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  #2581  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2011, 6:30 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
Boilerplate non-announcement and non-story. They'll give an answer when they're ready, unless they're trying to intentionally stall to force the developer to kill the project.
Agreed - total non-story. I don't think it's the latter.
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  #2582  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2011, 6:36 PM
beyeas beyeas is offline
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What the heck??

Quote:
He said the Harper government would wait to hear from municipal and provincial officials.
Waiting for WHAT from municipal and provincial officials? I thought this was all supposed to be in federal hands right now??!! I seriously hope this is a mis-quote.
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  #2583  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2011, 6:39 PM
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Originally Posted by beyeas View Post
What the heck??



Waiting for WHAT from municipal and provincial officials? I thought this was all supposed to be in federal hands right now??!! I seriously hope this is a mis-quote.
The feds may have asked for clarification or even changes, and are waiting for it, and if the questions or changes are technical, it may take some time.
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  #2584  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2011, 10:02 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by beyeas View Post
What the heck??



Waiting for WHAT from municipal and provincial officials? I thought this was all supposed to be in federal hands right now??!! I seriously hope this is a mis-quote.
I wonder if it has to do with a price increase for the convention centre? The federal government might be waiting to see if the provincial government and HRM are committed to a price increase, which has been rumoured. The other possibility is that Rank Inc. hasn't guaranteed a new price. I don't think that the federal government would want to commit prior to having a firm price guarantee and assurances that the HRM and Nova Scotia government will cover their percentage of the increase.
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  #2585  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2011, 11:46 AM
beyeas beyeas is offline
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
I wonder if it has to do with a price increase for the convention centre? The federal government might be waiting to see if the provincial government and HRM are committed to a price increase, which has been rumoured. The other possibility is that Rank Inc. hasn't guaranteed a new price. I don't think that the federal government would want to commit prior to having a firm price guarantee and assurances that the HRM and Nova Scotia government will cover their percentage of the increase.
Bingo. I bet you are right.
Good catch.
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  #2586  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2011, 2:57 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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From the Halifax Herald...

Rae: Convention centre worthwhile
Interim Liberal leader says Ottawa should help finance Halifax project

The federal government should be willing to back a new Halifax convention centre, interim federal Liberal leader Bob Rae said Thursday.

"I do think a federal investment is worthwhile," Rae said after meeting with Liberals in Halifax.

"The revenue that you attract by having a competitive convention centre more than offsets the amount of capital investment that is provided over a period of time."

Rae said conventioneers provide an economic boost because of their spending and in the sales taxes they pay. He said the centres increase tourism, a critical part of the economy.

More of the story at here.
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  #2587  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2011, 6:02 PM
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A discussion over possible price increases involving all three levels of government seems like a positive sign. If the feds weren't interested they probably wouldn't be at the table discussing whether or not they should pay more. This is all very speculative though.

Hopefully they are actually making progress and not just shuffling things around. Intentional and unintentional "busy waiting" type cycles seem very common in government.
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  #2588  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2011, 8:15 PM
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MacKay: 'We're ready to go' on trade centre
Ball in developer's court on downtown Halifax project, federal minister says
By DAVID JACKSON Provincial Reporter
Mon, Aug 8 - 4:24 PM

Federal cabinet minister Peter MacKay told reporters Monday in Halifax that they'll have to ask developer Joe Ramia about the delay in the decision on a new trade and convention centre for downtown. (CHRISTIAN LAFORCE / Staff)

If people want to know why there’s a delay in the decision on a new Halifax convention centre, ask the developer, Defence Minister Peter MacKay said this afternoon.

“We’re ready to go, and I think you need to get to the source,” MacKay said in Halifax.

MacKay had said July 20 that he expected an announcement within days on the proposed $159-million convention centre project by Rank Inc.

“That was my hope, and at that time, it was within days and what you’ll have to do now is talk to the developer,” said MacKay after speaking to a conference of eastern Canadian and U.S. legislators.

The province is asking Ottawa to contribute $47 million to the project, while the province and city would cover the rest.

The centre would be part of Rank’s $500-million Nova Centre, which would include an office tower, hotel and retail space.

The $159-million price tag was good until mid-April. There have been reports that the price has since gone up by an unspecified amount, but there’s been no public agreement on how any extra cost would be covered.

“Clearly, this is a private sector initiative in concert with the province and the federal government, so there are issues that need to be worked out,” said MacKay, the province’s lone federal cabinet minister.

