DENVER | Transportation Thread

[Cirrus]

Oddly, it's the lower income groups that have been the most resistant to alternative transportation in DC, both for bicycles and transit. For some reason that nobody can quite figure out (and is the impetus for articles like Buntie's link), the people who can least afford to drive everywhere are also turning out to be the least willing to try more affordable modes.

Take a look at this map from last year showing usage of bikesharing stations in DC. The wealthiest part of the city is slightly to the upper left, where usage is highest. The poorest part of the city is the section on the right side of the map, cut off from the rest by the river. Look how lightly used the stations in the poor area are, even compared to periphery stations in other areas:

[The Dirt]

I think there is a tendency for the poor to distance themselves from the very poor via spending habits and status symbols. They don't want to be perceived as poor or unsuccessful and lumped in with "those people". My wife sees a lot of Medicaid patients, and the majority of them fit this stereotype:
- obese
- drive a BMW or some other luxury brand
- mom has a Burberry handbag
- mom wears expensive-looking jewelry and large diamonds that are otherwise poor quality
- kids wear Air Jordans and expensive clothes

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

I think there is a tendency for the poor to distance themselves from the very poor via spending habits and status symbols. They don't want to be perceived as poor or unsuccessful and lumped in with "those people". My wife sees a lot of Medicaid patients, and the majority of them fit this stereotype:
- obese
- drive a BMW or some other luxury brand
- mom has a Burberry handbag
- mom wears expensive-looking jewelry and large diamonds that are otherwise poor quality
- kids wear Air Jordans and expensive clothes

When people are away from their miserable apartment, or when when people are away from a house they quit paying mortgage payments on, I suspect the urge is not to let the rest of the world know their true circumstances.

Always been that way, I suppose.

I suspect- referencing Cirrus's comments- that people who work very hard physically or mentally (not stimulating but grinding...)- particularly in highly repetitious jobs (the lower paying jobs basically) have almost no desire to bike to work. Maybe, at least for some, driving the car provides respite from their jobs and represents the last privilege in their lives, compared to those one notch below them economically.

I see it every day on I-25 when I commute by car- not just people living beyond their means, but more 'why the H*ll not, I am a nobody...so let's pretend. Fellow driver, you'll never know me, so you DON'T know how poor I am and you never will.'

As the grip of our Nation's increasing poverty continues to tighten, I am sure that we will see much more of this vicarious living through vehicles and clothing.

"Life is short so I am going to enjoy life on Friday night (stay home and watch — on TV on Saturday and Sunday and go back- if I am lucky- to that low paying job on Monday I hate so much.)"

[Wizened Variations]

I am a steel rail fan, not a politician. What is power to me? "Don't have it, never will." So I am free to talk without risking future gain.

So-

The next phase of the Taj line being force fed into DUS is underway. Great for Lodo, but no one going to Metro is going to want to walk from the new Auraria to the Library. By light rail it will take two transfers (including the 16th Mall Shuttle) either way.

Got to take the shuttle bus, or a bike, I guess. Sure get tired of standing at the end of the with my bike, particularly in January when I have to go home after a 5p-7p class.

The downtime also from 07/23 to 8/14 (Go Broncos! premier preseason games) includes removing the third leg of the old triangle switch between Uptown line and the DUS line. This removes the easy possibility of spending a few tens of millions and getting the Taj line to have a few trains making the Stout and California 18th Street circuit.

I had imagined a single car light rail train- that would go from Union Station and then turn east, then make the 18th Street loop. I could imagine this become free, like the 16th Street Mall Bus. From Champa and 16th to the West Auraria Station in about 5 minutes.

Talk about a TOD possibility!

How about 3000 transfers a day (if the Taj train had through trains on the Uptown line 25,000 or so would transer stay on the light rail and pass thorugh the station.. If the DUS line could turn left at Colfax and merge with the Upton line 10,000 or more would one stop transfer.

Of course, many extremely bright people have already figured this out...so that is why it is not being done (money, money, money). Nope, instead you will have to take the 16th Mall Shuttle or the Circulator 13 blocks then wait at the station, then take another 3 or 4 minutes to get to West Auraria. What about the theatre district connections? What about Glenarm and Tremont? Certainly radically reduces the number of student apartments along the eastern portion of the Taj line.

But, history has way of working it all out. At point critical in the surprisingly near future many of the current powers at be will say "we never thought of that possibility..." LOL

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Wizened Variations

The next phase of the Taj line being force fed into DUS is underway. Great for Lodo, but no one going to Metro is going to want to walk from the new Auraria to the Library. By light rail it will take two transfers (including the 16th Mall Shuttle) either way.

Got to take the shuttle bus, or a bike, I guess. Sure get tired of standing at the end of the with my bike, particularly in January when I have to go home after a 5p-7p class.

