LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[DistrictDirt]

Originally Posted by LA/OCman

Both the Pattern Bar on 9th and Perch (Hill and 5th) opened Downtown last week. I had an opportunity to visit both and was blown away. The Pattern Bar is across the street from Wood Spoon (popular Brazilian restaurant) on a corner near Spring St. and brings this part of DTLA to life. Huge windows, historic space, great bar and Argentinean Tapas...surprisingly the food is excellent. This place will change people's perception of the Fashion District at night.

Pattern Bar is my new favorite spot downtown. Great tapas, great beers on tap, and interesting cocktails. Also, a friend of mine from DC is doing a weekly party there on Thursdays, so I am a bit biased

Currently the place isn't annoyingly crowded but judging by every other bar downtown, I expect that to change soon once the word gets out.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by JDRCRASH

By the way, i'm sorry if I sound like i'm attacking you.

don't worry about that, jdr. I think if more ppl in LA were like many of the SSPers in this thread, including you, Brigham, bobcat, lasf, illthid, westsidelife, threehundred, colemonkee, etc, etc----meaning ppl who are interested in improving where they live, work and socialize----the city probably never would have gone so far downhill to begin with, or would've been turned around alot longer ago.

[LAofAnaheim]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

^ That and the Adaptive Reuse Ordnance. Both were HUGELY important with the rebirth of downtown.

Fully agree with this statement. People tend to forget the 1999 Adaptive Reuse law that allowed old abandoned office buildings to be converted to residential use without parking minimums or changes to the external facade.

The 'burbanites may think it's Staples Center, but it was truly Adaptive Reuse that revitalizsed the Historic Core.

[Illithid Dude]

I wouldn't be so sure that DTLA will never Manhattanize. It only takes one building boom for something like that to happen. Look at Miami for instance, with it's huge amount of construction in recent years. It's now the third biggest high-rise city in America. Vegas, also, is now a huge high-rise city. Both of those cities didn't even really have demand for that type of urban lifestyle before the boom. Imagine us. Our city now has major demand for that kind of lifestyle. Imagine that kind of boom in a city that has demand. Of course, unlike other cities, our boom would be spread out across multiple urban districts, but still. DTLA already does technically tower of the rest of the city, as it is the biggest high rise district we have (not counting Wilshire, which while technically having more high rises has much shorter high rises). Moreover, DTLA is the only place in the city besides maybe Hollywood that has a very dense, and (if we much keep the comparisons consistent) very Manhattan historic building area. With places like Spring, there are only a few empty lots left to fill before we have a fully completed high density, urban, and high rise street. That to me is about as Manhattan as you can get.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Originally Posted by bobcat

Looking at the other renderings I think Metropolis actually looks ok, at least the Francisco St facade does. The side facing the freeway isn't so hot, but I can live with that.

I think the renderings are still a rough sketch and isn't quite yet refined enough to give us a definitive idea of what the design will be like. However, it does give us a very good idea of the scale and potential activation of the sidewalk along Francisco St.

It is now more important than ever for FIGat7th to address the street not only on Figueroa, which is what we've been focusing on, but also 8th street, which will front the hotel portion of Metropolis. It is very important for FIGat7th to create a welcoming and accessible entrance on 8th Street/Francisco to encourage the crossflow between FIGat7th and the proposed Metropolis retail project.

[Quixote]

Went to Bottega Louie for dinner tonight. Restaurant Row has really transformed 7th Street into a nightlife hub. Bottega, Mas Malo, and Dublin's were still jam-packed when I left Downtown at a little past 11:00. In fact, there were people at Bottega still waiting to be served.

My Downtown has come a long way.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

there is one thing that REALLY pisses me off regarding the Civic park....

Why the Hell didnt that unattended, gated lot on the corner of spring and 1st get incorporated into the parks design? no one wants to take care of it, so its full of garbage and tagging, and sticks out like a sore thumb. Honestly, how did they not figure this out when they were planning the park. for christ sake, its literally across from City Hall.

I believe you're talking about the abandoned foundation of what used to be a gov't building, which I believe the state now owns.

It is VERY unfortunate that this particular eyesore was not incorporated into the Civic Park's initial design, but I am confident that once the park is finished, and if it is successful, it will prompt further improvements such as the incorporation of this eyesore site into the park.

