LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by RuFFy

The more I think about it the more I become convinced that monuments, statues or even fountains are not what bring people to urban parks. What brings people to urban parks is a healthy amount of pedestrian traffic. As the pictures above make obvious, no monument is going to drive pedestrian traffic. Pershing Square needs to become a place where people go to escape the heavy pedestrian traffic around it. Until that's there nobody is really going to go there and there won't be people stopping by the park either. When that pedestrian flow arrives, I'd like Pershing Square to be just a lawn, some benches, some trees (think Bryant Park) and a vendor or two. A water feature would be nice, but not completely necessary. My preference is that Pershing Square become as someone mentioned before, a destination, where people reference Pershing Square because it's the place to be. Ideally, I'd like that place to be the central city's high end boutique square.

I'd like it to look EXACTLY as it did circa 1935, cherub fountain and everything. It was a perfectly nice park then, and if done the same it would be a perfectly nice park now. And for gods sake pave over the parking-lot entryways! We have enough parking int the area as it is.

[LA/OCman]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

I'd like it to look EXACTLY as it did circa 1935, cherub fountain and everything. It was a perfectly nice park then, and if done the same it would be a perfectly nice park now. And for gods sake pave over the parking-lot entryways! We have enough parking int the area as it is.

I am not sure exactly what the answer is regarding Pershing Square but I do remember it before the "renovation" and it was really terrible..dirty, homeless everywhere and you really would not "walk in the park". It was also a different Downtown then....much more vibrant now. When I contacted Parks and Rec a while back they indicated they could not change much due the fact that the architect was "world renown".

It is so fixable however. Have you been to a concert there or attended an art exhibit at night? It is vibrant and beautiful with the lights from the surrounding skyscrapers. When you see 800 people sitting around on blankets on a Sat. night listening to great music you can see what a great place this "could" be. I would encourage those here on the forum to become activists and demand change from LA Parks and Rec and the City Council. It is time for a change. I also like the atmosphere during the weekly farmers market at Pershing Square.

[pesto]

Originally Posted by Westsidelife

It has less to do with a dearth of those things and more to do with you being unaware of their existence.

...

Plazas with medium to large sized fountains:

Flickr | bhampton1963

Plazas and statues/sculptures:

Flickr | mike_s_etc


Flickr | feculent_fugue


Flickr | ericrichardson


Flickr | prayitno

Plazas and parks ringed by outdoor cafe's with umbrellas:

Flickr | Kris Wetterlund

Views of historic buildings or something interesting:

Flickr | bhampton1963


Flickr | fridayinla

Away from the hussle and bustle of busy streets:

Flickr | Rob Young


Flickr | onbeingtristan

WSL: an odd mixture of good jobs, bad jobs and not relevant jobs. The Lipchitz in the Music Center repulses people. The commercial tables set up in the area do not even have a view of it. Some of the other plazas are massive cement with over-sized installations; not human in scale or feel. They need replacement and redesign. Drago and Chaya should be doing half their business out there instead of about zero. Some others are fine but not in locations where seating or services are available.

All I'm saying is that you have to make things attractive if you are going to attract people.

[bmfarley]

I am glad downtown LA has those fountains.

Much more is needed.

And, a much improved implementation too. Half those fountains are good examples of what-not to do. IMO.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by pesto

WSL: an odd mixture of good jobs, bad jobs and not relevant jobs. The Lipchitz in the Music Center repulses people. The commercial tables set up in the area do not even have a view of it. Some of the other plazas are massive cement with over-sized installations; not human in scale or feel. They need replacement and redesign. Drago and Chaya should be doing half their business out there instead of about zero. Some others are fine but not in locations where seating or services are available.

All I'm saying is that you have to make things attractive if you are going to attract people.

You're really searching there.

The Music Center is a wonderful public gathering space because it can feel intimate at times. I was there several months back and, outside of a Chinese tour group and a few families, I had the place to myself. I just sat there for a few minutes taking it all in and thinking what a peaceful moment it was to have in the middle of a big city during afternoon rush hour. I certainly didn't find the Peace on Earth statue repulsive.

Pershing Square, on the other hand...

[Muji]

Downtown gets its newest coffee shop with Groundfloor Cafe, which is now fully open as of this afternoon. It takes up a pretty small corner of the Ground Floor Gallery, and most of its seating is outside. It's a nice space, and it'll only get better once Spring Street Park opens up across the street.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by pesto

You were expecting Christain Louboutain? Or maybe Caltech's downtown campus?

