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  #381  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2011, 2:57 AM
pblaauw pblaauw is offline
 
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
...buying up all the land below Highway 322 by Shearwater...
You mean all the military housing? That's unlikely.
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  #382  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2011, 3:01 AM
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
Its an interesting idea. Taking aside the special interest groups that would block it because of the fact it would 'destroy' the island, something tells me there might be legislation that would have to change to allow this to happen.

With the exception of legislation - you'd then have to deal with getting the containers and vehicles on and off the island. Considering that both sides of the Island are used as vessel passages, you would probably be unable to do a bridge, unless it could raise. The shortest distance would be to the Dartmouth side - but you would also need a rail connection which is available on the Dartmouth side.

So assuming you could build a raising bridge (with rail connection) - you could do it from Dartmouth. I'm not sure how well it would go over. I'd think you would almost be better off just buying up all the land below Highway 322 by Shearwater and build the dock there - it would probably be cheaper since you wouldn't have to build a bridge or tunnel.
Here's a question for you - Do the auto carriers that service the autoport actually use the Eastern Passage? I would assume they would potentially be the only vessels of any size that might use Eastern Passage for navigation. If the auto carriers do not traverse Eastern Passage then a bridge servicing McNab's Island would not have to have much elevation.
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  #383  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2011, 3:09 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Here's a question for you - Do the auto carriers that service the autoport actually use the Eastern Passage? I would assume they would potentially be the only vessels of any size that might use Eastern Passage for navigation. If the auto carriers do not traverse Eastern Passage then a bridge servicing McNab's Island would not have to have much elevation.
It's been years since I really paid attention to it; since I don't live in HRM anymore. Going from memory, I believe it is only them but from what I recall of the few times I saw the boats, they come in up through the passage, dock, unload, then continue up the harbour (where a bridge would have to be) and then loop out of the harbour.

If anyone has an certainty to answer this; they would be in a better position than I am to answer it. Like I said, I'm going from memory and it may have been they did it because of some strange reason (weather?) but it may be the norm to not go up the passage to exit.
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  #384  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2011, 3:23 AM
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TheNovaScotian TheNovaScotian is offline
 
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I agree

I live in Eastern Passage at the moment and work for a subsidiary of CN, the Autoport,unloading cars off the ships and onto the rails.
No, they come in and out the by Shearwater because it's too shallow for the size of ship, they're brought in by tugs just after they pass the island. Usually there is 3 to 4 ships coming in a week.
I think the idea makes most sense to move container traffic off the peninsula over to the Dartmouth side. IMO the best spot is next to Imperoyal Oil, where the trailer and car parking lots areas are. Start at Cherubini and work back to the holding tanks and build a rail/road overpass to the other side of the road. Looking at the sheer area between the tanks across the road to Carleton St. you could have a bigger and better organized yard with deeper berthing than at Halterm. Plus the trip to a 100 series highway is a lot shorter and mostly industrial anyways.
Imagine using the runway at Shearwater, a runway you can land the space shuttle or any other plane that flies for that matter as a transport hub including Stanfield in the equation.

Last edited by TheNovaScotian; Aug 9, 2011 at 3:55 AM.
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  #385  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2011, 3:26 AM
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Just so we stay close to topic, IMO opening up the rail cut and maybe making a rail only tunnel across at the end of the Circumferential Highway having a rapid transit system that worked its way back to the MacKay and incorporate a rail line into the bridge while they redeck it, which is due within the next 10 years. With the ships coming in not having to pass under any bridges or over the tunnel it allows the biggest ships now and down the road to still call port here.

Last edited by TheNovaScotian; Aug 9, 2011 at 3:55 AM.
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  #386  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2011, 3:35 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNovaScotian View Post
No, they come in and out the by Shearwater because it's too shallow for the size of ship, they're brought in by tugs just after they pass the island. Usually there is 3 to 4 ships coming in a week.
Oh okay, I think I understand - they come up the main harbour and then do a turn and then head down by Sherwater but then rather than continue straight out through the passage - it back tracks back out to the main harbour? Do I have that right?
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  #387  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2011, 3:38 AM
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Yes, as well as the few tankers that dock nearby at the Ultramar facility.
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  #388  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2011, 3:41 AM
musicman musicman is offline
 
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Yes you have it right. Besides i highly doubt you could get any size ship between the point on Mcnabs and the point in eastern passage let alone the depth you would need.
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  #389  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2011, 3:45 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
 
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Originally Posted by musicman View Post
Yes you have it right. Besides i highly doubt you could get any size ship between the point on Mcnabs and the point in eastern passage let alone the depth you would need.
So then the issue that was talked about earlier (for a bridge) might still be a problem depending on where you put the Bridge. You'd have to put it pretty far south of the docking area along the Dartmouth Shore. But you could still do the container facility along the coast of McNabs as Moncton Rad Suggested.

