Halifax Stadium Discussion

[resetcbu1]

Originally Posted by Urban_Genius

Guys this is a pretty interesting discussion with Mark Cohon (Commish of the CFL) on Prime Time Sports late last week. Discussing about potential league expansion. Many cities are brought up including Halifax.

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/pts/PTS-2011-08-18-4-pm.mp3

Glad to see people from other areas with an interest in our lil city
thanx for the link

[q12]

Originally Posted by Urban_Genius

Guys this is a pretty interesting discussion with Mark Cohon (Commish of the CFL) on Prime Time Sports late last week. Discussing about potential league expansion. Many cities are brought up including Halifax.

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/pts/PTS-2011-08-18-4-pm.mp3

Great discussion. It really shows if we build the 25,000 seater the CFL is almost a guarantee.

Where do you find a list of podcasts? I was trying to find the NEWS 95.7 podcasts for maritime morning.

I found this one posted on another forum but can't find an index or list.

http://pmd.news957.com/podcasts/atlantic_talk_shows/RHshow/2011.08.03-15.00.00-EDIT.mp3

[resetcbu1]

not sure if I like how they big up moncton so much ? I belive halifax would consistantly be able to draw more people and not just a novilty like I think it was in moncton ,I doubt most people would travel that often for a team in moncton and 25,000 would be 20% of the pop. of that town...

[q12]

Originally Posted by resetcbu1

not sure if I like how they big up moncton so much ? I belive halifax would consistantly be able to draw more people and not just a novilty like I think it was in moncton ,I doubt most people would travel that often for a team in moncton and 25,000 would be 20% of the pop. of that town...

Don't worry they still haven't sold out September's game and its not even a capacity of 25,000. https://tickets.moncton.ca/Online/seatSe...0CCB38A5&brand=Sports&sessionlanguage=EN

The Moncton talk is more of a trying to make Halifax jealous so that it gets off it's and builds a stadium (Which seems to be working along with stealing the Uteck Bowl).

[Antigonish]

I've said it once already, and I'll say it again. From my (somewhat brief) playing career at SMU they do not want to play off campus. I admire Ms. Uteck a lot but she is only pushing this project in the 10,000 seat range for a quick guarentee that Halifax regains the Uteck bowl asap.

I don't think anybody will be happy if this 10,000 seat shitter with a track around it with bench seats etc. will actually benefit or satisfy any group that needs stadia in the first place.

Lets hope Peter Kelly sticks to his guns and gets us the apropriate facility that we need because he knows he can get another re-election, which I would happily accept (fickle I know haha).

[Empire]

Originally Posted by resetcbu1

not sure if I like how they big up moncton so much ? I belive halifax would consistantly be able to draw more people and not just a novilty like I think it was in moncton ,I doubt most people would travel that often for a team in moncton and 25,000 would be 20% of the pop. of that town...

I'm not sure if anyone did a poll of the demographic of last years Touchdown Atlantic ticket sales but it wouldn't surprise me if all of the purported market from St. John, Charlottetown, Bathurst, Freddie etc. was actually mostly from Halifax.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by someone123

My impression is that the 25,000 or so seat basic stadium could be useful for lots of things, like the concerts that seem to attract around 20,000-50,000 people and do not fit into the Metro Centre. Even if Halifax never gets a CFL team (highly unlikely if a suitable stadium is built) a 25,000 seat stadium would probably be worth the moderate cost, and in the future it could be expanded if necessary.

It's very important to stress that this project is NOT like the gold-plated stadiums costing hundreds of millions and could be a great piece of public infrastructure for the city right now, regardless of what happens with the CFL and other pro sports.

The anti-stadium crowd will try to define this as an elaborate and far-fetched project in an attempt to cause it to die on the table. That's how these things work.

I completely agree with your analysis.

There is the right stadium design at the right price that will get the majority of people excited. On the other hand, I think that there is a fairly large portion of people who are sitting on the fence. These people will probably stop supporting a stadium if the price goes too high.

As an analogy, I could probably afford a Lexus if I wanted to spend a significant amount of my income on a car, however, I am very happy with a Toyota Corolla - it is a decent car and I don't have to stretch my budget to own it. I feel the same way about an HRM stadium - if it can be built economically then it makes a lot of sense. However, once it becomes an extravagant, expensive design then it can no longer be justified.

I also agree with Mayor Kelly's logic - an economical stadium can be built for $1,200 - $2,200 per seat (I prefer the $2,200 dollar figure). But it should be larger than 10,000 permanent seats.

