HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Transportation & Infrastructure


Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #8581  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2011, 10:48 PM
Mac Write Mac Write is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,423
Why did my D70 have to die 3 weeks ago today! New replacement won't be in until early next week!!!!
     
     
  #8582  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2011, 12:26 AM
Nutterbug Nutterbug is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
Sounds exactly like the RiverBus in London. Except in Vancouver, there isn't enough ridership to support such a service.
How about we start with rush hour service only? They're probably the only times it can compete with land based transit for speed when there's gridlock on the roads anyways.

Anyways, it looks like somebody stole my idea:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=211166484125141523081.000477aa4eb9c407ea9c6&msa=0
     
     
  #8583  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2011, 12:30 AM
Nutterbug Nutterbug is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
i wonder if once the evergreen line is done if a ferry from deep cove to port moody could be useful or feasible - might be a bit of a trek from the potential landing to the station but could be useful
How about Deep Cove to Belcarra, and buses can take you the rest of the way?

I'm surprised there isn't some kind of crossing there already.
     
     
  #8584  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2011, 4:37 AM
Zassk Zassk is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,303
Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
Sounds exactly like the RiverBus in London. Except in Vancouver, there isn't enough ridership to support such a service.
Many people here have discussed a rail link parallel to Marine Drive from Canada Line to New West. It seems to me that this RiverBus idea would accomplish exactly the same thing, but with much lower initial capital cost.
     
     
  #8585  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2011, 4:56 PM
aberdeen5698's Avatar
aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zassk View Post
Many people here have discussed a rail link parallel to Marine Drive from Canada Line to New West. It seems to me that this RiverBus idea would accomplish exactly the same thing, but with much lower initial capital cost.
...and much, much longer transit times and higher operating costs.
     
     
  #8586  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2011, 5:42 PM
Zassk Zassk is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,303
What would the transit time be? I figured 20 minutes which is not much different from what rail would have been, and would be competitive with the 410 bus.
     
     
  #8587  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2011, 8:38 PM
xd_1771's Avatar
xd_1771 xd_1771 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,745
A RiverBus would be quite slow actually (consider speed on water vs on land or even air)... on such a long route I have some doubts to its success, though I like that it makes use of existing ROW for low cost.

If it's not going to be any faster than the 410 (and chances are it won't be when the 410 is running via Hwy 91 instead of Fraserview) I'm still going to be using the 410.

I ride the 410 a lot, there's definitely some sort of alternative eventually going to be needed to connect the 22nd Street - Richmond corridor.... I was thinking a good short term option could be an express Highway 91 RapidBus (while the 410 remains to serve Cambie & Queensborough) to Brighouse station. I have seen a lot of people on the bus continue riding past where I usually get off around Aberdeen or Lansdowne. The entire 410 corridor (from 22nd to Richmond and then through to Steveston... perhaps via the Olympic Village & Gilbert) is something that I can see being viably served by a Calgary-style long distance at-grade LRT.
     
     
  #8588  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2011, 1:59 AM
aberdeen5698's Avatar
aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zassk View Post
What would the transit time be? I figured 20 minutes which is not much different from what rail would have been, and would be competitive with the 410 bus.
Well, the Seabus cruises at 11.5 knots, and a path I traced along the river in Google Earth worked out to about 9.5 nautical miles - so that equates to about 50 minutes. We can probably guess that average downstream transit times will be slightly shorter and upstream times slightly longer. And according to this web page, it uses about 10 times as much fuel per kilometre traveled as a diesel bus (although it also carries more people and the new Seabus is more fuel efficient).
     
     
  #8589  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2011, 2:38 AM
logan5's Avatar
logan5 logan5 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 8,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by aberdeen5698 View Post
Well, the Seabus cruises at 11.5 knots, and a path I traced along the river in Google Earth worked out to about 9.5 nautical miles - so that equates to about 50 minutes. We can probably guess that average downstream transit times will be slightly shorter and upstream times slightly longer. And according to this web page, it uses about 10 times as much fuel per kilometre traveled as a diesel bus (although it also carries more people and the new Seabus is more fuel efficient).
The Seabus is painfully slow. A foilcat can cruise at 45 knots, better fuel efficiency, lower wakes, and they're relatively stable.
Travel time = 12 minutes.
     
