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  #2561  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2011, 6:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dmintz View Post
on a different note-
In the last two weeks both 6th avenue and alameda were resurfaced. Neither road seemed to be in particularly rough shape. I'm wondering who makes the decision on which roads to work on and where the money comes from, city or state? With funding so tight these days it seems that transportation funds should be better spent.
I think you are mistaken. It's a common misconception with the public that roads (and any other infrastructure for that matter) do not need maintenance/upkeep until they need to be replaced. It goes with the general American misconception that once you pay for something, you're done paying for it. Regular resurfacing (or any number of other pavement treatments) is usually cheaper in the long run than waiting for a total re-build. (It's one reason you see CDOT building concrete highways these days, and even some cities doing it - misguided policy makes it easier for them to pay more upfront in capital costs to save on ongoing costs, even if the life-cycle cost is higher.) I don't know what sort of pavement management system Denver, in particular, uses, but I am sure it includes periodic evaluation of roadway condition (pavement condition index - PCI), coordination (as best as possible) with other utility improvements, and then incorporation into O&M budgets, or the longer-range CIP (note: in Denver, street maintenance comes out of the capital improvement fund, even if not a designated capital improvement per se). But yeah, we even managed that level of "sophistication" in Iraq, minus the actual budget for the O&M bit...

Speaking of which, Denver's Capital Improvement Plans are all online, at least in broad terms - http://www.denvergov.org/budget/CapitalImprovementsPlan/tabid/429240/Default.aspx I am sure if you wanted, public works could provide you detailed project descriptions, bills of quantities, and estimates for every project.

O&M is one area where I feel particularly strongly that less public involvement can be better. Because untrained taxpayers come out of the gates firing, "With funding so tight these days it seems that transportation funds should be better spent." Your comment is exactly why our infrastructure is deteriorating. It's not just due to a lack of funding overall. A city councilperson hears what you said, and they immediately shift their support from common sense projects to splashy ones.

EDIT: If you're interested, CU offers a graduate civil engineering program in life-cycle engineering...

EDIT2: I apologize for tone. I am pissy today, but not at anybody here.

Last edited by bunt_q; Aug 18, 2011 at 7:08 PM.
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  #2562  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2011, 6:52 PM
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^Depends on the road and whether it's maintained by CDOT or the a local authority.

But, they probably repaved Sixth to hide another hole that appeared in the deck from deferred maintenance.
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  #2563  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2011, 8:44 PM
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Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
. With streetcar funding being somewhat of a pipedream it would be nice to see the existing transit land be better utilized and turned into semi-separated BRT lane at least from DT to the Broadway Station.
The far right lanes of both Broadway and Lincoln are already reserved for busses and right turns only during peak hours. Still, I think a lot more could be done on Broadway. I think a bike-oriented option, whether it be a lane or a cycle track, would be a great idea for Broadway. The demographic that hangs out on Broadway is already very friendly towards bikes.
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  #2564  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2011, 1:36 AM
Octavian Octavian is offline
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RTD Commuter Rail Vehicle:



I like them better silver than painted.
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  #2565  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2011, 2:18 AM
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Broadway is an opportunity waiting to happen. I sent some time in the area around 1st last week, and it's developing into a great culture hub in Denver. With the Hi Dive, El Diablo, and all the eclectic shops in that stretch it's the home of Denver's hipster culture, perfect for window shopping pedestrians. But when there's five lanes of automobiles going 35 MPH that can never have to stop at the appropriately timed lights, it may as well be a freeway. So much could be done to that corridor, whether it be bike lanes, a streetcar, and/or expanded sidewalks.
Now the RTD people might not like this idea, but, with the economy having long term problems, IMO a cheap solution to help Broadway develope would be a loop bus, between Civic Street Station and Broadway Station, following the one ways of Broadway and Lincoln. Individualize it in some way- make it as distinct as the Mall Buses, run it frequent and make it cheap- say $1.00. Work with Merchants to have parking free curbside stops perhaps 2 or 3 bus lengths long. Do the same with resident fronts on Lincoln south of Speer. Maybe call it a Baby Zero (not the Mitsubishi one either LOL) This would not be an express- but a very frequent service bus. Integrate this with the Circulator. Run it through bar rush, and, have burly drivers. I am not sure a dedicated lane is necessary, except during hours along the rush hour Broadway lane already there. The idea would not be the speed, but, the locality of the stops, frequency, and extended hours. Empty the bus out at both Broadway and Civic Strieet Station.