[wespidel]

It`s looks like an eyesore, unless other levels of govt., the Feds and Dexter govt. steps up at the plate and is willing to commit to a major stadium in Halifax which would cost 150 million. So it looks like for sure Halifax will build a 10 thousand permanent seat tiny little diny stadium for Saint Marys!

[wespidel]

There does not seem to be the will to build a bigger stadium in Halifax and there are no levels of govt. stepping up right now.

150 million is the cost of a modern CFL 25 thousand permanent seat stadium today, but the question is for good architect and engineer, what can be build for 90 to 100 million in a CFL ready model stadium today?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by wespidel

There does not seem to be the will to build a bigger stadium in Halifax and there are no levels of govt. stepping up right now.

150 million is the cost of a modern CFL 25 thousand permanent seat stadium today, but the question is for good architect and engineer, what can be build for 90 to 100 million in a CFL ready model stadium today?

I disagree - it is not a lack of will, it is a lack of desire. I believe in an economical stadium that the HRM can afford. You believe in a $150 million dollar stadium that won't, and shouldn't happen in the HRM. The HRM and Nova Scotia doesn't have the money to waste on an extravagant stadium.

However, I would get very excited about a 20,000 - 25,000 seat permanent stadium that is built at a reasonable price - that is possible (it has been done many times throughout North America).



PS: The numbers being discussed are $30 million to $60 million. You keep inflating it. Where did $90 million to $100 million come from? Unless someone with very deep pockets steps forward then a $90 million dollar stadium probably won't be built either. Have you forgotten that just two weeks ago that it was being reported that Premier Dexter won't support a stadium? Defense Minister MacKay has stated that a stadium will only proceed with Premier Dexter's support. A majority of people probably won't support a $90 million dollar stadium.

You continue to misrepresent the issue by stating that a stadium for Saint Marys is being pursued by the HRM, even though most of us realize that it isn't. SMU is considering a renovated stadium on their campus, HRM is considering a 10,000 seat or larger stadium elsewhere. Your misrepresentation of the facts indicates that you are trying to deceive people - what is your purpose?

[wespidel]

It`s not that I believe in a 150 million dollar stadium, it is what a 25 thousand permanent seat stadium with all the necessary features costs today. I never once said Halifax should build a 150 million dollar stadium, which actually they would have built by in the CommonWealth Games stadum, which would have been nice. I think we all would like to see Halifax build a 150 million dollar stadium, but I believe 90 to 100 million is more realistic, until you compare Dexter`s govt. wanting to spend 90 million dollars or more on LED lights than 150 million for a stadium becomes more of a norm.

[wespidel]

(Re: last post: Sorry meant to type by 2014.....)




Mickey mouse equals mickey mouse!

Fenwick you are totally wrong and you don`t even live here. So how do you know? The majority of people in Halifax and in the region do not want a 10 thousand permanent seat stadium built. Do you get that! Those are the facts, so stop trying to make up things that aren`t true. All the people that posted comments at the stadium public meetings wanted a 25 to 30 thousand permanent seat stadium built and not one posted they wanted a mickey mouse 10 thousand permanent seat stadium built. People do not want a 10 thousand permanent seat stadium built period! Only Sue Uteck, the steering committee Vice Chair who`s in bed with Saint Marys and Soccer NS, want their mickey mouse Sue Uteck Special built, only to replace Saint Marys defunked stadium which they have all admitted publicly. So this is what this has been, all from the beginning and yes poeple are upset because we were all mislead and snowed with their ridiculous 375 thousand dollar stadium study which became a joke and big lie because they had no will and no interest in building a real stadium from the start because of the need to replace Saint Marys dump and their lack of vision!

I also realize that you probably can build a CFL model stadium today for 90 to 100 million, but it will be not the CFL model that the CFL prefers in the 21st century but yes more like Montreal`s newly expanded facility. As well BMO field`s 20,500 permanent seat modestly priced 68 million dollar stadium, that was built in 2007, is not a CFL model. But I believe BMO`S stadium for 90 to 100 million which was confirmed to me by experts in the field, can be modified and expanded with more skyboxes, etc. and with a upper deck expansion, which would actually qualify for a CFL standard model today. You can not build a somewhat modern well made decent stadium today, with all the necessary features inorder to be viable, for under 90 million dollar and those are the facts! The days of building a 25 to 30 thousand seat stadium without all the amenities are over! Halifax and the province needs to educate themselves on stadiums being built today and have some real vision and treat the stadium project like any other major project, that they are and have spent 100`s of millions on. When you think small, you stay small!

Why is Halifax the only major city in Canada building such a small mickey mouse stadium when no other major city in Canada did, if I`m so wrong!