My main beef with the Civic Park will always be those disgusting County buildings that will restrict the full potential of the Civic Park until they are demolished and removed to make way for a full-scale park.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Originally Posted by RuFFy

I'm curious to know if new retail space in south park will motivate the Macy*s Plaza owners to update.

Most likely not. The owners of Macy's Plaza (Jamison Properties) has not shown, historically, to invest much money in their own properties. Keep rents low, occupancy high (cash flow in).

The best chance we have at getting Macy's Plaza to be remodeled is if another developer with vision and experience in urban development comes in and buys Macy's Plaza, tears it down (remodel the two towers), and rebuilds the rest from the ground up.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Originally Posted by Westsidelife

Went to Bottega Louie for dinner tonight. Restaurant Row has really transformed 7th Street into a nightlife hub. Bottega, Mas Malo, and Dublin's were still jam-packed when I left Downtown at a little past 11:00. In fact, there were people at Bottega still waiting to be served.

My Downtown has come a long way.

Yes, and there are a few more nightlife establishments coming to 7th Street including Salvage Lounge at the Roosevelt that will make the street an even livelier place at night.

The issue right now is a LACK of suitable retail space as much of the most attractive retail spaces have been snatched up recently. I expect to see some more leasing activity along Olive St as it is the path of least resistance going east. Now, as demand continues to grow, it will start to finally enter into the very difficult to uproot Historic Core areas of Hill St and Broadway.

[milquetoast]

Originally Posted by citywatch

thanks for providing that link. however, after trying to open the page, I had to google the name & found out it's collarMELE.com, not collarmeler.

Corrected! (How did that "r" find its way in there?)

Originally Posted by citywatch

And it would replace one of the biggest deadzones in all of DT, visible to millions of ppl who drive by on the fwy each yr.

I don't want this visible from the freeway! I don't want this anywhere near LA LIVE!

This belongs next to the proposed stadium in the City of Industry.

Originally Posted by BrighamYen

Plus, the project ranges from 4 to 12 to 16 stories in height, which is hardly something to sneer at. Remember, great cities like Madrid, London, or Paris are made up with a majority of buildings in that height range, if not even shorter.

Yes, but those structures have architectural quality, and this doesn't even qualify for mid rise infill- especially on this site! Why build something like this on a parcel that probably packed a substantial amount for the past 20 something years. Coincidentally, that's the amount of time this city went without architectural substance in Class A office. A global economy ranked third behind Tokyo and New York? I'm starting to get a little miffed up here in Vegas!

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

Metropolis is going to be VERY important in tying in LA Live with the rest of downtown. Could it be taller? Yes. Does it have to be in order for it to be successful? Not at all. And it's bound to be redesigned and redesigned so hold your bladders people. Everything important doesn't need to be 50 stories tall.

How much you want to bet it ends up smaller?

Originally Posted by alki

Originally posted by milquetoast L.A. Live is fine. Though ugly and monolothic,...

I agree with what you wrote about Met's arch being "lame", but Illithid wrote the above coment ^^ Also, sick and tired of hearing about how Los Angeles is "built out!" I see nothing but parking lots masquerading as expensive parcels!

[bobcat]

Did a little more digging and found this Metropolis promo video on Youtube posted back in Dec. Can't believe nobody caught it.

• Video Link

[202_Cyclist]

AEG football stadium could be win-win — if L.A. plays it smart


There are still plenty of points on which Los Angeles could be bamboozled or steamrollered.


L.A. Councilman Bill Rosendahl found a flier on his doorstep pushing for a downtown stadium. Council members Jan Perry and Tom LaBonge flank him. (Brian van der Brug, Los Angeles Times / July 31, 2011)

By Michael Hiltzik
July 31, 2011
Los Angeles Times

"Take it from me: If you attend a City Hall hearing on the proposed downtown pro football stadium/convention center project, you better be spry enough to keep out of the way of the stampede.

I refer to the stampede by downtown politicians, business groups and construction unions to drape the proposal with the label of that elusive municipal quarry, the "win-win." That was the case at a hearing last week of the Los Angeles City Council's ad hoc committee on the downtown project, which convened to consider the tentative memorandum of understanding, or MOU, negotiated by city officials with AEG, the operator of Staples Center and the L.A. Live entertainment complex..."

