Halifax Stadium Discussion

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by someone123

There needs to be a decision on cost range and location to move this debate forward. Dexter is in an awkward position because he cannot give HRM carte blanche to choose whatever scale of stadium they please, to be followed with 1/3 provincial funding.

It's sad that we are not there yet after 2 council votes (this time) and many, many reports. HRM spent something like 13M on Commonwealth Games stuff -- is that even being used now? It's like we start at square one every 5 years.

I imagine that there must be quite a bit of useful information from the Commonwealth Games studies - transportation requirements, etc. If Shannon Park is used then I wonder if there were studies on the cost of demolition of the buildings and possibly even soil testing(?).

I hope that the phase 2 of the current stadium study will provide a fairly detailed design that can be sent out for tender bids.

I am quite excited about the prospect of an economically designed stadium - I believe that 20,000 permanent seats is very possible at an acceptable price. One problem with a 10,000 permanent seat plus 10,000 temporary seat stadium is that it will be built with only enough washroom facilities for 10,000 permanent seats (as indicated in the Sierra report).

I really believe that the MLS took the correct route. It is not a big revenue league at about 280 million dollars total league annual revenue (reference - http://keepinitrealsoccer.com/2011/03/mls-highlighted-on-sportsmoney/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_profe...he_United_States_and_Canada#cite_note-16 ). By building stadiums that are fairly simple in design the MLS minimized much of their financial risk. Some inexpensive stadiums start without even having paved parking - just packed ground and gravel should be sufficient if a stadium is built at Shannon Park (money saved on parking means that more can be spent on the actual stadium).

I am finding that Bing Maps Birds Eye View is a great way of comparing the design of various stadiums. The Columbus Crew Stadium is another economical stadium which cost $28.5 million in 1999 dollars (about $38 million in current dollars - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus_Crew_Stadium ). A screen-capture image from Bing Maps is below. The Bing Maps link is here - http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=qp1dr38...olumbus%2C%20OH%2043211-2091&form=LMLTCC

[Keith P.]

The thing is, for the hypothetical $60 million "economical" stadium, a 1/3rd provincial share is $20M. That is quite literally peanuts for them. It is insignificant. They could announce it tomorrow and nobody would miss it.

[hoser111]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

If Shannon Park is used then I wonder if there were studies on the cost of demolition of the buildings and possibly even soil testing(?).

Feds are already forking out for a large part of the demolition....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2011/07/23/ns-shannon-park-buildings.html

[FuzzyWuz]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

The Columbus Crew Stadium is another economical stadium which cost $28.5 million in 1999 dollars (about $38 million in current dollars - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus_Crew_Stadium ).

This is both heartening, insofar as it shows what can be done for relatively few dollars, and depressing, because all I hear from the decision makers is "Up to sixty million bucks" and "ten to fifteen thousand permanent seats". What is not being communicated, that we are not hearing from the right people about what can truly be done with available money?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The thing is, for the hypothetical $60 million "economical" stadium, a 1/3rd provincial share is $20M. That is quite literally peanuts for them. It is insignificant. They could announce it tomorrow and nobody would miss it.

Yes, I agree. And a 20,000 permanent seat stadium has much more potential for revenue through naming rights and more chance for attracting a professional CFL team or soccer team which would result in additional yearly revenue.

I have a feeling that once the stadium is built that finding financing to expand from 10,000 seats to 20,000 - 25,000 permanent seats will be just as much of a challenge for the stadium authorities as building the stadium was. So it might not happen even if there is a potential professional team owner.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by hoser111

Feds are already forking out for a large part of the demolition....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2011/07/23/ns-shannon-park-buildings.html

Thanks for the link. I am surprised that the land cost is only $3.1 million for 42.5 hectares (105 acres).

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Thanks for the link. I am surprised that the land cost is only $3.1 million for 42.5 hectares (105 acres).

If memory serves there are some contamination issues on the site.
Plus there is also a land claim on there; so they may actually be under valuing the site in order to reduce a settlement.

[wespidel]

51.4 million given by the Feds towards the Convention Centre and another 22 million for 18 asks by the province for infrastructure, roads, water treatment upgrades, etc.

Dexter didn`t ask for stadium money because he doesn`t want to support the stadium project or is he really telling the truth and what deal was really made!

It will be interesting in the near furture if all the sudden Dexter`s govt. changes he`s tune because there still is a chance based for what Peter MacKay said last week on TV that in the fall there could be other announcements as well. What are those other announcements and he wasn`t referring to the shipbuilding contracts which are out of his hands.

Peter MacKay did mention on radio today that despite fiscal restrain that he felt the Convention was a good investment because of the size of the 500 million dollar project and that it was supported by three levels of govt.