Something like this.
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  #390  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2011, 4:11 AM
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TheNovaScotian TheNovaScotian is offline
 
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At the Autoport the area your cutting across is very high traffic and is the drainage system that is already overtaxed because the road was flooded tonight and traffic diverted. The amount of headaches from using McNab's would make it difficult let alone convincing CN to chop up their own facility would make this a impossibility. Not even tackling the 2nd largest diving company in the province and residential near Twin Lane.
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  #391  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2011, 4:12 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNovaScotian View Post
At the Autoport the area your cutting across is very high traffic and is the drainage system that is already overtaxed because the road was flooded tonight and traffic diverted. The amount of headaches from using McNab's would make it difficult let alone convincing CN to chop up their own facility would make this a impossibility. Not even tackling the 2nd largest diving company in the province and residential near Twin Lane.
Oh I have no doubt of that - I was just trying to make sure I understood the path; so I could be sure I had Moncton Rad's idea correctly.
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  #392  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2011, 4:27 AM
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The best way to get across now and could be expanded is taking a water taxi from Fisherman's Cove. If a terminal was built on the road between Drakes Gut and Wreck Cove and a terminal at the end of Old Military Rd, work the Halifax facing terminal into the ferry system for special events. With a segway rental station at each terminal, it would make the whole island accessible. Even better take a chunk of land facing the Halifax skyline and BLOW MAGNETIC HILL OUT OF THE WATER with a concert venue capable to hold 100 000 and have loads of room for campsites. Make it a outdoors mans dream by having hiking trails, sea kayaking, rock climbing and other out door recreations but have it in the city.

Last edited by TheNovaScotian; Aug 9, 2011 at 4:42 AM.
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  #393  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2011, 5:09 AM
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resetcbu1 resetcbu1 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Here's a question for you - Do the auto carriers that service the autoport actually use the Eastern Passage? I would assume they would potentially be the only vessels of any size that might use Eastern Passage for navigation. If the auto carriers do not traverse Eastern Passage then a bridge servicing McNab's Island would not have to have much elevation.
They could off load the cars on McNab's too, then move them the same method as the rest of the cargo to the dartmouth side CN rail???
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  #394  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2011, 9:55 AM
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MonctonRad MonctonRad is online now
 
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Interesting discussion....

There may be more logistical issues WRT the McNab's site than I anticipated (quelle surprise), but it appears there are other possible sites to relocate Halterm in the Woodside/Eastern Passage area in any event. By keeping the new terminal in the outer harbour, this would allow Post Panamax ships to use the facility with no worries about the harbour bridges.

The most important thing is to get Halterm off the peninsula. This would allow truly revolutionary repurposing of the current Halterm lands and opens up the rail cut for rail based transit. Again, a win-win situation
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  #395  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2011, 2:37 PM
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Agreed

The problem with having the Autoport on McNabs is the Autoport is larger than the Halterm yard, It's one the largest trans-shipment facilities in North America so trying to do both would take too large a footprint of a provincial park.
The land that Halterm sits on, is it effected by any view planes? Or, just the rampart restrictions.
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  #396  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2011, 3:27 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNovaScotian View Post
The problem with having the Autoport on McNabs is the Autoport is larger than the Halterm yard, It's one the largest trans-shipment facilities in North America so trying to do both would take too large a footprint of a provincial park.
The land that Halterm sits on, is it effected by any view planes? Or, just the rampart restrictions.
There are viewplanes on the Halterm site - it's completely covered, but if my memory of the maximum height from the viewplanes is correct, you could probably get between 8 to 10 stories out of each building.

Considering that you would not have any boats docking in the area - you could potentially fill in the births and create one large pad where cruise ships could dock along the outer edge (and thus have a boardwalk). Then multiple building sites - I'm sure you could probably get amount of population in there. You'd probably also see a lot of the rail bed taken out too if the port moved, thus freeing up more land. I could see the potential of a lovely pedestrian oriented community with one major road through it - Terminal Road and a streetcar.

Plus, if this land did ever come up for development there might be grounds to go review the viewplanes and increase the height a bit so you could get say 10 to 12 stories.
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  #397  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2011, 6:14 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
 
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This discussion has come up in the Sister's site thread about streetcars in and around SGR. We started out talking about commercial corridors (someone123 had an idea of making sure the SGR commercial corridor reached from the main strip from South Park to Barrington but also there was a component going from Robie to South Park).

Anyway, that began a discussion of alternate commercial corridors and creating them using transit - streetcars. This is a long post - sorry about it, but I wanted to explain my proposal.

