Metro Vancouver Road Infrastructure Discussion

[DKaz]

Mary Hill Bypass must not have been used much before then.

You can look at some photos in their 1998, 1999, and 2000 folders. 1998 - no HOV lanes yet. 1999 - HOV lanes, Hwy 1 is all freshly paved, no Coleman or Mary Hill Bypass onramps yet. 2000 - Coleman complete.

^^^ Hey look the original Empire Field!!!

[DKaz]

Some more historic gold... Hwy 91 and 91A not built yet. Queensborough Bridge connected (indirectly) with Westminster Hwy.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by 6042905

Highway 91 is not a "rural" highway as Metro-One called it lmao. Its a crucial urban highway connecting Surrey and New West with Richmond and Vancouver. It just happens to be surrounded by farms in some areas. But just beyond those farms are metro areas again.

I take that stretch of highway to work everyday from New West to Richmond and its an absolute nightmare. In rush hour its a parking lot and not unusual to see it backed up from the Alex Fraser or Queensborough Bridge all the way to the Knight Street interchange.

Also it has to be noted that the amount of truck traffic coming from the massive shipping/warehouse complex south of Westminster and Nelson road is insane. It'll be really interesting to see how much those trucks muck up HWY 91 which is already beyond capacity and should be upgraded. All truck traffic will be using the Nelson interchange because its not as bad as the 2 lane Westminster Road.

you must have read my post wrong because i never called highway 91 "rural." I have no idea where you got that.

Awesome pics guys. I remember using the Mary Hill before the direct on-ramp was built. It was a huge pain in the ass.

[go_leafs_go02]

Probably the biggest mistake of all-time in BC-MOT history.

Highway 91 and Highway 91A meeting at an intersection in 1986.



That lasted what? 1 year?

[officedweller]

BTW - does anyone know why they didn't build 91 on a more direct route between Alex Fraser Bridge and Queensborough Bridge?
Maybe because they had to fit 2 interchanges - one for Queensborough access and one for 91A?

Originally Posted by bardak

Hell they could fit two bus lanes if they got the same guy who designed the 99 one to do so here.

Yeah, that HOV lane is insanely narrow!

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Probably the biggest mistake of all-time in BC-MOT history.

Highway 91 and Highway 91A meeting at an intersection in 1986.



That lasted what? 1 year?

A little Deja vu happening right now with the SFPR. I still wish that the NFPR money that New West threw away was instead being transfered to this project to at least get 1 or 2 intersections back to interchanges.

We can only hope now that the conversion to interchanges doesn't take decades but instead is rather fast like many on the 91 after it opened.

[DKaz]

Arguably, how would the 91/91A interchange and Westminster Hwy interchange look like had they built these from the beginning? I don't think they would've had the foresight to say build the Westminster Hwy to 91EB flyover to separate Annacis Island and New Westminster bound drivers to prevent weaving. So by not building the interchange right away, we got a superior interchange in the end.

Now if only they'd fix 72nd Ave.

[DKaz]

"Mary Hill Bypass", 1982


1985. No counterflow lanes on the Pitt River Bridge, yet.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Mary Hill Bypass must not have been used much before then.

The bypass only became the preferred route for Lougheed Highway traffic after that project. The name MHB was not regionally well known before 1995.

Originally Posted by DKaz

You can look at some photos in their 1998, 1999, and 2000 folders. 1998 - no HOV lanes yet. 1999 - HOV lanes, Hwy 1 is all freshly paved, no Coleman or Mary Hill Bypass onramps yet. 2000 - Coleman complete.

That is true, but nevertheless, it was all part of the same project. It was a 3-year construction project nominally to add HOV lanes to Hwy 1 (the guise under which the NDP could justify spending money on a roadwork project). The project entailed much-needed Hwy 1 shoulders and lighting and signage, a fifth lane and siesmic retrofit of Port Mann, twinning Mary Hill Bypass and Barnet Hwy, improved access to MHB and United Blvd and Canada Way.

Before this project, this stretch of Hwy 1 had been basically unimproved since 1970.

Originally Posted by officedweller

BTW - does anyone know why they didn't build 91 on a more direct route between Alex Fraser Bridge and Queensborough Bridge?

Because the Alex Fraser Bridge does not actually lead to Queensborough, it leads to Richmond and Vancouver. The connection to Queensborough is a feeder. It just happened that the Queensborough connector was the only part that could be completed in time for Expo 86. The unfinished part was in Bill Vander Zalm's riding, so its completion was assured regardless. Rather than raze the community of Queensborough, the connector was built around the edge.

You may be interested to know that, when Alex Fraser Bridge opened, my uncle's daily commute to/from Abbotsford over the Port Mann became an hour shorter.... each way. And that was before 91 was finished.

Originally Posted by DKaz

Arguably, how would the 91/91A interchange and Westminster Hwy interchange look like had they built these from the beginning?

The interchange was meant to be built that way from the beginning. If you look at the aerial shots posted earlier today, you can clearly see pre-loading for the Annacis Island flyover was there from the beginning. They just ran out of time to build it before Expo 86, and then the Socred dynasty collapsed. Some of the traffic lights on 91 were built right on top of preloading.

As for the Westminster Hwy weave, this was also in the original budget and design. When the NDP government finally built it in the 90's, they were only spending money previously budgeted and unspent by the Socreds in the 80's. The NDP pointed this out during the project announcement (since the interchange was an aberration from their anti-road policies).

[xd_1771]

Aside from global air photos there were a whole bunch of other places where you could see construction photos - a notable one was BC Highways by Paul Keenleyside, however that site seems to have disappeared from the internet.

