Saskatchewan / Manitoba Skyline Thread

[jigglysquishy]

Saskatoon also has a height restriction of roughly 100 m will be certainly come into play within the next 25 years.

Regina's downtown is 0.4 km^2

Sakatoon's downtown is 0.7 km^2

At nearly twice the size it makes it hard to compete density wise.


Also, I've always found Saskatoon's downtown to be very hard to define area wise. For Regina its simple; its Broad to Albert, Sask to Victoria. For Saskatoon I generally use 25th Street as the north border, the river as the east border, the river as the south border and Idylwyld as the west border

[ceedub1170]

statement retracted

[macblaze]

Originally Posted by armorand93

I think Regina would have a better chance, particularly because it is on the TransCanada, and closer to major cities (Cheyenne, WY, Calgary, Winnipeg) and the 49th parallel/US Border

I have to agree with you .Regina is like big hibernating bear its been sleeping for a very long time and now it awake and very very very hungry and maybe a little grouchy it wants some food and it wanted its food yesterday . There's already a tower going up as we speak which is the tallest tower between Winnipeg and Calgary and this tower has nothing to do with government. The winds of change course in Regina is no longer solely government focus a lot more private companies are coming that's reason for hill tower 3 and there also a next one currently in planing phase and has been stated has sask large office building due to the sq ft then you have the major development of the GTH global transportation hub . Regina as also had the largest amount of jobs than any other major center in sask in 2010, and according to td bank the housing market in regina is now about to outperform the nation http://www.leaderpost.com/business/Regina+market+outperform/5104286/story.html#ixzz1S8p1KBNP so with saying all that you can tell regina skyline is about to change in a major way .

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Brutopian

The reason why Regina's skyline is more pronounced, despite being 50,000 fewer people than Saskatoon, is simply this: Regina is Saskatchewan's capital city, so it has the crown corp head offices and gov't jobs which require a lot of office space. Conversely, Saskatoon is home to the provincial university and, as such, has university infrastructure superior to Regina. Saskatoon's population growth has outpaced Regina by a wide margin for decades now, so my guess is that we will see many more tall buildings (with private sector tenants) constructed in the future in Saskatoon commensurate with the continued robust growth rate of Saskatoon.

Also, Regina was the larger city for decades. Saskatoon overtook in the late 80s I think.

Regina also has the Hill family, who along with the McCallums (previously), are responsible for the construction of probably over half of Regina's skyline.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by macblaze

I have to agree with you .Regina is like big hibernating bear its been sleeping for a very long time and now it awake and very very very hungry and maybe a little grouchy it wants some food and it wanted its food yesterday . There's already a tower going up as we speak which is the tallest tower between Winnipeg and Calgary and this tower has nothing to do with government. The winds of change course in Regina is no longer solely government focus a lot more private companies are coming that's reason for hill tower 3 and there also a next one currently in planing phase and has been stated has sask large office building due to the sq ft then you have the major development of the GTH global transportation hub . Regina as also had the largest amount of jobs than any other major center in sask in 2010, and according to td bank the housing market in regina is now about to outperform the nation http://www.leaderpost.com/business/Regina+market+outperform/5104286/story.html#ixzz1S8p1KBNP so with saying all that you can tell regina skyline is about to change in a major way .

I know of Hill Centre III, a building with 500,000 sq. ft going up, and the capital pointe condos. Is there more?

[CCF]

Originally Posted by armorand93

I know of Hill Centre III, a building with 500,000 sq. ft going up, and the capital pointe condos. Is there more?

Two other residential towers that are downtown (ish) as well as some smaller office buildings.

[macblaze]

Originally Posted by armorand93

I know of Hill Centre III, a building with 500,000 sq. ft going up, and the capital pointe condos. Is there more?

yup there is but as I said still in the planing phase I think it still needs approval from city hall here a link to the news story


http://www2.canada.com/life/saskatchewan...ilt+regina/4813245/story.html?id=4813245

[thefourthtower]

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[capitalist]

If you check out other job posting sites, like Workopolis, Kijiji, Moster, the jobshop.ca sites, the canada.com sites which is the newspapers job posting site, Saskatoon has the most jobs being posted. Overall Saskatoon has the highest job creation in Saskatchewan.

[thefourthtower]

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[macblaze]

Originally Posted by thefourthtower

You need claims to back these statements up , most of the job creation has been in the regina area as per govt web sites for a very long time now, we all know who wins in the skyline debate ,with some more surprises to come, all in all it is great to see sask grow .

this is correct Regina has been leading the pack here are the links
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/story/2011/06/10/sk-jobs-saskatchewan-1106.html

http://www.gov.sk.ca/news?newsId=608ba7ae-8489-4d5c-bfd9-99c0ec22e002

but both places are doing well

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by Echoes

^ A common joke around here is that Calgary is Saskatchewan's largest city. A reference to the number of SK expats in Alberta of course.

oh wow. So it is true then!!