     
  #8590  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2011, 4:57 AM
aberdeen5698's Avatar
aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
The Seabus is painfully slow. A foilcat can cruise at 45 knots, better fuel efficiency, lower wakes, and they're relatively stable.
Travel time = 12 minutes.
There can still be still some significant wake issues during arrival and departure, and I suspect that 45-knot speeds would not be welcomed in the relatively narrow confines of a river with a lot of slow-moving large-footprint industrial traffic.

And I gotta tell ya, after the fast ferry debacle (yes, I know they weren't hydrofoils) you'd have a hard time selling it here.
     
     
  #8591  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2011, 10:13 PM
SpongeG's Avatar
SpongeG SpongeG is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 40,137
i rode the streetcar on sunday, it wasn't very busy at all, they don't have any advertising budget, too bad its a great link from canada line to granville island
     
     
  #8592  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2011, 6:45 AM
Vonny Vonny is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by xd_1771 View Post
A RiverBus would be quite slow actually (consider speed on water vs on land or even air)... on such a long route I have some doubts to its success, though I like that it makes use of existing ROW for low cost.

If it's not going to be any faster than the 410 (and chances are it won't be when the 410 is running via Hwy 91 instead of Fraserview) I'm still going to be using the 410.

I ride the 410 a lot, there's definitely some sort of alternative eventually going to be needed to connect the 22nd Street - Richmond corridor.... I was thinking a good short term option could be an express Highway 91 RapidBus (while the 410 remains to serve Cambie & Queensborough) to Brighouse station. I have seen a lot of people on the bus continue riding past where I usually get off around Aberdeen or Lansdowne. The entire 410 corridor (from 22nd to Richmond and then through to Steveston... perhaps via the Olympic Village & Gilbert) is something that I can see being viably served by a Calgary-style long distance at-grade LRT.
Yes, I was thinking the same, the alternative could look like below (route 411 in yellow)


and a suggested implementation of this 410 express is here:
then you could expect to do 22nd station-Brighouse in 30mn or less
     
     
  #8593  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2011, 7:20 AM
McPaul McPaul is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 399
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
i rode the streetcar on sunday, it wasn't very busy at all, they don't have any advertising budget, too bad its a great link from canada line to granville island
Had no idea there was a streetcar. It's not on the trans ink website. Where? Sounds like a fun ride.
     
     
  #8594  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2011, 9:26 AM
GeeCee's Avatar
GeeCee GeeCee is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by McPaul View Post
Had no idea there was a streetcar. It's not on the trans ink website. Where? Sounds like a fun ride.
It's not actually operated by TransLink.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_Downtown_Historic_Railway

http://www.trams.ca/dhr.html
     
     
  #8595  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2011, 11:41 PM
SpongeG's Avatar
SpongeG SpongeG is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 40,137
yeah its separate run by volunteers, a friend of mine is one of them, its $2 there and back

apparently on canada day the streetcar was packed all day - they did pretty well

so spread the word - they have no money to advertise... and try use it if you can
     
     
  #8596  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2011, 5:12 AM
McPaul McPaul is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 399
So, dumb newbie b line question...

How do you get the 99 to stop and let you on?
I was at the 99 stop on main st and 3 of em passed right by me. Finally it picked me up on the way back, at alder, or wherever it was... But there was a crowd waiting with me. Is there a secret handshake?

I've seen people get on at the back doors of the bus. Gould I have reported them? I certainly don't like fare skippers, and this us a perfect example of riders not paying a fare. Driver didn't say anything, though.

And an observation... People around here tend to line up for the bus and stay there, rather than the milling about that happened in Calgary. That just makes me laugh.
     
     
  #8597  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2011, 5:41 AM
bardak bardak is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by McPaul View Post
So, dumb newbie b line question...

How do you get the 99 to stop and let you on?
I was at the 99 stop on main st and 3 of em passed right by me. Finally it picked me up on the way back, at alder, or wherever it was... But there was a crowd waiting with me. Is there a secret handshake?
The 99b-line is one of the busiest bus routs in North America and as a result there pass-ups often. The route is over capacity and everything that could be done short of dedicated lanes has been has been even duplicate service along 4th ave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McPaul View Post
I've seen people get on at the back doors of the bus. Gould I have reported them? I certainly don't like fare skippers, and this us a perfect example of riders not paying a fare. Driver didn't say anything, though.
As part of an effort to increase capacity on the line they have implement all door boarding on the 99. As long as you have a valid fare you may board at any door. You only need to use the front if you are paying cash or validating a ticket.
     