I wonder if there is still the Trade-Off possibilty where Mr. MacKay did meet with Dexter on all three issues. The Churchfill Falls project, convention centre, and stadium, that there is more to come.

I can`t believe where Shannon Park is being demolished in a month or so, and when Peter MacKay did indicate to Dexter that Dexter`s govt. was where of Ottawa`s position on the convention centre, that a commitment has already been made on the stadium by all levels of govt. We will have to wait and see and with the FIFA bid around the corner, makes it even more possible.

[halifaxboyns]

Dexter is a politician - and like Mayor Quinmbey said: Whenever the winds change, let it be known that I too shall blow. Meaning: If support for the stadium starts showing real gains and the cost isn't too bad; then he'd change his tune.

After all; election season is just around the corner.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Whenever the winds change, let it be known that I too shall blow.

I and many others have criticized Kelly in the past for being "Mayor Windsock" -- trying to do whatever seems most popular at the time rather than creating and following a clear vision that will move the city forward over the long term.

These days however I think Kelly should be commended for having a clear position on the stadium issue and following through even though there are dissenting voices.

There's still a ton of room for improvement but the city has actually gotten a few things done lately: the library and convention centre are two examples. Prior to those there were no projects of a similar magnitude in the downtown area for about 20 years!

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The thing is, for the hypothetical $60 million "economical" stadium, a 1/3rd provincial share is $20M. That is quite literally peanuts for them. It is insignificant. They could announce it tomorrow and nobody would miss it.

I agree. This is a big part of why they need to nail down costs. A cheap stadium is a trivial project for the city (and I think obviously worth the cost), but because there is no clear picture of what is to be built the anti-stadium crowd can play off fears of billion dollar boondoggles.

[fenwick16]

It will be a relief to see the RFP for the phase 2 study being advertised. Then I think we can feel sure that the study will proceed. It will be interesting to see if the stadium phase 2 study will be brought up for another vote tomorrow.

Having a detailed design and location selected should make fund raising easier for the authorities involved.

[wespidel]

Mayor Kelly is the only one that knows what Halifax needs in a stadium and has come out publicly and said it straight up!

Mayor Kelly said Halifax needs a minimum of 25 thousand permanent seats, expandable permanently to 35 or 40 and temporarily expandable to 45 or 50 thousand. He said this right after the steering committee recommended only a 10 thousand permanent seat stadium. It`s obvious the wrong people were selected for the steering stadium committee, especailly where the Vice Chair`s only objective is to get Saint Marys their 10 thousand permanent seat stadium.

Major Kelly knows that a 10 to 15 thousand permanent seat stadium has no business case because it`s too small for the size of our city and region.

He also knows that the Vice Chair of the steering committee along with his supporters, Sue Uteck, Saint Marys, and Soccer NS have their own objective as well and that is to fulfill Saint Marys needs. I believe that is totally why they are only recommending a 10 thousand permanent seat stadium.

Mayor Kelly is our only hope to build the right facility for Halifax. I hope Mayor Kelly takes the lead and gets the public behind him which I feel he will, if he stands up and demands that the steering committee brings back to council a real stadium proposal and design, that has some vision and has the capability and size to attract a major sports franchise, as a major tenant and other major events, after the two FIFA World Cup of Soccer Events are over.

A 10 or 15 thousand permanent seat replacement stadium for Saint Marys is not going to leave a legacy stadium behind and if built at Shannon Park it would be a real eyesore!

PS. CTV local news tonight: It looks like certain city coucillors got Peter MacKay brainwashed on a 10 to 15 thousand permanent seat stadium too and to share Moncton`s make shift temporary seat concept, to bring it up to 20 or 25 thousand seats temporarily. It costs over a million dollars each time you set up and tear down 10 thousand temporary seats that are endzone bench seats, with no permanent washrooms and concession stands.

Peter MacKay needs to be better informed on what type of stadium Halifax really needs built at Shannon Park.

Peter MacKay also said that there needs to be three levels of govt. involved to support the stadium project in Halifax for the FIFA events.

Peter MacKay also made it very clear if Dexter is out, there will not be a stadium built in Halifax for the FIFA Womens World Cup of Soccer.

Apparently shortly after Peter Mackay`s comments about Dexte`sr lack of support, Dexter came out and said that he would like to see a stadium built a Shannon Park. He totally changed his tune!

It`s all so interesting! We will see what tomorrow brings! Peter MacKay and the Feds seems to like supporting a project with three levels of govt. support and with a private investor.

[ATL Stadium]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

It will be a relief to see the RFP for the phase 2 study being advertised. Then I think we can feel sure that the study will proceed. It will be interesting to see if the stadium phase 2 study will be brought up for another vote tomorrow.