[wespidel]

Halifax was recently talking about replacing the Halifax Metro Centre with a280 million dollar indoor stadium and you tell me they can`t afford to spend anymore than 30 to 60 million dollars on an inadequate outdoor stadium. This doesn`t make any sense at all, so your point is not valid!

[halifaxboyns]

I think you need to look at what you wrote to answer your own question:

Originally Posted by wespidel

Halifax was recently talking about replacing the Halifax Metro Centre with a280 million dollar indoor stadium and you tell me they can`t afford to spend anymore than 30 to 60 million dollars on an inadequate outdoor stadium. This doesn`t make any sense at all, so your point is not valid!

Halifax talked about it. They didn't approve it; they didn't find money for it; they talked about it. There is a a huge difference between talking about something and then finding the $ and voting to approve funding and the shovels hitting the ground.

Plus you keep mentioning the majority of HRM residents - where are you getting this from? Was there a pole that this forum wasn't aware of?

Let's be honest, both you and Fenwick's numbers are just assumptions. Until council votes, the cost could range from 0 (no stadium) to anywhere (depending on the size), if you want to be totally realistic about it.

Even if HRM went totally huge and built something that was in the 50,000 seat range - there is no guarentee that a team would come here. Even if it did; would it fill such a stadium regularly? Can we be sure of this? Can we be sure it would fill a 25,000 seat stadium?

We've still not heard from the business community about their involvement or will to be involved. The only thing on the money front we've heard is Dexter being open to the stadium funding (subject to a business case). Nothing is certain...nothing is edged in stone here. So let's all calm down and see where this goes...

[wespidel]

My point Halifaxboyns, is that if Halifax were to build a new Metro Centre, they would be spending at least 280 million so why is a stadium any different. Why build a 10 thousand permanent seat stadium, in a city the size of Halifax! Well we all know why and that is because Saint Marys needs it and it barely qualifies for FIFA and that in my opinion is wrong and an insult to our city!

I appreciate your opinion but the majority people in Halifax and in the region that have any vision all want a bigger and better stadium built and do not want a tiny little dinky 10 thousand permanent seat stadium. I have talked to a lot of people in the city and in the region and so have these people and all are on the same page and why wouldn`t they be!

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

We've still not heard from the business community about their involvement or will to be involved. The only thing on the money front we've heard is Dexter being open to the stadium funding (subject to a business case). Nothing is certain...nothing is edged in stone here. So let's all calm down and see where this goes...

If it were me at the helm of this ship, my take on this next stage would be the following:

There appears to be a reasonable case for a stadium with roughly 14,000 permanent seats, that is expandable on both a temporary and permanent basis. SMU can simply go ahead with their own renovation plans for a small on-campus stadium that will be used to host regular season games and practices.

This existing case does not assume an anchor tenant, but at the 14,000 seat level would tentatively run deficits that are reasonable by comparison to other forms of civic infrastructure such as libraries and hockey rinks, which also do not break even, and this needs to be clearly articulated to the voting public.

The case for a stadium with something more like 25,000 permanent seats would require an anchor tenant, and given that there has been utter silence from the business community (at least as far as we know), we cannot assume that there is an existing owner/ownership group out there.

Therefore, we will only at this time commit public funds to a 14,000 seat (but expandable) stadium. HOWEVER, if such a potential interested ownership group wants to step forward know and leverage investment by combining construction costs, then we could move forward in one step and build a 25,000 stadium.

Basically, rather than building a larger stadium for a theoretical team and hoping they will come, IT IS TIME FOR A POTENTIAL CFL OWNERSHIP GROUP TO STEP FORWARD AND INDICATE A WILLINGNESS. If no one is willing to do so... well... I think that says something about the potential for having a team here (although personally I do think that, if pushed, such a potential owner(s) would come forward).


Just my two cents, and yes that was a long rambling opinion piece Reality Bites or Reality Check or whatever your name is... suck on it.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by wespidel

My point Halifaxboyns, is that if Halifax were to build a new Metro Centre, they would be spending at least 280 million so why is a stadium any different. Why build a 10 thousand permanent seat stadium, in a city the size of Halifax! Well we all know why and that is because Saint Marys needs it and it barely qualifies for FIFA and that in my opinion is wrong and an insult to our city!

I appreciate your opinion but the majority people in Halifax and in the region that have any vision all want a bigger and better stadium built and do not want a tiny little dinky 10 thousand permanent seat stadium. I have talked to a lot of people in the city and in the region and so have these people and all are on the same page and why wouldn`t they be!

You're a bit obsessed with this SMU conspiracy... if you read the consultant's report they said absolutely explicitly that SMU was ruled out as a site, because it is impossible to build a stadium that is expandable even temporarily on the SMU site, and therefore SMU will have to renovate on their own. There are two people I have heard who keep bring up SMU, and that is you and Uteck!