I'm pretty sure I recall him saying a quarter million people in Calgary are former Saskies...which just blew my mind... I've heard similar numbers tossed around for Edmonton.

I'm not truly sure though what he said, but regardless that is a funny saying.

It would be interesting to see how many people exactly are from Sask originally...I've heard many moving back in recent years which is good to hear. I mean, they even had ads on Deerfoot to go back to Sask!!! That blew my mind.

Originally Posted by Canadian Mind

Up until 2008, at a population of 2.2 million, Vancouver also didn't have a building over 150 meters either. So if you're so concerned about my opinion of you're regions "phallic reach," why aren't you considering it a compliment that I'm curious to see if there are any 150 meter proposals coming down the pipe? Especially for cities that are anywhere from 1/12th to 1/3rd Vancouver's size?


Alright, different question then, what will Winnipeg hit first? 150 meters or 1 million pop? And I was always under the impression that Regina and Saskatoon were of similar size, both in population and general appearance and size of their skylines. If regina is almost 50 000 smaller than Saskatoon, how did it end up getting the larger and more identifiable skyline?

Hmm, very good question indeed. And its a tricky one. To be honest, its almost unforeseeable. Like for example, if MB Hydro went in a different direction with their head office building, we would have a 170m building in the Peg today and the question would likely be "When will Winnipeg get another 150m + building" instead.

Will head offices consolidate their efforts in a few more towers in the city? Will there be some unforeseen exodus of American businesses that move to Canada (unlikely - outside of maybe moving Canadian HO's), will the oil business in MB become taken up and pushed by a MB-based company? Will MB Hydro or MTS or Richardson decide they need another office tower for their workforce? (Richardson certainly could handle it...they have a huge workforce, and by raw numbers they could support a few more towers of same size they currently have but its not all concentrated in Winnipeg)? Or might there be some unforeseen new startup company in the city or something that happens down the line with CentrePort that makes a company desire office space downtown?

For instance, right now there is not a lot of demand for top tier office space in the city (like the top floors of former Canwest/TD building), but there is demand for smaller & cheaper office space. I think mixed use hotel, office and apartment towers are going to be mainly in the future for Winnipeg's downtown. The tricky thing is its tough to predict...who knew for instance Winnipeg would be doing this well economically? It certainly was not what the "experts" predicted in the early 2000's.

Very tough to predict. I am right down the line 50/50. Sorry

I would bet on a few more 85-115m buildings of mixed use than 150m + for the foreseeable future. But even that is tough to gauge.

One thing is for certain; 5 years from now Winnipeg's skyline will look different thanks for a few key projects.

Originally Posted by chrisallard5454

A building with that height would require a large portion of the market with the amount of sq footage, especially at the cost it would go for. Also the top four floors of the Canwest Building now stand empty, so I would worry about filling our current gaps, along with replacing our parking lots with multiple low-midrise buildings to increase density first.

I personally love Ottawa's skyline, not for its height but for its density. There is not many Canadian cities with that kind of density right downtown.

Yep, well said. Ottawa feels even crazier. I remember being pleasantly surprised my first trip there. It doesn't have the height even Winnipeg has, but I remember I never even thought about or noticed that till I went back to Peg city. It was just that immersive. Beautiful city too. Not seeing a single parking lot was so beautiful

I would say that should be Winnipeg's next target. All the redevelopment in the Exchange is the first step towards that...

Originally Posted by Canadian Mind

That much is true. Ottawa feels much bigger downtown then it really is.

As for building density though, don't do what Vancouver did, and build so much density that it becomes economically unfeasible to build taller in the future. Plenty of midrises-highrises downtown that could have supported true skyscrapers that probably wont be torn down for the next 25-30 years because the return isn't there.

Interesting to note. However, also don't forget why exactly Vancouver build those mid-rises...housing. Not just due to the greater Vancouver area's metro, but also because space was/is an issue in Vancouver. In Winnipeg, that's not the case. First off, there is no where near the density in downtown Winnipeg as there is downtown Vancouver, and second, we have sprawling sub urbs...these cut the need and necessity for building downtown. In Vancouver, it was cheaper and made more sense for developers to build an appt building that a new neighbourhood. In Winnipeg, the opposite is (generally) the case.