We might be too violent right now to do this, but this would be a small, cheap, first step. Say $10 million.
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Good read on relationship between increasing number of freeway lanes and traffic

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  #2566  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2011, 4:55 PM
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you basically just described one of the original concepts for the second DT circulator...instad, it will loop around the art museum and back to 18/19th...broadway /lincoln to the 225 station and a 19th/20th coupling would be a much better route.
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  #2567  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2011, 7:43 PM
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The mountain biking trails near my home has a cool sign talking about the old rail line connecting Denver to Boulder. I like this route a lot better than the plans for the NW Rail Line. If only this infrastructure still existed today…

Here is a picture taken with my iPhone.



Last edited by taylor23; Jan 11, 2012 at 5:19 PM.
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  #2568  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2011, 7:54 PM
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Originally Posted by taylor23 View Post
The mountain biking trails near my home has a cool sign talking about the old rail line connecting Denver to Boulder. I like this route a lot better than the plans for the NW Rail Line. If only this infrastructure still existed today…

Here is a picture taken with my iPhone.


Never mind. Guess I have no idea how you post images on here.

Finally figured out what I was doing wrong..

Last edited by taylor23; Jan 11, 2012 at 5:25 PM.
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  #2569  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2011, 12:40 AM
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<wrong thread>
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  #2570  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2011, 2:19 AM
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Originally Posted by bcp View Post
you basically just described one of the original concepts for the second DT circulator...instad, it will loop around the art museum and back to 18/19th...broadway /lincoln to the 225 station and a 19th/20th coupling would be a much better route.
Sometimes I suspect that the Triangle Group- Broadway X Colfax tends to view Denver as just that. The Super Triangle. That little loop south of the Art Museum is almost like a baptism into being part of that Super Triangle (the Capitol, the Library, the Art Museum- you know the honorary members).

Actually, high rises in the 20 story range would work well on Broadway anywhere north of Mississippi. I know of few other roads in Denver that are currently anchored better to public transportation than Broadway from Civic Station South to the Broadway Light Rail Station, excepting 16th, of course, and the developing routes between DUS Underground and Civic Station. Outside of DUS, the Broadway Street Station has the best connections with public transit in Denver, IMO. The Corridor light rail segment between Broadway and Osage is as fast as any light rail in the US so south bound shuttles covering the segment south of 6th could move passengers who wanted to go to downtown (from about Glendale north in Downtown from say south of 6th on Broadway) as quick as the 0 bus during morning rush. Likewise this would be true going north on Lincoln in the evening rush. An added benefit of course, would be DU, the Tech Center, etc.

Build this in addition to what is being planned (no one changes RTD's mind once thousands of hours of work on environmental statements, holding public meetings, etc., are completed. Once settled, they know the ANSWERS, whether the problems to be answered are answered<this is a political animal, after all> So, no changes in what is announced period).

To me, this stretch of Broadway would be far easier (cheaper, quicker etc) in which to trigger developement in than East Colfax (where new very local public bus transport should be developed by 2015-16 that would focus on becoming feeder lines into the DIA commuter stations).
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Good read on relationship between increasing number of freeway lanes and traffic

http://www.vtpi.org/gentraf.pdf
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  #2571  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2011, 9:13 PM
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Will the branding and equipment for the downtown circulator be the same as regular RTD buses or the free mall ride? Will they be branded differently? It is certainly a unique service.
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  #2572  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2011, 3:23 AM
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Will the branding and equipment for the downtown circulator be the same as regular RTD buses or the free mall ride? Will they be branded differently? It is certainly a unique service.
I think RTD needs to run unique buses on the Circulator (just as it should on a southern equivalent on Broadway). Maybe a different model of Siemens bus, or even a bus from a competitor, G*d forbid.

Sometimes the predominence of Siemens equipment makes me wonder" who is sleeping with who..."