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-fi-...+Local+News%29&utm_content=Google+Reader

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by BrighamYen

I believe you're talking about the abandoned foundation of what used to be a gov't building, which I believe the state now owns.

It is VERY unfortunate that this particular eyesore was not incorporated into the Civic Park's initial design, but I am confident that once the park is finished, and if it is successful, it will prompt further improvements such as the incorporation of this eyesore site into the park.

My main beef with the Civic Park will always be those disgusting County buildings that will restrict the full potential of the Civic Park until they are demolished and removed to make way for a full-scale park.

oh agreed 100%

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by BrighamYen

Yes, and there are a few more nightlife establishments coming to 7th Street including Salvage Lounge at the Roosevelt that will make the street an even livelier place at night.

The issue right now is a LACK of suitable retail space as much of the most attractive retail spaces have been snatched up recently. I expect to see some more leasing activity along Olive St as it is the path of least resistance going east. Now, as demand continues to grow, it will start to finally enter into the very difficult to uproot Historic Core areas of Hill St and Broadway.

As I have said on your website, right now Downtown has an unsustainable amount of restaurants either already in place or being built out right now. As the lesser of those restaurants start to go out of business, there will be new vacancy where retail would be able to go in. And don't worry, I notice plenty of vacancy along Spring and 7th as it is. Even right across from Bottega Louie there is a giant empty spot, easily a prime retail location. Between the two entirely plausible scenarios I just presented, I would think that retail would stay in what is the current hub of downtown, not go and create a new hub like the Olive St. you propose.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

As I have said on your website, right now Downtown has an unsustainable amount of restaurants either already in place or being built out right now. As the lesser of those restaurants start to go out of business, there will be new vacancy where retail would be able to go in. And don't worry, I notice plenty of vacancy along Spring and 7th as it is. Even right across from Bottega Louie there is a giant empty spot, easily a prime retail location. Between the two entirely plausible scenarios I just presented, I would think that retail would stay in what is the current hub of downtown, not go and create a new hub like the Olive St. you propose.

Downtown LA is far, far from having an unsustainable amount of restaurants in relation to the amount of people that live, work, and play downtown (figures point to about half a million on a busy weekday). And you're talking about an unique area with the rail infrastructure to funnel in thousands and thousands more (especially USC students once the Expo Line opens). Hell, there are more restaurants in Monterey Park alone, which is about the same size as Downtown LA in terms of resident population (I think MPK has about 60K people). Downtown LA will become a regional draw and at this point there isn't enough of ANYTHING (except bars/nightlife) to make it stand out among the satellite cities such as Santa Monica, Pasadena, Beverly Hills, Glendale, West Hollywood, etc. All these satellite cities have more concentrations of restaurants and definitely retailers than DTLA.

Downtown LA has plenty of room to continue to grow and infill with new restaurants as it is still sparse and spread out. What will happen of course are restaurants that don't have a concept that is accepted by the local population, such as Eco-Asian, and will fail as a result. However, most restaurants that go out will attract new restaurants because of the very expensive infrastructure that exist within the space (the hood, grease interceptor, venting, etc.), so unlikely to be replaced a retailer. What downtown does need is to diversify the restaurant choices offered in such a diverse metropolitan region.

Currently there is no hub of retail because there is no retail generally speaking (except for a few popping up on Spring Street). The first major retail project will be FIGat7th, which will create an interesting situation since there are no empty commercial spaces to capture the "spill over effect" nearby, which is why I surmise that Olive St, Hill St, and Broadway will become the true retail hub of DTLA. Remember, retailers LOVE to be back-to-back to each other as seen in Old Pasadena, Third Street Promenade, Soho, 5th/Park Aves, 16th Street Mall (Denver), etc. In Downtown LA, there is no better ideal situation for retailers than the Historic Core on those three streets because they were built for pedestrians with back-to-back, pretty much uninterrupted commercial spaces.

Also I am not aware of any large vacant retail space across from Bottega Louie? Are you talking about the old Okada space? And is one or two empty retail spaces on 7th Street enough to become a retail hub? How many retailers are in Old Pasadena alone? 50 or more perhaps?