Thousands of students walk from the satellite parking lots every damn day which is a hell of a lot further.. They'll walk from the new station as well. It's 1200 feet from the Colfax station to the library and 2100 feet from the new Auraria West station to the library. Nine hundred feet isn't much.

The economic incentive of riding the train versus parking outweighs the distance you have to walk. Even more so now that the supply of parking has been reduced even more.

[Wizened Variations]

Ah, but with better design the setup could have been so cool

Remember transportation times are additive. Walk 2100' feet and wait for a train, maybe 15 minutes or more depending on your luck, on the Taj line. Add that time to the ride time, and, the time from station to residence. Do it when the weather is miserable.

Good design encourages use. Economics alone forces use.

Look at http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=e...31&spn=0.012671,0.019312&z=14&iwloc=addr

The scale is about .85"/500 feet. Look at the Community College of Denver, here the walking distance is about 2000' shorter. Yes I agree that the Library is about 1000' feet closer to the Colfax light rail station.

If you take a compass make an arc from the new Auraria West Station and another from the Colfax station they intersect with an equidistant arc at about the base ball diamond toward the upper right, just south of Auraria Parkway.

[dmintz]

denver bcycle reaches 100,000 rides this season-

http://denver.bcycle.com/News.aspx?itemid=145

I really wish the city and state would invest more into expanding this program beyond downtown. if there were more stations in capitol hill, wash park, highlands, etc I think a lot more locals would use them. With boston starting up their bike share this week with 60 stations, denver has gone from having the largest program in the country to one of the smallest (DC, Minneapolis and Boston all have more stations).

[The Dirt]

I thought that they are a private enterprise, so the city and state aren't involved much in funding them. I believe that they are expanding rather aggressively, and they're supposed to be reaching as far as Stapleton in the coming years. Looking at their station map, it's nice to see that they've invested in smaller "islands" of stations around DU and Cherry Creek. It seems that a West Highland and City Park are natural directions of expansion.

[Cirrus]

denver has gone from having the largest program in the country to one of the smallest (DC, Minneapolis and Boston all have more stations).

That's not really fair. By my count Denver has the 5th largest bikesharing system in the United States (Miami Beach is also bigger). While it's true that that means it is the smallest system out of the five major US networks, it is still in the very top tier. The vast majority of US cities don't have bikesharing at all, and many of those that do have tiny systems with only a few dozen bikes that are really nothing more than pilot programs.

I agree that Denver needs to expand the network, and even agree that it has fallen behind, from "bleeding edge" to merely "ahead of the pack", but it goes too far to say Denver's system is "one of the smallest".

[SnyderBock]

They did a substantial expansion in Boulder this year, instead of expanding the actual Denver system.

[dmintz]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

I thought that they are a private enterprise, so the city and state aren't involved much in funding them.

Denver bike share prides itself on not being funded by taxpayers to placate the dan maes naysayers but they are applying for state and federal grants. I still don't understand why its ok to spend 40 million for the stapleton I70 exchange, but not spend a fraction of that amount to bring bike share to stapleton and other neighborhoods.

I agree that Denver needs to expand the network, and even agree that it has fallen behind, from "bleeding edge" to merely "ahead of the pack", but it goes too far to say Denver's system is "one of the smallest".

When it comes to bike infrastructure in general, denver is falling far behind other major cities. NYC, SF and Chicago are building out bike lanes and cycle tracks at an astonishing rate while denver seems to be gaining only a couple miles of lanes a year. Biking in denver apart from the bike paths along the rivers is still a scary proposition for the unexperienced.

[Okayyou]

I bike a good amount and have noticed Denver is well set up if you want to bike for exersize. Long undisturbed paths along cherry creek and the platte let you bike for miles without stopping. This city is less equipped for bicycle transit. How am I supposed to get to the highlands? 15th? Cars travel pretty fast, maybe ok for experienced bikers but. Through the CPV on the ped bridges? Not a bad choice but by no means efficient. 20th? Worse than 15th. I can't think of one street that has curb separated bike lanes like this:



source

I had a lot of co-workers that commuted by car 20 + miles during the week and then would ride 50 miles on the weekend. Biking for transit wasn't their MO.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by dmintz

I still don't understand why its ok to spend 40 million for the stapleton I70 exchange, but not spend a fraction of that amount to bring bike share to stapleton and other neighborhoods.

You said it yourself. Bike sharing is a UN conspiracy to wrest control of our cities away from us!

[dmintz]

Originally Posted by Okayyou

I bike a good amount and have noticed Denver is well set up if you want to bike for exersize. Long undisturbed paths along cherry creek and the platte let you bike for miles without stopping. This city is less equipped for bicycle transit. How am I supposed to get to the highlands? 15th? Cars travel pretty fast, maybe ok for experienced bikers but. Through the CPV on the ped bridges? Not a bad choice but by no means efficient. 20th? Worse than 15th. I can't think of one street that has curb separated bike lanes like this:

There is a new separated bike lane on bannock along civic center and possibly one planned for 15th st in lodo (but not connecting to lower highlands), but given denver's wide streets and fast moving traffic, there is no excuse not to give more protected space to bike commuters. I was especially disappointed in denver moves lack of ambition in recommending so few miles of cycle tracks. this would not require a large financial investment. a few strategically placed bollards can go a long way in designating a lane for bike traffic.