Those who've seen more Cassiar Tunnel construction photos would have noticed Renfrew extending up and northeast to meet Highway 1 in such a way that it would've cut right through where there is a park today.

Also, notice the rather short looking merge for the Highway 1 westbound onramp at Cape Horn. It seems the merges weren't very well designed throughout the highway (not just here) back then, and the 1998 projects improved them very much.

No interchanges on the upper levels highway then too:

Can't find any more old photos of that...

[go_leafs_go02]

BC is really lacking for highway pages or info. Ontario has tons of them of historical photos, highway history, maps..etc.

You can barely find anything of recent construction of the Coquihala, no pics of Highway 1 in the 1960s opening up..or anything.

Ontario has these two GREAT sites - however, if you've never been there it won't mean much to you.

www.thekingshighway.ca

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/index.html

Like this in 1956:



To THIS in 2004!

[xd_1771]

Paul Keenleyside's BC Highways site had an entire page or series of pages with Coquihalla construction pictures...

I really want to see what the Upper Levels Highway looked like, before they even 4-laned it! I've only read a description. Apparently the backups were ridiculous from the ferry terminal, extending well into North Vancouver from there
That and seeing Highway 1 signed as 401 and 99 as 499, but again there aren't any pictures or historical info....

There is one PDF document somewhere concerning the history of BC highways that I had found, but the info in it was rather limited.

[Metro-One]

I have always wanted to see more pics of highway 99 u/c.

Was it the first true freeway in BC? Did it open as a full freeway or were interchanges added later?

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I have always wanted to see more pics of highway 99 u/c.

Was it the first true freeway in BC? Did it open as a full freeway or were interchanges added later?

Yes, the section south from the OSB, GMT, and past Hwy 17 to just past the cow tunnel was opened in 1959. The remaining section to the U.S. border was opened up circa 1963/1964. For some strange reason the overpass over the GNR tracks was only completed shortly thereafter.

BTW, here's a link to 13 pics of Hwy 99 u/c in the South Surrey area from 1963:

http://www.surrey.ca/culture-recreation/2803.aspx

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Yes, the section south from the OSB, GMT, and past Hwy 17 to just past the cow tunnel was opened in 1959. The remaining section to the U.S. border was opened up circa 1963/1964. For some strange reason the overpass over the GNR tracks was only completed shortly thereafter.

BTW, here's a link to 13 pics of Hwy 99 u/c in the South Surrey area from 1963:

http://www.surrey.ca/culture-recreation/2803.aspx

interesting .... it was known at the time as the "Deas Island Throughway"

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Also, notice the rather short looking merge for the Highway 1 westbound onramp at Cape Horn. It seems the merges weren't very well designed throughout the highway (not just here) back then, and the 1998 projects improved them very much.

No interchanges on the upper levels highway then too:

Many older highways had short merges. Look at some of the onramps on the I-5.

I was able to dig this up for 1991, Lonsdale was already an interchange.



1995, Westview was still an intersection:


I don't know why I still recall Lynn Valley Road interchange being an intersection in 1993 with the interchange under construction. In Google Street View, the underpass looks like an older structure.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by DKaz

I don't know why I still recall Lynn Valley Road interchange being an intersection in 1993 with the interchange under construction. In Google Street View, the underpass looks like an older structure.

You are probably thinking of Lonsdale. That 1991 pic of the Lonsdale interchange would have been one of the first pics of it. It was built around 1990.

Stingray, thanks for those pics of early Hwy 99. That site also has an amazing shot of the old Port Mann Bridge under construction. Check out how hairy this looks, even from that distance you can see that the two halves of the structure are not lining up... I wonder if that is within acceptable tolerances, or if it is evidence of the foundation issues that supposedly occurred.



Source: http://www.surrey.ca/culture-recreation/2449.aspx

[6042905]

Needless to say moving from Ontario to BC was a real shock for me in terms of driving. One thing I've found especially puzzling is the use of speed bumps in the lower mainland... They're EVERYWHERE! Its absolutely ridiculous how many speed bumps you'll find in a single parking lot. They even put them on streets... STREETS!! Are they trying to make driving in BC as annoying as possible? Do they not trust the drivers here? Whats up with this speed bump phenomenon that seems to only be situated in Vancouver and surrounding areas?

[s211]

Originally Posted by 6042905

Needless to say moving from Ontario to BC was a real shock for me in terms of driving. One thing I've found especially puzzling is the use of speed bumps in the lower mainland... They're EVERYWHERE! Its absolutely ridiculous how many speed bumps you'll find in a single parking lot. They even put them on streets... STREETS!! Are they trying to make driving in BC as annoying as possible? Do they not trust the drivers here? Whats up with this speed bump phenomenon that seems to only be situated in Vancouver and surrounding areas?

"Traffic calming". It's anything but.

[Metro-One]

you guys would hate driving non freeway roads in American towns then. All residential / side streets actually have a lower standard speed limit than we do, and they are strictly enforced (i worked 3 summers in a row living in nevada, so I know, haha)

All the towns I was in were 25 miles per hour once you were off the freeway. And that is one thing i like about the American system, is the wide range in speed limits. There, freeways and major highways would have much higher speed limits (70m to 80m, only the coke and the island highway match these speeds in BC, both essentially being 70m) but the towns are very slow at 25m (at least that is how it goes in Nevada).

While here our major routes are 60 in the cities yet the local side roads are 50???? A difference of 10km! nuts.

I have no problem with the speed bumps and traffic calming on local roads, in fact i like it, but what we are missing in a few areas are decent high capacity routes so everyone doesn't have to drive through these traffic calmed areas. (again, hence why i want to keep the viaducts since much traffic calming is planned for the surface streets of hat area.)

PS - Thanks for all the pics! loved seeing the 99 under construction.