[Illithid Dude]

Brigham, you raise a lot of good points. I'm not going to quote you because you've written so much, but I think you'll be able to figure out that I am directly replying to you without that blob of quotation hovering above my writing. While I agree that an urban node is able to support many restaurants, I don't know how much downtown can in this case. Something like downtown Santa Monica obviously has a lot of condos. However, in Santa Monica's case, they were all built steadily over the last twenty years or so. Imagine if all of those condos were built at once. Obviously there would be condo buildings that have very high vacancy rates, and there would be condos that go into foreclosure due to the fact that there are very few people buying. The condos are built more quickly then the demand can buy them, and because of that there is a period of times where the condos turn into apartments, or hotels, so that the amount of condos and the amount of demand can be brought down to the same level. That is what is happening in downtown right now. Not with condos of course, but with restaurants. Over this year alone 20 new restaurants have opened up in downtown. This is a restaurant boom, not a steady growth of restaurants so that demand can be met evenly. With every boom there is a bust, without exception. Eventually, there will be a bust for this boom as well. You raise some good points about how retail would not be able to fill the place of a defunct restaurant, though.

Oh, and that retail space next to Bottega Louie is across the street on Grand in that shinny, white, terracotta building that houses sugarFISH.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

With every boom there is a bust, without exception. Eventually, there will be a bust for this boom as well. You raise some good points about how retail would not be able to fill the place of a defunct restaurant, though.

This restaurant boom fills a demand based on the amount of permanent residents that live in Downtown LA. Twenty restaurants opening up in a couple of years is hardly unsustainable, but just meets the very basic requirements of a "starving" population of workers, residents, and now also an influx of visitors generated by an overall awareness of DTLA's recent revitalization as well as increased convention center business. I don't think this particularly boom will bust anytime soon. If anything, restaurant turn over rate will reflect the evolving preferences and tastes of the market akin to other highly competitive restaurant regions like Monterey Park, where restaurants come and go annually.

Oh, and that retail space next to Bottega Louie is across the street on Grand in that shinny, white, terracotta building that houses sugarFISH.

That space is accounted for in the Robinson's building, that's why I didn't know what you were referring to. It is currently being built out and It will be a restaurant.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

I will say that we DO NEED even more middle range to cheaper restaurants downtown for every day munching needs. There's been a consensus I think within the DTLA community that we are coming to a saturation point for high end restaurants like Chaya or Drago. I would like to see more middle range restaurants like Soi 7, Mas Malo, Casa, or Orochon open up in DTLA.

[Illithid Dude]

I suppose though, not matter how much we argue about it, the only way to see what really comes into fruition is to wait and, well, see. I admit, I am a more pessimistic person then you seem to be. It is entirely possible that you are right, and that DT can very well support the amount of restaurants that it is getting. To use that heavily cliched phrase, we just gotta wait and see.

Anyways, doesn't anybody know what is happening with H&M and Urban Outfitters. I recall in a news article a while back that both retailers were actively looking for a space for a store in DLTA. Anybody know if they found one?

[DistrictDirt]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

Brigham, you raise a lot of good points. I'm not going to quote you because you've written so much, but I think you'll be able to figure out that I am directly replying to you without that blob of quotation hovering above my writing. While I agree that an urban node is able to support many restaurants, I don't know how much downtown can in this case. Something like downtown Santa Monica obviously has a lot of condos. However, in Santa Monica's case, they were all built steadily over the last twenty years or so. Imagine if all of those condos were built at once. Obviously there would be condo buildings that have very high vacancy rates, and there would be condos that go into foreclosure due to the fact that there are very few people buying. The condos are built more quickly then the demand can buy them, and because of that there is a period of times where the condos turn into apartments, or hotels, so that the amount of condos and the amount of demand can be brought down to the same level. That is what is happening in downtown right now. Not with condos of course, but with restaurants. Over this year alone 20 new restaurants have opened up in downtown. This is a restaurant boom, not a steady growth of restaurants so that demand can be met evenly. With every boom there is a bust, without exception. Eventually, there will be a bust for this boom as well. You raise some good points about how retail would not be able to fill the place of a defunct restaurant, though.

Oh, and that retail space next to Bottega Louie is across the street on Grand in that shinny, white, terracotta building that houses sugarFISH.

You don't need to do any fancy real-estate development research to determine if DTLA has an unsustainable amount of restaurants; just walk into the restaurants on 7th and see how crowded they are. DTLA could handle many more.