I respect the fact that you have very strong opinions on the stadium subject, but the SMU thing just seems like a bee in your bonnet that you need to let go of.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by wespidel

My point Halifaxboyns, is that if Halifax were to build a new Metro Centre, they would be spending at least 280 million so why is a stadium any different. Why build a 10 thousand permanent seat stadium, in a city the size of Halifax! Well we all know why and that is because Saint Marys needs it and it barely qualifies for FIFA and that in my opinion is wrong and an insult to our city!

I appreciate your opinion but the majority people in Halifax and in the region that have any vision all want a bigger and better stadium built and do not want a tiny little dinky 10 thousand permanent seat stadium. I have talked to a lot of people in the city and in the region and so have these people and all are on the same page and why wouldn`t they be!

I'm not saying the stadium is any different, go back and read my words. There is a huge difference between talking and building. There is no MC2 under construction. I also agree with beyeas - you need to let the whole SMU thing go. It was ruled out because it couldn't be much bigger.

To also insinuate that people who don't agree with your opinion 'lack vision' is just pure bull. I'm not saying I want a 10,000 stadium and if you go back through this thread you'll find I've been firmly in the realm of 25,000 seats with expansion capabilities. But what I'm not about is throwing up a stadium without thinking about the future.

I think beyeas says it best:

Originally Posted by beyeas

The case for a stadium with something more like 25,000 permanent seats would require an anchor tenant, and given that there has been utter silence from the business community (at least as far as we know), we cannot assume that there is an existing owner/ownership group out there.
Therefore, we will only at this time commit public funds to a 14,000 seat (but expandable) stadium. HOWEVER, if such a potential interested ownership group wants to step forward know and leverage investment by combining construction costs, then we could move forward in one step and build a 25,000 stadium.
Basically, rather than building a larger stadium for a theoretical team and hoping they will come, IT IS TIME FOR A POTENTIAL CFL OWNERSHIP GROUP TO STEP FORWARD AND INDICATE A WILLINGNESS. If no one is willing to do so... well... I think that says something about the potential for having a team here (although personally I do think that, if pushed, such a potential owner(s) would come forward).

I'm saying basically the same thing: If we build a HUGE stadium without knowing for certain a team will be coming to occupy the thing, we're setting ourselves up for failure out of the gate. Now is the time for the business community and the people who wanted a team in Halifax to step up and put their money where their mouth is.

We have to be very careful about how we proceed because while there is clear support (based on the last vote) that can change and if this thing becomes a huge money pit; we cut off our nose to spite our faces for the next major piece of recreational infrastructure that would be required in a growing city.

Without knowing where the $ is coming from (meaning: Will there be any sponsorship/interest from the private sector to set up a team or buy naming rights, etc. or what levels of government can put up $ to reduce the HRM burden); the size of the stadium is irrelevant. There are a lot of questions that still need to be answered before you reach the point of talking about size. Size will dictate cost, but if you have zero $ committments, size won't matter because you'll have zero $ to work with.

[c-way-dude]

Is it possible that Mayor Kelly's mystery investors are already in secret negotiations with CFL Commissioner Cohon, and the reason they haven't gone public is that they don't want to risk negative pr should negotiations fail? It wouldn't make sense to invest in a stadium without a guaranteed franchise, so it would be plausible that they would try to get a conditional franchise, like Ottawa did, first.
Hopefully, even if no agreement could be reached, Halifax would still build a 10-14k expandable facility that could satisfy the market and be easily expanded should someone acquire a CFL franchise in the future.

[MaritimeCFLFan]

Originally Posted by c-way-dude

Is it possible that Mayor Kelly's mystery investors are already in secret negotiations with CFL Commissioner Cohon, and the reason they haven't gone public is that they don't want to risk negative pr should negotiations fail?
If they could not reach an agreement with the league, there obviously would be no reason for them to invest in a stadium. Halifax would hopefully still build the 10-14k expandable stadium, in hope of someone being able to acquire a franchise at some point in the future.

It is possible. However if there already are private investors who have been talking with Mark Cohon then another reason to keep it all hush hush for now is that the government at all levels will have a hard time justifying the use of any $ that in the end will help to build a stadium with the long term purpose of being used to house a professional sports team (CFL). I feel the only way the Feds especially can contribute $ is if it appears to be used in the building of a stadium for an International Sporting Event (FIFA). It would be very difficult for the Feds to come out and say they would spend a single penny towards a stadium for future use by the CFL after they have already told Quebec City they won't contribute to their new NHL ready rink. I suspect that there is indeed alot going on behind closed doors at this point but thats just my opinion.