This lead me to go back to the streetcar map which I created and have been updating with further discussions in the different threads. So here is the map of my 4 streetcar routes.

A couple things that lead to the routings I've shown:
  • I tried to incorporate routes that hit major employment centres or trip generators (downtown, universities, schools, tourist sites);
  • I tried to make sure there was interconnection of streetcar routes with other transit modes (conventional routes and BRTs) at major transit stations;
  • Wherever possible, I liked the idea of using a 'joint' service corridor - where 2 streetcar routes could share the same track and then branch off. This is true in downtown Halifax, as you can see on the map; and
  • I wanted to try to focus on areas that were under utilized in terms of 'what they could be' scenarios (I'll explain in a momment).

There are 4 proposed routes: 501, 502, 503 and 504.
The 501 route is a loop starting at the NSIT following Agricola and North Park inbound to downtown, via Cogswell and then down Hollis to the train station, down Barrington under the railway tracks and back into downtown via the Seaport and Lower Waterstreet. Then back out of the downtown via Cogswell, North Park, Agricola to the Hydrostone and finishing up on Novalea drive up to NSIT.

Route 503 starts out at Mumford, going through the HSC and down Connaught ending up on Windsor street. From Windsor, inbound to Downtown via Cunard into the shared downtown segment with the 501, via Cogswell and Hollis Street. The 502 branches off to the universities at Morris Street, heading down Morris, onto University Avenue (past the IWK) and then turning left at Robie ending up at SMU. The route backtracks along the same route but continuing along Morris to Lower Water street where it rejoins the shared segment through downtown and then following the inbound route in reverse back to Mumford.

The 502 streetcar is a Dartmouth route but is a loop starting at the Waterfront NSCC campus (it could start at Woodside too, but I chose the NSCC for now), heading inbound to Dartmouth DT via Pleasant and Portland street, onto Alderney past King's Wharf and Alderney Landing, up the hill to the new Dartmouth Bridge Terminal. Then leaving DBT via Wyse Road, down to Windmill and then turning into Shannon Park (assuming a redevelopment similar to the Commonwealth plan, with a looproad). This is where the route is a bit "assumed' since there is no redevelopment plan for SP yet, but following a loop road through the site, up to DFO and into Wallace Heights to do a loop back to SP and back outbound through DT Dartmouth to NSCC.

The 504 streetcar starts at the Bridge Terminal (transfer point) then follows Victoria road up into Highfield Park and then into Burnside via Burnside drive and then along Commadore down into Dartmouth Crossing. This is where the route follows Findlay Drive to Wright Avenue and then turning left at Ilsley, then left again onto Commadore and then back onto Burnside Drive to head back via the same route to the Bridge terminal.

The shared portion of downtown Halifax allows the office crowds to be serviced with a streetcar much more often, depending on the time of day and frequency of service. So if both lines run every 10 minutes at lunch hour, the downtown stops would see a streetcar roughly every 5 minutes.

The Halifax lines incorporate some major tourist spots during the summer months and also provide better service to the farmers market (which can help with the parking problem). The Dartmouth lines hit some major areas that could see redevelopment (Shannon Park, Highfield Park, Victoria Road and Wallace Heights) as the city grows.

I've also tried to provide service to some of the major school/hospital sites (Dal, SMU, NSIT, NSCC) because this could push up transit numbers. If I use the Portland Streetcar as a starting point - late night and very early morning service would be every 20 minutes and then any other time of day every 12 minutes. So in shared downtown areas, the stops would see a streetcar every 6 minutes (plenty of headway).

The only risk with a shared portion is that if the city sees a huge growth spurt and the streetcar expands big time, there may eventually be a capacity issue.

Here are the types of streetcars I'm thinking could be used:

Vancouver 2010 Streetcar (Bombardier)


Portland Streetcar (Skoda)
Photo - was too big to include in thread
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  #398  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2011, 1:21 AM
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planarchy planarchy is offline
 
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Trolley Coach Route Map from the 1950s. I believe this was before they were buses and still on tracks, but someone else here should know for sure. Map is from 1958 if I remember correctly. A bit blurry...

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  #399  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2011, 1:32 AM
ScovaNotian ScovaNotian is offline
 
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I'm trying to make sense of the Dalhousie buildings on the map. Did the two T-shaped buildings exist? One seems to be where either the Killam or Chemistry are (and it may be the latter). The other one is green space today, isn't it? The smallest one of the buildings must be the Studley gym.
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  #400  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2011, 4:01 AM
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resetcbu1 resetcbu1 is offline
 
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what a loss to the city , look at how famous the trolleys are in San Fran, huge tourist draw plus they are just plain cool!
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