Contrary to what appears to be group thought, there are other excellent light and bus manufacturers (I am GLAD that the DIA link will built around another transportation vendor's product. While Siemens makes great products, there are very capable alternatives.)
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Good read on relationship between increasing number of freeway lanes and traffic

http://www.vtpi.org/gentraf.pdf
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  #2573  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2011, 6:32 AM
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What about just a different bus livery?

Or, for that matter, how about a new livery for RTD systemwide? The mostly white busses and LRTs with the narrow blue stripe isn't that interesting from a branding standpoint. But I digress...
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  #2574  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2011, 9:25 AM
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My impression is that RTD would be purchasing the same new buses for the 18th/19th street circulator, as it plans to purchase for the new 16th Street mall bus fleet. However, it was also my impression, that it would be branded slightly different, from the 16th Street mall buses and also run a different schedule.
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  #2575  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2011, 12:48 AM
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I agree that RTD needs rebranding. The system looks somewhat antiquated (e.g., multi-colored stripes) when you compare it to the newer designs for SF Muni, LA Metro, SoundTransit, Boston T etc. With the onset of Fastracks, it would be a great opportunity to give the existing and new light rail and commuter rail trains (and BRT busses) a more sleek unified look for RTD. Keep the RTD logo, but change up the colors, get rid of the old stripping etc.

I also agree that the commuter rail lines would not necessarily have to be painted thoroughly. I like the silver finish as it reminds me of the NYC subway, SEPTA, the "L" and other like systems. For the record, I also like the updated station signage at the new Union Station stop and the new signs at the Broadway station. I have a feeling it will come together well.
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  #2576  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2011, 9:03 PM
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According to the final Downtown Circulator report by RTD, the vehicle recommended is:

Vehicle: NABI Compo Bus
Length: 45 feet
Drive System: Diesel‐Electric Hybrid
Height: Low‐floor
Doors: Two
Seating: Forward‐facing in rear, centerfacing
along left side
Bike racks: Included
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  #2577  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2011, 2:17 PM
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  #2578  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2011, 8:29 PM
DownhomeDenver DownhomeDenver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmintz View Post
on a different note-
In the last two weeks both 6th avenue and alameda were resurfaced. Neither road seemed to be in particularly rough shape. I'm wondering who makes the decision on which roads to work on and where the money comes from, city or state? With funding so tight these days it seems that transportation funds should be better spent.
You must not get out much or perhaps you ride your bike everywhere...but Alameda was a freaking disaster especially from Downing to University. It was about time that it was resurfaced. Many Denver roads are in dire need of repair and resurface. Note how I didn't say expansion. Jolly good thanks!
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  #2579  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2011, 10:31 PM
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While we're on the subject of transportation... there's a whole lot of cutting here.

RTD staff gets specific in proposing $12 million in bus and light-rail service cuts
By Jeffrey Leib
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_18748954

RTD's route-planning staff has recommended $12.1 million in bus and light-rail service cuts for January as part of the effort to eliminate deficits in the agency's operating budget.

At a Tuesday night session of the Regional Transportation District board of directors, staffers proposed service reductions that include elimination of at about 20 bus routes, changes to scores of other routes, and light-rail cutbacks that should result in nearly $1 million in annual savings on RTD's rail system.

For months, RTD officials have warned about budget deficits totaling tens of millions of dollars unless the agency embraces the twin strategy of reducing costs and increasing revenues.

The $12 million "adjustment" to service is being proposed to "right-size" RTD and "create long-term fiscal sustainability" at the agency, said Bruce Abel, assistant general manager for bus operations.

In addition to service reductions, RTD's five-year strategic budget plan also includes anticipated 10 percent across-the-board fare increases scheduled for 2014 and 2017.

The proposal to cut non-productive or marginally productive routes that staffers presented to board members on Tuesday represents the deepest service reduction in decades at RTD, said agency General Manager Phil Washington.

"This will make us fiscally sound for the next four or five years," Washington said.

He emphasized that the service cuts can be accomplished without layoffs among RTD workers.

The plan, if adopted by the board, would require about 110 fewer bus operators, but such a reduction can be achieved through normal attrition among drivers, and by shifting some bus operators to RTD's new West Corridor light-rail line, Washington said.