The minister wouldn’t say that his government has approved funding, but is “ready to make our position known.”

A message for developer Joe Ramia has not yet been returned.

The convention centre proposal has been controversial, with opponents questioning the promised economic benefits and saying the convention business is in decline.

MacKay met with Premier Darrell Dexter on the weekend, and said the two spoke about the convention centre project, a federal loan guarantee for the Lower Churchill hydro project and the possibility of a stadium in the capital.

“Things are going well from my perspective. All of those initiatives will serve our province very well, will serve our region very well,” MacKay said.

“And so I’m encouraged at the status of these projects and these discussions and we should have some good announcements in the fall.”

Halifax regional council is scheduled to resume debate Tuesday on whether to go ahead with phase 2 of a stadium feasibility study. It would cost $275,000, while an initial report cost $100,000.

The study, released last month, says Halifax Regional Municipality could build a 10,000-seat stadium for sports and other events. The proposed facility would accommodate temporary seating doubling the capacity. Cost of the proposed stadium is unknown, though municipal staff have said it could be about $60 million. Phase 2 of the analysis would include cost, design and candidate sites.

MacKay has said publicly that he personally supports the idea of a stadium for the Halifax region, and that federal land at Shannon Park in Dartmouth would be a good site.

MacKay was asked whether he was surprised at council being unsure whether to proceed, despite his support.

“You know what? After the Commonwealth Games experience, nothing surprises me,” he said.

“Think of what $1 billion-plus would be doing for the City of Halifax right now while that construction would have been underway for the next there years.”

In 2007, the city scrapped a bid for the 2014 Commonwealth Games, which included a 20,000-seat stadium, after estimated costs climbed to between $1.5 billion and $2 billion, while Ottawa had committed $400 million.
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  #2589  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2011, 9:20 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Originally Posted by Haliguy View Post
MacKay was asked whether he was surprised at council being unsure whether to proceed, despite his support.

“You know what? After the Commonwealth Games experience, nothing surprises me,” he said.

“Think of what $1 billion-plus would be doing for the City of Halifax right now while that construction would have been underway for the next there years.”
What a great jab at the those involved in shutting down the Commonwealth games bid - I like it. The fact was if they had talked and communicated better, I'm sure we could've done it.

Oh well this is good news and interesting that now the ball is back in Joe's hands. Guess we'll see...
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  #2590  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2011, 9:23 PM
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yeah I thought it was a pretty good jab as well
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  #2591  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2011, 9:26 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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That is good news and bad news. It sounds like the federal government is planning to support it. But what is the holdup with Rank Inc.? Could Rank Inc. be having difficulties with arranging finances? They have to arrange for an interim loan since they won't receive the federal payment until it is complete and the provincial and HRM contributions are through a yearly lease arrangement. Or are they getting cold feet with the office component?

Just some wild speculation on my part.
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  #2592  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2011, 10:32 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
That is good news and bad news. It sounds like the federal government is planning to support it. But what is the holdup with Rank Inc.? Could Rank Inc. be having difficulties with arranging finances? They have to arrange for an interim loan since they won't receive the federal payment until it is complete and the provincial and HRM contributions are through a yearly lease arrangement. Or are they getting cold feet with the office component?

Just some wild speculation on my part.
I don't think you are off base Fenwick - it could be a number of issues. With today's financial meltdown and the events that lead up to today, there could be issues that have built up in the background that have created problems for Rank.

If it is commercial; it could be getting financing or it could be that some of the people he had letters from committing to take the space - may now be in the situation of having to back out or delay going ahead.

But if I remember back to his presentation, one of the things that I recall was that he said the tower design and project was at a point that he could be flexible with the amount of office/hotel and change it to residential if need be. I would guess that if he did that, he may now have to be put in a situation that the profit margin he would get has reduced?

Time will tell I guess - the ball is squarely back in Rank's court. My only concern is that if this ends up being a profit margin issue and not a getting credit or market issue - that he may screw anyone in the future out of a potential relationship with both the Provincial and Federal Governments. Essentially another 'Commonwealth games' (for a lack of a better term).
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  #2593  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2011, 10:32 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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I found this in the Vancouver convention centre thread. I thought I would post it here because it gives some home and comparison to a City that really supports it's convention centre.


Quote:
Vancouver heading toward record year for convention business
Event next month could put almost $50 million into economy
By SCOTT SIMPSON, Vancouver Sun July 13, 2011

VANCOUVER -- Thanks to a new convention centre and some exceptionally large groups of visitors, Vancouver is heading toward a record year for convention business.

