandatory because the transfer times are not bad. 5-10 minutes is all, depending on where you're going.

[ajiuO]

SF has both BART and MUNI. They both run under ground on the main part of market street but are actualy above ground quite a lot.

I'm glad someone brought SF up... They should be an example for any city.

There is no reason this can't be managed... Even if they need to add 2 blocks of track to take the stress of a single intersection... Which I don't think they would need to do.

[UTPlanner]

San Francisco is a wonderful city but you can hardly compare a transit system there with UTA's. SF is one of the most dense cities in this country: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density They are serving a much larger resident population and employment population. Of course they have a more efficient transit system. That being said I think it is wise to look to SF and other similar cities as examples of what SLC could be like someday in the future. I think a better comparison would be Calgary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-Train They have one of the busiest light rail systems in North America.

I am frequent user of TRAX. I do not find it difficult or frustrating to be forced to wait a few minutes to transfer trains. Yes, it would be easier if every train I boarded took me directly to my personal destination but that isn't probable. I just wish that UTA could find a way for afternoon rush hour trains to actually arrive on time.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

SF has both BART and MUNI. They both run under ground on the main part of market street but are actualy above ground quite a lot.

I'm glad someone brought SF up... They should be an example for any city.

There is no reason this can't be managed... Even if they need to add 2 blocks of track to take the stress of a single intersection... Which I don't think they would need to do.

It's not the tracks that can't handle the train traffic! It's the streets that the tracks cross that can't! And there's far more than just one intersection in any central business district!

DART in Dallas has similar problems as UTA in its downtown area because they run trains at grade on city streets. DART presently run four lines down one pair of tracks. That effects the headways between trains on every line. Each line can have headways of 10 minutes, not less, to maintain headways of 2.5 minutes where all four lines join. Half the time the cars, bikes, pedestrians, and trucks crossing the tracks get the right-of-way because of the interlocal agreement DART has with the city to run the trains on city streets. Without making slots for the other city traffic, DART could run more trains over the same tracks.

If DART wanted to run shorter headways between trains on some of the rail lines, one or more lines would have to be pulled from the central shared tracks downtown. DART is presently planning a second rail corridor downtown so that shorter headways in the future can be achieved. And that's the same reason why UTA doesn't run every line on the same tracks downtown - to keep shorter headways for every line.

San Francisco trains, BART & Muni, don't run in city streets downtown. It's a subway completely avoiding other city traffic on city streets. Dallas and Salt Lake would have to replace the tracks running within city streets downtown with an aerial guideway or subway before any fair direct comparisons on train operations could be made with San Francisco.

UTA could run all four lines over the same tracks in downtown Salt Lake City if they wanted, but that would require longer headways on each line. You got to keep other city traffic moving in a central business district. Who would want to work, live, or play in any downtown district if you couldn't even cross the street safely because there was a constant stream of trains?

[RC14]

Im on the westbound 200 south bus. The driver is telling people to call UTA and complain that there is no direct U to SLCentral train.