Having a detailed design and location selected should make fund raising easier for the authorities involved.

FYI
The RFP was on the HRM website today....

[fenwick16]

That is interesting news wespidel - could you provide a link to Premier Dexter's comments? (or could someone provide a link?). That is certainly positive news.

Regarding the size of the stadium - it seems as though they are thinking in terms of a stadium under $60 million. If they could build a stadium like Pizza Hut Park or Columbus Crew Stadium with 20,000 plus permanent seats then what would you think?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by ATL Stadium

FYI
The RFP was on the HRM website today....

Thanks ATL Stadium. I just found it. It is advertised here

[ATL Stadium]

I think what will or may happen is a Stadium will be forthcoming...based on the specs of the amateur competition of the FIFA tourney. No monies for a pro stadium... but after that we could lobby to get the stadium expanded. If an owner was to be interested in a lease deal to bring a soccer or CFL team to HRM it would make perfect sense (cents) to expand to fit the criteria for the league.
That type of (hide the agenda) plan often gets the ball rolling within acceptable terms to fit the Federal commit.....its the Province that seems to be dithering around and being not supportive.
Maybe now that the Feds have invested 70 million in NS the NDP will get on board for a stadium!

Atlantic Stadium ~ Atlantic Storm ~ Ride the Wave!

[wespidel]

Fenwick I believe you can watch the entire CTV Steve Murphy live a 6 news cast, and see Dexter`s brief interview and comment, as well you can watch the entire Peter MacKay interview today with Steve Murphy. Take Care!

[wespidel]

That the Feds have supported in the past and it`s sounds like they will support Halifax`s stadium project for the FIFA bid, by Peter MacKay`s comments today, if Dexter govt. decides to come on board. The big question is what type of facility will they support?

[ATL Stadium]

Originally Posted by wespidel

Mayor Kelly is the only one that knows what Halifax needs in a stadium and has come out publicly and said it straight up!

Mayor Kelly said Halifax needs a minimum of 25 thousand permanent seats, expandable permanently to 35 or 40 and temporarily expandable to 45 or 50 thousand. He said this right after the steering committee recommended only a 10 thousand permanent seat stadium. It`s obvious the wrong people were selected for the steering stadium committee, especailly where the Vice Chair`s only objective is to get Saint Marys their 10 thousand permanent seat stadium.

Major Kelly knows that a 10 to 15 thousand permanent seat stadium has no business case because it`s too small for the size of our city and region.

He also knows that the Vice Chair of the steering committee along with his supporters, Sue Uteck, Saint Marys, and Soccer NS have their own objective as well and that is to fulfill Saint Marys needs. I believe that is totally why they are only recommending a 10 thousand permanent seat stadium.

Mayor Kelly is our only hope to build the right facility for Halifax. I hope Mayor Kelly takes the lead and gets the public behind him which I feel he will, if he stands up and demands that the steering committee brings back to council a real stadium proposal and design, that has some vision and has the capability and size to attract a major sports franchise, as a major tenant and other major events, after the two FIFA World Cup of Soccer Events are over.

A 10 or 15 thousand permanent seat replacement stadium for Saint Marys is not going to leave a legacy stadium behind and if built at Shannon Park it would be a real eyesore!

PS. CTV local news tonight: It looks like certain city coucillors got Peter MacKay brainwashed on a 10 to 15 thousand permanent seat stadium too and to share Moncton`s make shift temporary seat concept, to bring it up to 20 or 25 thousand seats temporarily. It costs over a million dollars each time you set up and tear down 10 thousand temporary seats that are endzone bench seats, with no permanent washrooms and concession stands.

Peter MacKay needs to be better informed on what type of stadium Halifax really needs built at Shannon Park.

Peter MacKay also said that there needs to be three levels of govt. involved to support the stadium project in Halifax for the FIFA events.

Peter MacKay also made it very clear if Dexter is out, there will not be a stadium built in Halifax for the FIFA Womens World Cup of Soccer.

Apparently shortly after Peter Mackay`s comments about Dexte`sr lack of support, Dexter came out and said that he would like to see a stadium built a Shannon Park. He totally changed his tune!

It`s all so interesting! We will see what tomorrow brings! Peter MacKay and the Feds seems to like supporting a project with three levels of govt. support and with a private investor.

Who is this Vice Chair of the Steering Committee???
Also I dont think 15,000 perm seats with 10,000 temp is so bad a starting point...it fits for a CFL franchise because you can the temps perm if you had to later down the road.....
I do think 10,000 perm is too small.....but planning for expansion and seating possibilities later on are key points! For Sure

Ride the Wave!