The provincial ministry of jobs, tourism and innovation reported on Wednesday that 413 events have been confirmed this year for the Vancouver Convention Centre, including conferences, trade shows, banquets and meetings. That compares to 350 events in 2010.

Among those events are some particularly massive gatherings. The city in May played host to 10,000 international delegates to the annual conference and exhibition of the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

And a five-day conference next month is expected to double that.

The convention centre and its partners, including Tourism Vancouver and Vancouver hotel operators, are expecting 20,000 delegates for the annual conference of SIGGRAPH, the U.S.-based Special Interest Group on Computer Graphics and Interactive Techniques — a group that includes video game developers.

The convention centre estimates that a delegate spends an average of $485 per convention day on accommodations, meals, transportation and shopping, so SIGGRAPH could pump nearly $50 million into the B.C. economy in just five days.

The last time a Vancouver convention got close to that attendance number, it was an international conference on AIDS in 1997 that drew 15,000 delegates.

“This is the strongest city-wide convention year ever in Vancouver’s history because of the expanded convention centre and because of the awareness around the Olympics,” Dave Gazley, vice-president for meeting and convention sales for Tourism Vancouver, said in a phone interview.

“A lot of these events were booked prior to the economic conditions in the U.S. market. Looking back we’ve probably got more than our fair share of major, large-scale U.S. meetings. With the expansion of our centre we were on the radar for a lot of folks. We’ve been fortunate to get some really good ones.”

Events such as SIGGRAPH don’t happen overnight.

Gazley noted that Tourism Vancouver has been pursuing SIGGRAPH’s annual conference business for two decades, but it was only after the new convention centre opened in 2009, in the lead-up to the Vancouver Winter Olympics, that it became possible to stage an event of this scope in a local, world-class facility.

The new building, which shares a plaza with the original convention centre at the foot of Howe Street in downtown Vancouver, tripled the capacity of the two-piece facility to 43,340 square metres.

“We work very closely with the convention centre, obviously, as the convention and visitor bureau for the city,” Gazley said.

“They do a lot of events that will go directly to the convention centre that we may not be involved with. The ones that we’re very in tune with, and in fact most times take the lead on bringing to Vancouver ­— with the convention centre being a big part of that — are what we refer to as the citywide conventions.

“Those are the major ones, the big groups of folks coming to town, using the convention centre, with lots of people staying in the hotels — they are the ones with the big spend and the big impact for the destination.”

Tourism Vancouver worked through a full-time manager it maintains in Chicago, the home base for SIGGRAPH.

“Their normal rotation is Los Angeles, San Diego and San Francisco, and this is the first time they’ve ever brought this event outside the U.S., Gazley said.

“We work very closely with the hotels at the front end to secure the rooms needed at competitive hotel rates, and with the convention centre and their space.”

Gazley recalled pitching Vancouver to SIGGRAPH back in the 1990s.

“We were always on their radar, but we really jumped out with the expansion of the centre. We talked to them. We put a proposal together. We put a compelling offer on the table.”

The other partner in the pursuit of SIGGRAPH was local members of the organization — which is strongly represented in Metro Vancouver through employees at companies such as Electronic Arts.

It’s a common practice for those making the convention pitch to draw in local people to help support their business case.

“We refer to it as the ‘Be A Host’ program,” Gazley said. “We don’t spend a tonne of money on advertising it. We try to do some very targeted things, specific to industries that are strong in B.C.

“It could be your neighbour, who is a certain type of plumber, a certain type of doctor, or lawyer. All of those groups have annual general meetings, and we try to get them to think about bringing them to Vancouver.”

Claire Smith, vice-president of sales and marketing for Vancouver Convention Centre calls it “finding local champions.

“The exciting thing about SIGGRAPH is that a lot of the hard work and credit is due to a local group of professionals in that field that wanted to showcase Vancouver to their colleagues,” Smith said.

“Working hand in hand with the graphics community here, they played a very active role in helping convince their society they should choose Vancouver.”

As well, Smith said, the main players need to show prospective groups that they’re working in harmony.

“The hotel community, Tourism Vancouver and the convention-centre team have to really work as one so that the client that we are interfacing with sees us as very easy to organize a convention with.