What else are you going to get in a "24/7 entertainment and sign district"? You can't wish for Times Sq. and then complain when you get it.

pesto, I'm not sure if you're making some sort of a connection between an old bldg remodeled in a cheap, pathetic way with totally new devpt like LA live. if anything, when I see the way the owner redid that bldg on Fig----with all the awful stucco & lazily done blue paint job----it's as though he's uncertain about the direction of the hood & value engineered the renovation to fit in with this......



maps.google.com


If anything, that hooters bldg makes me think of the way old bldgs in dt might have been redone over 10 or 20 yrs ago, when things were really desperate & no one was sure if the hood would ever see better times again. Or a time when ppl would have laughed at the idea of a 24/7 entertainment & sign district being created around fig & 12th St or Fig & Pico, cuz the area back then was dead, dead, dead---& a dive.

I don't even really disagree with you or others who say the design of new or newer devlpt isn't great or wonderful. but I'm always puzzled when ppl at the same time say little or nothing about the really bad aspects of the hood.

[Illithid Dude]

Looking at that picture of Ground Floor, I noticed how narrow the sidewalks of Spring are. Are the any plans right now to widen the sidewalks? I know there are some for Broadway, but is that were the sidewalk widening plans end?

[Illithid Dude]

And for those who have not seen the magnificent plans for Broadway, then behold at this link: http://www.bringingbackbroadway.com/stel...uments/classmaterials/lacityp_007628.pdf
My only problem with the project is that it would be very difficult to institute bike lanes in Broadway only because the street may actually be too narrow for bikelanes. Now those are words I would never think I would say in Los Angeles.

[pesto]

Originally Posted by citywatch

pesto, I'm not sure if you're making some sort of a connection between an old bldg remodeled in a cheap, pathetic way with totally new devpt like LA live. if anything, when I see the way the owner redid that bldg on Fig----with all the awful stucco & lazily done blue paint job----it's as though he's uncertain about the direction of the hood & value engineered the renovation to fit in with this......



maps.google.com


If anything, that hooters bldg makes me think of the way old bldgs in dt might have been redone over 10 or 20 yrs ago, when things were really desperate & no one was sure if the hood would ever see better times again. Or a time when ppl would have laughed at the idea of a 24/7 entertainment & sign district being created around fig & 12th St or Fig & Pico, cuz the area back then was dead, dead, dead---& a dive.

I don't even really disagree with you or others who say the design of new or newer devlpt isn't great or wonderful. but I'm always puzzled when ppl at the same time say little or nothing about the really bad aspects of the hood.

I would hope for better as well. But Times Sq., even with the advent of the big boxes who are impressed by the foot traffic, is not the classiest part of town. I will be generous and say it is mixed. If you propose a convention center and football stadium and 24/7 signage, you get downmarket bars and clubs (remember it could be Raiders fans pouring in on Sundays). If you don't mandate building standards, you get what you get.

[pesto]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

And for those who have not seen the magnificent plans for Broadway, then behold at this link: http://www.bringingbackbroadway.com/stel...uments/classmaterials/lacityp_007628.pdf
My only problem with the project is that it would be very difficult to institute bike lanes in Broadway only because the street may actually be too narrow for bikelanes. Now those are words I would never think I would say in Los Angeles.

The Broadway project is a great vision, although personally I would ban all cars from the street (and bikes as well; they can use Hill or Spring) and leave it pedestrian, trolley, streetscape and outdoor dining. Unfortunately, there has been minimum movement in the last year and a half.

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by pesto

The Broadway project is a great vision, although personally I would ban all cars from the street (and bikes as well; they can use Hill or Spring) and leave it pedestrian, trolley, streetscape and outdoor dining. Unfortunately, there has been minimum movement in the last year and a half.

Actually, there has been a lot of movement. The thing is, said movement is basement reconstruction so that the sidewalk won't cave in, something you can'tr really see from the surface. The timeline for the actual new streetscape is construction starting in 2014, as it always had been. It still needs an EIR done and to be approved before that.

[pesto]

Originally Posted by Westsidelife

You're really searching there.

The Music Center is a wonderful public gathering space because it can feel intimate at times. I was there several months back and, outside of a Chinese tour group and a few families, I had the place to myself. I just sat there for a few minutes taking it all in and thinking what a peaceful moment it was to have in the middle of a big city during afternoon rush hour. I certainly didn't find the Peace on Earth statue repulsive.

Pershing Square, on the other hand...

Have to disagree on the Music Center. For 1 hr. before performances it attracts a small crowd at the the tables and mini-deli (little or no view of the Lipchitz). But they close when the performance begins; table service is not even available at intermission, much less after the show. It is cold and unattractive and walled in on 3 sides. And almost always deserted.