The West line is due to open in May 2013, but training of light-rail operators for the line is expected to begin next year.

Abel, in presenting the plan to board members, said staffers aimed to be "surgical" in their approach as they weighed routes for cuts.

But the scope of the plan suggests it is major surgery.

Routes slated for elimination in the staff proposal include the Route 2 on East 1st Avenue, the 44Limited on West 44th Avenue, the 60 on South Pierce Street, the 79 on East Florida Avenue, the 104 Crosstown on 104th Avenue, and the 121L on Peoria Street.

Staffers presented data showing these and other routes generally ranking as among RTD's least productive, as measured by the relatively low number of boardings and the high subsidy per boarding.

The staff recommendation also calls for elimination of six express bus routes — the 31x, 48x, 53x, 63x, 80x and 93x; the DD regional route between Boulder and the largely defunct medical campus at Colorado Boulevard and East 9th Avenue in Denver; and the Aurora, Parker and Superior call-n-Ride routes.

More than 50 bus routes are scheduled for service adjustments that include eliminating early morning or late night runs in some cases, or bumping 10-minute frequencies to every 15 minutes, or 15-minute service to every 30 minutes.

The proposal calls for RTD to no longer operate C line light-rail service between the I-25/Broadway station and Union Station in the off-peak period from around 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. on weekdays, and similarly eliminate off-peak F line service between the Lincoln station and downtown Denver.

Some of the service will be picked up by expanded an expanded E line operation.

Rail riders will be able to transfer at the Broadway/I-25 station to other trains, but the proposed cuts may mean longer travel times for some passengers. Other cuts are slated for weekend rail service.

RTD plans to hold public hearings in late September and early October throughout the metro area on the proposed service reductions.

The board of directors will vote Oct. 25 on the final service plan and cuts will go into effect Jan. 8.

In the past, when more modest service reductions were proposed to RTD's board, it was common for some directors to resist cuts to service in their districts.

In many cases, directors were successful in mobilizing public support for overturning staff recommendations on cuts, even if it meant the retention of routes with low ridership and high subsidization.

One goal of a recent RTD task force that crafted a plan for "long range fiscal sustainability" was to optimize service "emphasizing ridership cost-efficiency."

RTD Director John Tayer, of Boulder, was chair of the fiscal sustainability task force and after the service-reduction plan was presented Tuesday night, Tayer called it the "most powerful rationale for making (RTD's) revenue stream more sustainable."

Still, as a sign of how difficult cost-cutting is when it gets close to home, Tayer also questioned RTD staffers on the wisdom of cutting the peak-period frequency on the Skip bus route in Boulder to every 10 minutes from the current 7-minute frequency.

That three-minute alteration to service would impact 2,500 boardings each weekday and save the agency about $138,000 a year, RTD said.

Jeffrey Leib: 303-954-1645 or [email protected]
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  #2580  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2011, 2:37 AM
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Originally Posted by bunt_q View Post
While we're on the subject of transportation... there's a whole lot of cutting here.

RTD staff gets specific in proposing $12 million in bus and light-rail service cuts
By Jeffrey Leib
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_18748954

RTD's route-planning staff has recommended $12.1 million in bus and light-rail service cuts for January as part of the effort to eliminate deficits in the agency's operating budget.

At a Tuesday night session of the Regional Transportation District board of directors, staffers proposed service reductions that include elimination of at about 20 bus routes, changes to scores of other routes, and light-rail cutbacks that should result in nearly $1 million in annual savings on RTD's rail system.

For months, RTD officials have warned about budget deficits totaling tens of millions of dollars unless the agency embraces the twin strategy of reducing costs and increasing revenues.

The $12 million "adjustment" to service is being proposed to "right-size" RTD and "create long-term fiscal sustainability" at the agency, said Bruce Abel, assistant general manager for bus operations.

In addition to service reductions, RTD's five-year strategic budget plan also includes anticipated 10 percent across-the-board fare increases scheduled for 2014 and 2017.

The proposal to cut non-productive or marginally productive routes that staffers presented to board members on Tuesday represents the deepest service reduction in decades at RTD, said agency General Manager Phil Washington.

"This will make us fiscally sound for the next four or five years," Washington said.