Originally Posted by Brutopian

The reason why Regina's skyline is more pronounced, despite being 50,000 fewer people than Saskatoon, is simply this: Regina is Saskatchewan's capital city, so it has the crown corp head offices and gov't jobs which require a lot of office space. Conversely, Saskatoon is home to the provincial university and, as such, has university infrastructure superior to Regina. Saskatoon's population growth has outpaced Regina by a wide margin for decades now, so my guess is that we will see many more tall buildings (with private sector tenants) constructed in the future in Saskatoon commensurate with the continued robust growth rate of Saskatoon.

Yeah, Regina vs Saskatoon development is one of my emerging favourite things to follow. Both cities are in a unique place, and its an exciting time to follow them or live in them. I like Saskatoon's student life. Gonna make a trip there when I'm more settled in Canada...too much back and forth overseas for the next little while.

ed: - But I've also been itching to hit up Regina...as other have said on this page, its in major boom mode. People need to take Regina's population into account too when discussing the skyline. I have yet to come across a city of 215k anywhere in the world with a skyline like Regina's.

[Larch]

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[Chaps]

Originally Posted by capitalist

If you check out other job posting sites, like Workopolis, Kijiji, Moster, the jobshop.ca sites, the canada.com sites which is the newspapers job posting site, Saskatoon has the most jobs being posted. Overall Saskatoon has the highest job creation in Saskatchewan.

There was an article not too long ago that talked about Regina adding a couple thousand jobs in the same time frame that Saskatoon lost 800 (numbers could be off a bit).

Saskatoon is leading in population growth by a little bit, but Regina is ahead in new jobs.

[Chaps]

Originally Posted by Larch

thanks buddy, it's been a bit sweltering lately so an icepack would do me well.
just a thought: maybe preface your "interest" by leaving out the lame insults. as far as i know we have no definitive history of gravel production, so likening saskatchewan to a pit between alberta and manitoba is gonna ruffle at least my feathers.
that said, i've put up with enough sask-downtalk through the course of my life (and usually from people who have never been here, just like i called it in your case) not to let it get the best of me.



the short answer in my opinion is topography. regina is probably the flattest city in canada (though winnipeg might be a close second), so the view of its skyline is uninhibited from any angle. saskatoon's downtown is in a valley, and you really can't see much of its skyline unless you're in the city centre (certain exceptions aside). plus, regina's downtown is more densely clustered while saskatoon's follows the bend and flow of the south saskatchewan river. both skylines are a function of their opposing topographies.

if my memory serves correctly, regina was basically settled there because certain officials (lt. gov. Dewdney?) owned land along that stretch of the railroad. railway aside, there was really no logical reason to put a city in that location. i personally think that regina's skyline was and continues to be its way of making a mark, especially when compared with other more naturally endowed cities. Walter Scott, the first saskatchewan premier, ultimately intended the speck-on-the-prairie capital to become the Chicago of the North (a title that would now be more befitting of winnipeg), and i think Scott's aspirations have been shared by many developers or Hill/Mcallum families since. you now have the mini metropolis as a result.

there are other differences as well (as brutopian mentioned) but i personally think it all comes back to topography and those resultant definining features: saskatoon had the river/valley, and regina had a flat blank slate on which to make something stand out.

out of curiosity, has anyone done an actual tally of buildings in each city? i honestly wouldn't be surprised if saskatoon has just as many or more, and that density/topography is regina's real "upper hand" (not that i personally give a damn...as far as i'm concerned skylines are secondary to what happens on the ground...in case i haven't already made that clear ).

It has little to do with topography...Regina just has taller and shinier (glass) buildings.

I thin you're right that if you count all buildings over 12 stories that Saskatoon has slightly more. But the top 4/5 tallest buildings in the province are in Regina...and the next 2 that will be in the top 5 are currently underway in Regina.

However, what Saskatoon lacks in height and attractive architecture downtown is certainly made up in natural beauty and perspectives (coming over the bridges into downtown).

[Larch]

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[Chaps]

Originally Posted by Larch

...which is ultimately due to prevailing building practices that still today respond to its location.

i quite like regina, and i don't claim for the above lens to cover every angle.

but it's obvious that, through town-hall votes and the signing of cheques, cities are formed in response to environmental cues, whether physical or psychological. the lay of the land factors HUGEly in there.



all thanks to its topography

I guess you are certainly allowed to believe whatever you like. I think you would have a hard time proving your theory on a consistent basis throughout the world.

Town hall has never voted to increase the height or put in glass instead of other materials in any project that I have ever been privy to. So we'll agree to disagree on this one.

[thefourthtower]

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[Larch]

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[Chaps]

Originally Posted by Larch

so council has no say about height restrictions? that's news to me.

Now you're creating s straw man argument. You know I didn't say that.