If it were attractive in its own right it might attract some visitors; but it doesn't. Get rid of the statue (yeah, I know he's famous so put it in some part of MOCA where you don't have to see it); more planters and small trees and keep a few sight lines for the Dot and Ahmanson, and open the view toward City Hall.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by pesto

Have to disagree on the Music Center. For 1 hr. before performances it attracts a small crowd at the the tables and mini-deli (little or no view of the Lipchitz). But they close when the performance begins; table service is not even available at intermission, much less after the show. It is cold and unattractive and walled in on 3 sides. And almost always deserted.

If it were attractive in its own right it might attract some visitors; but it doesn't. Get rid of the statue (yeah, I know he's famous so put it in some part of MOCA where you don't have to see it); more planters and small trees and keep a few sight lines for the Dot and Ahmanson, and open the view toward City Hall.

It sounds like you're just looking for something to complain about. The statue isn't repulsive, nor is any space walled off. The relative dormancy has less to do with a bad design and more to do with the general lack of activity within the vicinity. It is not comparable to Pershing Square.

You're searching. I'm done with the convo.

[bobcat]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

And for those who have not seen the magnificent plans for Broadway, then behold at this link: http://www.bringingbackbroadway.com/stel...uments/classmaterials/lacityp_007628.pdf
.

Even before the Broadway plan we should be keeping our eyes on the Figueroa Corridor Project. Money has already been allocated to the project and from what I understand if construction is not completed by 2013 those funds will be taken away. Therefore you can bet something will be built by that time.

One part of the project that has received less press is the 11th St Paseo, a pedestrian priority corridor stretching from the planned stadium/events center all the way down to Broadway. The current vision has traffic being reduced to a single one-way lane with the balance of space taken up by extended sidewalks, landscaping, and public spaces.
http://myfigueroa.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/2011-02_Fig_Public-Meeting-Boards.pdf

[DistrictDirt]

Originally Posted by bobcat

One part of the project that has received less press is the 11th St Paseo, a pedestrian priority corridor stretching from the planned stadium/events center all the way down to Broadway. The current vision has traffic being reduced to a single one-way lane with the balance of space taken up by extended sidewalks, landscaping, and public spaces.
http://myfigueroa.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/2011-02_Fig_Public-Meeting-Boards.pdf

I didn't know about the 2013 deadline...exciting! We should definitely see movement in 2012 then. That actually seems quite fast, considering the all stakeholders that have a say in reconfiguring the largest street downtown.

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by DistrictDirt

I didn't know about the 2013 deadline...exciting! We should definitely see movement in 2012 then. That actually seems quite fast, considering the all stakeholders that have a say in reconfiguring the largest street downtown.

It does. I'm a little worried, though, that there have been no updates on the project since early March. I know these things take time, but with all the turmoil the CRA has gone through of late, I can never be too sure.

Oh, and JDR Crasher, maybe you can put a Park/Streetscape section in the front page? You could stick in the Civic Park, Spring Street Park, Broadway Streetscape, and this Figueroa Streetscape.

[LosAngelesDreamin]

Originally Posted by bobcat

Even before the Broadway plan we should be keeping our eyes on the Figueroa Corridor Project. Money has already been allocated to the project and from what I understand if construction is not completed by 2013 those funds will be taken away. Therefore you can bet something will be built by that time.

One part of the project that has received less press is the 11th St Paseo, a pedestrian priority corridor stretching from the planned stadium/events center all the way down to Broadway. The current vision has traffic being reduced to a single one-way lane with the balance of space taken up by extended sidewalks, landscaping, and public spaces.
http://myfigueroa.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/2011-02_Fig_Public-Meeting-Boards.pdf

I really love this!!... especially that PAloma Walk under the freeway... why didn't they think of that before?? instead of leaving it all just yucky dirt. This just shows how lovely and attractive figueroa can get =D it has a charming feel to it

[bobcat]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

It does. I'm a little worried, though, that there have been no updates on the project since early March. I know these things take time, but with all the turmoil the CRA has gone through of late, I can never be too sure.

The deadline isn't until the end of 2013 so they still have a little time. The hard part is building a consensus for the design, but the actual construction should be pretty simple. On Facebook they say they're hoping for more community meetings in late fall.

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by bobcat

The deadline isn't until the end of 2013 so they still have a little time. The hard part is building a consensus for the design, but the actual construction should be pretty simple. On Facebook they say they're hoping for more community meetings in late fall.

Well, that's good.