He emphasized that the service cuts can be accomplished without layoffs among RTD workers.

The plan, if adopted by the board, would require about 110 fewer bus operators, but such a reduction can be achieved through normal attrition among drivers, and by shifting some bus operators to RTD's new West Corridor light-rail line, Washington said.

The West line is due to open in May 2013, but training of light-rail operators for the line is expected to begin next year.

Abel, in presenting the plan to board members, said staffers aimed to be "surgical" in their approach as they weighed routes for cuts.

But the scope of the plan suggests it is major surgery.

Routes slated for elimination in the staff proposal include the Route 2 on East 1st Avenue, the 44Limited on West 44th Avenue, the 60 on South Pierce Street, the 79 on East Florida Avenue, the 104 Crosstown on 104th Avenue, and the 121L on Peoria Street.

Staffers presented data showing these and other routes generally ranking as among RTD's least productive, as measured by the relatively low number of boardings and the high subsidy per boarding.

The staff recommendation also calls for elimination of six express bus routes — the 31x, 48x, 53x, 63x, 80x and 93x; the DD regional route between Boulder and the largely defunct medical campus at Colorado Boulevard and East 9th Avenue in Denver; and the Aurora, Parker and Superior call-n-Ride routes.

More than 50 bus routes are scheduled for service adjustments that include eliminating early morning or late night runs in some cases, or bumping 10-minute frequencies to every 15 minutes, or 15-minute service to every 30 minutes.

The proposal calls for RTD to no longer operate C line light-rail service between the I-25/Broadway station and Union Station in the off-peak period from around 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. on weekdays, and similarly eliminate off-peak F line service between the Lincoln station and downtown Denver.

Some of the service will be picked up by expanded an expanded E line operation.

Rail riders will be able to transfer at the Broadway/I-25 station to other trains, but the proposed cuts may mean longer travel times for some passengers. Other cuts are slated for weekend rail service.

RTD plans to hold public hearings in late September and early October throughout the metro area on the proposed service reductions.

The board of directors will vote Oct. 25 on the final service plan and cuts will go into effect Jan. 8.

In the past, when more modest service reductions were proposed to RTD's board, it was common for some directors to resist cuts to service in their districts.

In many cases, directors were successful in mobilizing public support for overturning staff recommendations on cuts, even if it meant the retention of routes with low ridership and high subsidization.

One goal of a recent RTD task force that crafted a plan for "long range fiscal sustainability" was to optimize service "emphasizing ridership cost-efficiency."

RTD Director John Tayer, of Boulder, was chair of the fiscal sustainability task force and after the service-reduction plan was presented Tuesday night, Tayer called it the "most powerful rationale for making (RTD's) revenue stream more sustainable."

Still, as a sign of how difficult cost-cutting is when it gets close to home, Tayer also questioned RTD staffers on the wisdom of cutting the peak-period frequency on the Skip bus route in Boulder to every 10 minutes from the current 7-minute frequency.

That three-minute alteration to service would impact 2,500 boardings each weekday and save the agency about $138,000 a year, RTD said.

Jeffrey Leib: 303-954-1645 or [email protected]
Granted, hindsight always shows more than foresight, but....

How many buses could the Fastracks Build Out metro tax portion operate? We are talking peanuts here. $12 million! That's 2.5% of DUS!

The cuts, IMO, result from how large government transportation organizations handle revenue cuts. Protect seniority. Reduce frequency to make a public statement. Project image of how RTD has sacrificed. Direct money towards keeping those with higher paying jobs employed without pay cuts.

Regardless, IMO, we are going to need all the non-private vehicle transporation we can get in the next couple of decades. Maybe these public transportation requirements will be filled by private legal or illegal but tolerated, bus and van operators. Maybe not. Whatever the political environment in the 2030's and later, there will be less private car usage.

But institutional blackmail wears the public raw too, so RTD had better look at universal paycuts and incremental service frequency and route increases, or, sooner than we expect, independent entrepeneurs will fill the gap.*

*Of course RTD has influence in the Capitol, so such a response could be made illegal, or at least, hard to get licensed.
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Good read on relationship between increasing number of freeway lanes and traffic

http://www.vtpi.org/gentraf.pdf
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