     
  #8598  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2011, 6:41 AM
xd_1771's Avatar
xd_1771 xd_1771 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,745
Quote:
I was at the 99 stop on main st and 3 of em passed right by me. Finally it picked me up on the way back, at alder, or wherever it was... But there was a crowd waiting with me. Is there a secret handshake?
I was at Commercial-Broadway today waiting for a 20, and and three 99 B-Lines came to the unloading area and emptied - all full, I think - within around 2 minutes. Perhaps these were the buses you were mentioning? Maybe they couldn't let you on because they were all too full.

The all door boarding thing is a standard thing on the 99 B-Line AFAIK also.

--

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vonny View Post
Yes, I was thinking the same, the alternative could look like below (route 411 in yellow)

and a suggested implementation of this 410 express is here:
then you could expect to do 22nd station-Brighouse in 30mn or less
Though I don't usually ride past Aberdeen or Lansdowne often I think there could be a huge regional travel benefit to a 411 rapidbus line - in the future, when more capacity is needed. It might help to run this as a full companion to the 410 - i.e. some 411 services to Brighouse only, some continuing to Steveston - this'll give the option of a one seat ride between Steveston/22nd St or vice versa along the faster route 91 corridor as opposed to Cambie.

I have also been thinking..... an LRT or other ground-level rail line with separation (railway crossings & separate row, but ground level - Calgary style basically) could work along this corridor, IF the capacity warrants it. My version would follow a slightly different corridor though, mostly old railway corridors that can be used at low cost; it'd run from 22nd St along Marine through the S. Burnaby industrial area, curve south and crosses near the Knight St Bridge, curve left to follow an old railway route and pass the night market area to connections at Bridgeport Station, runs parallel west of the Canada Line along a slightly different row with connections to Aberdeen Centre and the Richmond Olympic Oval - then from there it'll follow River Rd along McCallan, turn south to follow McCallan and an empty corridor, and then follow Railway Avenue into Steveston. It doesn't connect to Brighouse, I'm thinking that might be a downer in the long run, but again it wouldn't be a total 410 or 411 express replacement. It can serve the general Richmond-New West & beyond commute as well as commutes into and out of the S. Burnaby industrial area. It'll be a hit in the summer with the night market, as it'll allow for much better connections to from the east (many of the people I know in Surrey just drive there, because with transit it can require 3-4 transfers depending on where you're coming from) as well as the west. Plus it connects with the Olympic Oval, a common recreational destination and place to host events. By following old railway corridors along the ground level with virtually no need for property reclaiming or moving of road lanes whatnot, it'll be inexpensive to construct (at least along the long-distance corridors... the bridges over the Fraser River may change that), and can provide for a higher speed connection (only in Steveston would it assume a slower, more streetcar-like form).

Concept (click to enlarge):

This is something I'm still somewhat unsure about though.... while it could provide a decent benefit, would it ever be needed anytime before 2040? The 410 and 411 and even 100 already serve the corridor, and not badly enough to choke; other bus improvements could make the Olympic Oval and Night Market as well as the Burnaby industrial area significantly more accessible. There's not really (m)any growth corridors to serve, other than perhaps Steveston; it's mostly a point to point thing.

Last edited by xd_1771; Aug 5, 2011 at 9:31 AM.
     
     
  #8599  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2011, 8:36 AM
nname nname is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,107
I've heard plan of splitting the 410 Hwy91 and Fraserwood into two different routes as part of the Canada Line integration... Maybe it was in the second phase that never materialized?
     
     
  #8600  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2011, 9:45 AM
xd_1771's Avatar
xd_1771 xd_1771 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,745
The Fraserwood route can add around 10 minutes... not awfully bad, actually. I did once actually miss an appointment in Richmond due to the Fraserwood routing, unfortunately, but it was nothing big and nothing I'm worried about. Fraserwood is not really a majority in terms of on/off movements on the 410 (compared to other corridors it serves) though, so I don't see why the majority of peak hour 410s should redirect to Fraserwood. That area could perhaps get its own route, perhaps as a limited service 410 running alongside (and not cutting into) the 410 schedule.

A 411 bus route might completely negate the need for that though, and would be much better for through travellers as well as local commuters on the 410 corridors.

Last edited by xd_1771; Aug 5, 2011 at 7:32 PM.
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Transportation & Infrastructure
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:37 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.