[email protected]


Vancouver Convention Centre
Fiscal year: 2010
Economic activity: $215 million
Event revenues: $21 million
Total attendance: 225,000 delegates
Non-B.C. attendance: 128,000 delegate days
Events: 350

Source: Vancouver Convention Centre

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

Read more: link
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  #2594  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2011, 10:48 PM
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I think ANS also had an article stating that convention attendance or revenues are at record levels in Halifax.

I've been to SIGGRAPH in LA and it is quite the event. People love going despite the fact that they are all quite comfortable communicating electronically -- there's a lot you just can't get unless you visit in person. Vancouver's new convention centre also looks pretty great and will be a great asset to the city. For SIGGRAPH for example it's easy to show off local businesses and universities in a way that would not be possible if the conference were located in LA.

The story in Halifax could be similar. The whole region would benefit because there would be a tier of conferences in the Maritimes that would otherwise simply not be possible. People hate to admit it but in many cases these things either happen in Halifax or they don't happen at all (because of the local population, airport, universities, and so forth). It makes sense for the federal government to build regional facilities in Halifax.

I do not know what Rank is up to exactly but it seems very unlikely that the project would die due to private concerns over office space or hotels. There's too much public money on the table.
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  #2595  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2011, 11:55 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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I do not know what Rank is up to exactly but it seems very unlikely that the project would die due to private concerns over office space or hotels. There's too much public money on the table.
I would tend to agree. They have a lease agreement for the 300,000 square feet (gross sq ft) in the convention centre and hopefully an agreement from the federal government for a $47 million lump sum payment when it is complete. I cannot think of any other project that would give them a better return on their money.

So what is the hold up? Maybe they are just reconsidering the design? Or dickering over the price?
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  #2596  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2011, 2:45 AM
pblaauw pblaauw is offline
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A small tangent that just popped into my head. Would the Nova Centre include a link to the series of tunnels that go from the Prince George to the Casino? I haven't heard anything about this, but it seems kind of silly not to connect it, even though would mean extending the tunnel SE-ward.
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  #2597  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2011, 3:07 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by pblaauw View Post
A small tangent that just popped into my head. Would the Nova Centre include a link to the series of tunnels that go from the Prince George to the Casino? I haven't heard anything about this, but it seems kind of silly not to connect it, even though would mean extending the tunnel SE-ward.
It is shown in the feasibility study done in May 2007 - page 43/314 of this pdf document https://conventioncentreinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Feasibility-Study-Vol-1.pdf . This is a big file (about 38 mbytes) so it will take about a minute to download.
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  #2598  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2011, 4:12 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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I suspect the hold up is financing in some form. Maybe not over offices specifically, but with the recent hick ups in world markets - they may be having to go through some extra steps to secure a loan?

I would also agree with Fenwick - I would think that Nova Centre would end up connected to the tunnel/pedway system via the Prince George. Although I suspect there might be some internal modification required in the PG to do that.
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  #2599  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2011, 4:32 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Btw - CBC 6 on news had news stories on both the convention centre and the Stadium. Not sure if anyone else did. www.cbc.ca/ns
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  #2600  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2011, 7:07 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
I suspect the hold up is financing in some form. Maybe not over offices specifically, but with the recent hick ups in world markets - they may be having to go through some extra steps to secure a loan?
I am sure the global financial situation has a bearing on this project as you stated.

However, I remembered reading sometime ago that Joe Ramia decided to step back (take a break) from this project a while ago. I was able to find the story on the internet which surprised me since Chronicle Herald stories usually aren't accessible after one week without paying for the story.

The story gave the impression that Joe Ramia just needed a break (wouldn't most people after having to deal with the Save the View group and the 3 levels of government? )

NOTE: this is an old story - Here is the story from June 14, 2011 which is almost 2 months ago. (source: http://dev3.thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1248464.html )
Quote:
No call yet on convention centre cash
Ottawa still thinking about request for funds
By STEPHEN MAHER Ottawa Bureau
Tue, Jun 14 - 4:54 AM
.
.
.
When the city and province asked Ottawa to fund the convention centre, Halifax developer Joe Ramia of Rank Inc. gave government until Jan. 15 to decide. He later extended the deadline to April 15. Provincial Infrastructure Minister Bill Estabrooks said last month that Ramia was considering his options.

"At this stage, he’s asked that we step back for a few weeks," Estabrooks said. "I want to be respectful of Joe Ramia as the developer, and at this time I’m going to allow him a few more weeks of thinking over his alternatives."
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