[bunt_q]

I hate to play devil's advocate, but I have never thought of central Denver's streets as particularly wide. To stick with the current discussion - I cannot think of a single road connecting to Highland that I would call wide, and where I think a separated bike lane would work without significant (and unacceptable) impacts on auto traffic. Side streets are your best bet - like what's been done with 16th Avenue east of Colfax. You start talking about chopping away lanes on 15th, 20th, etc., a well-deserved citizens' uproar will come down on your head. The silent majority who have absolutely zero intention of ever biking for any purpose but recreation will want no part of that.

Can anybody tell me what these large bicycle get-togethers are that are popping up? I've seen them mostly after Rockies games, but not only then. Colorful, hippy types, who are obviously out cruising in large groups to make a pro-bicycle political statement. Complete with obnoxious antics, swerving in front of/across moving traffic, blocking traffic intentionally to allow for a little show in the street. Bicycle flash mobs, basically. Anybody know what they are? Somebody is going to get killed, and they will get little sympathy from me when they do. It's the worst form of civic unrest - the kind that turns more people off to your cause than wins you supporters. I am quickly turning from generally ambivalent to actively anti-bicycle.

Now, I don't see bicycles as a UN conspiracy... but I also have little patience for fringe Boulder-ey trends when they start interfering with my life. The middle of 17th Street is not the place to put on a show to get yourself laid.

[awholeparade]

How is the pedestrian bridge not a great way to get into The Highlands by bike? How is 15th not an option? It's not like 15th is a scary, major road.

As far as B-cycle stations go, it's completely absurd that they don't extend out to any of the Broadway/Baker district shopping, bars, restaurants, etc.

[bunt_q]

Because that's what we need - more inebriated bicyclists.

EDIT: The next time I run across a pack of show-bicycle-activists, I'll have to remember to snap some photos. One, to prove I am not insane and imagining things. And two, I am sure it'll annoy the heck out of them being photographed.

Sorry... nothing irks me quite like people trying to commute suicide off the bumper of my vehicle and insisting it's my fault, presumably because I am an evil driver. They remind me of the post-Vietnam "baby killer" crowd. I vote right, I support transit, I am not the enemy! ...breathe Bunt, breathe.

[awholeparade]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Because that's what we need - more inebriated bicyclists.

EDIT: The next time I run across a pack of show-bicycle-activists, I'll have to remember to snap some photos. One, to prove I am not insane and imagining things. And two, I am sure it'll annoy the heck out of them being photographed.

Is this in response to me saying that there should be B-cycle stations in that area of Broadway?

What you're seeing is probably the expansion of the Denver Cruisers ride, which used to be a Wednesday night thing, with one massive group of people. Well, it's become so successful that it is now split up into multiple groups, which go on separate courses and then meet up at the end. Also, there is now a large Sunday ride, as well. What you're describing sounds like Critical Mass rides, which, if you aren't familiar with, do a Google search. In general, i don't agree with what goes on during Critical Mass rides (a few bad riders ruin it for everyone), but the intentions are good, and i'm surprised anyone that understands the importance of weening ourselves off our car dependance doesn't get it.

[awholeparade]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Sorry... nothing irks me quite like people trying to commute suicide off the bumper of my vehicle and insisting it's my fault, presumably because I am an evil driver. They remind me of the post-Vietnam "baby killer" crowd. I vote right, I support transit, I am not the enemy! ...breathe Bunt, breathe.

Lol. Like it or not, this certainly does sound like something "the enemy" would say. Seriously, you may not realize it, but on a fundamental level, you're saying that cars belong on the road more than bikes, which is the point that "cycling activists" have issues with.

[bunt_q]

How does harassing drivers in neighborhoods populated, by and large, by like-minded people, further the goal of weening ourselves off our car dependence? As long as we are car dependent, what does that accomplish? Egg a Congressman, fine. But attacking Regular Joe is highly counterproductive. What's the message? Get rid of your car now? Yeah, not an option, sorry.

(To answer your question, no, I really wasn't responding to you before, but I am now, since you seem to be furthering the classic liberal mistake of attacking the wrong person. Like I said, it's the "baby killer" thing all over again - attack the soldiers coming home, a lot of good that did - we've had two generations of hyper-patriotism to atone for the screw ups of those few bad apples. Well, every one of those Denver Cruisers would be better served sitting at home, smoking a bowl, and writing a letter to the editor. Harassing drivers? I don't get it. Greenpeace is smart enough to smile to Regular Joe on the Mall - even the unfriendly Joes - and save their extremism for loggers and whalers.)