Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

[racc]

Originally Posted by SpikePhanta

^^ Yeah Leftwing Facists? That's somewhat of an oxymoron, not to mention some oldpeople would be absolutely disgusted at comparing NaziGermany and MussoliniItaly with society today.

Or Spain under Franco or Chile under Pinochet.

Pretty typical of the way over the top dramatics surrounding traffic and the automobile and a sure sign that they don't have much of a rational argument.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by geoff's two cents

Don't feed the trolls.

I know eh? This thread was finally becoming constructive again, and now we have to dwell on this one stupid comment...

[s211]

Originally Posted by SpikePhanta

^^ Yeah Leftwing Facists? That's somewhat of an oxymoron, not to mention some oldpeople would be absolutely disgusted at comparing NaziGermany and MussoliniItaly with society today.

Oxymoron? No.

A government doesn't have to be right wing to exhibit facist tendencies. Take Meggs' and Robertson's green-shirted cyclist agenda, for example.

[Canadian Mind]

As far as I can tell the city hasn't cancelled the next elections yet.

Definitely not Fascist.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by s211

A government doesn't have to be right wing to exhibit facist tendencies. Take Meggs' and Robertson's green-shirted cyclist agenda, for example.

Using "facist" (even qualified with "tendencies") as an adjective to describe the council is hyperbole - which makes your position a lot less convincing to me.

[Metro-One]

Yeah, the terms fascist and nazis are thrown around far too much. I am a left wing person but even I found it funny when people compared George Bush to Hitler (and now it is funny again that people on the right compare Obama to Hitler).

But please don't let such silly comments distract you from all the point myself and others have made on this forum.

That being said, I strongly disagree with Megg's position on this topic and how the city is handling it.

[vanlaw]

Civic elections in just over 5 months. Simple solution - get rid of Meggs.

[Metro-One]

Man, I wish I could, sadly I only work downtown and support Vancouver's economy, but as of now I can not afford to live in Vancouver.

[jlousa]

Don't see any politics at play here.

First they move the party zone over to Georgia and now this.

Description: Crews will be working on the Dunsmuir Viaduct for maintenance activities from June 6th to 15th including playoff hockey days. One travel lane will be open at all times.

Out of all the possible times to reduce capacity on the viaduct they've decided that during a time where a large portion of the city is trying to get downtown to enjoy the festivities would be the ideal time.
This strikes me as interesting...

[whatnext]

Unbelievable, simply unbelievable.

I'm surprised Meggsy hasn't trotted out in front of the cameras yet to crow that since Georgia Street was closed yesterday therefore the viaducts are redundant.

[simonfiction]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Don't see any politics at play here.

First they move the party zone over to Georgia and now this.



Out of all the possible times to reduce capacity on the viaduct they've decided that during a time where a large portion of the city is trying to get downtown to enjoy the festivities would be the ideal time.
This strikes me as interesting...

Surely no one who drives right into downtown when the city is this busy, will expect plenty of room for free flowing traffic? It's no different the world over. Downtown celebrations = not a good day to take the car in the city centre. Downtown will be filled with pedestrians and they need to find space for them somewhere in a city with no public square.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Don't see any politics at play here.

First they move the party zone over to Georgia and now this.



Out of all the possible times to reduce capacity on the viaduct they've decided that during a time where a large portion of the city is trying to get downtown to enjoy the festivities would be the ideal time.
This strikes me as interesting...

Is that's what's happening? Traffic is a mess downtown today.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I'm surprised Meggsy hasn't trotted out in front of the cameras yet to crow that since Georgia Street was closed yesterday therefore the viaducts are redundant.

I'm surprised you weren't out there yelling at the fans to get off your road and go home.

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by vanlaw

civic elections in just over 5 months. Simple solution - get rid of meggs.

down with meggs!

[racc]

Amazing what goes on in the land of the traffic drama kings.

http://www.geoffmeggs.ca/2011/07/17/anot...s-beat-plane-in-burbank-long-beach-race/

Another sleepy California weekend: LA Carmageddon a no-show; cyclists beat plane in Burbank – Long Beach race

It was to be the biggest traffic catastrophe since the creation of bike lanes on the Burrard Bridge: a weekend closure of LA’s crucial 405 freeway that would paralyze Los Angeles.

But like so many traffic congestion nightmares, “Carmageddon” didn’t materialize. People walked, took a bus, cycled, drove other routes or just stayed home.

Suddenly, nothing happened. It’s possible, just possible, LA could do better with fewer cars.

Craziest outcome of the day? An airline offering stranded drivers discount flights from Burbank to Long Beach found itself in a head-to-head race with a team of cyclists. A passenger leaving a Hollywood intersection at the same time the Wolfpack Hustle team put their pedals down but just leaving taking off when they arrived at Long Beach.

Of course, the airplane passenger didn’t have to shower.

Don’t be fooled: any change to Vancouver’s Georgia and Dunsmuir Viaducts could be devastating. Or not.

[p78hub]

A lot of it was media hype. LA authorities had been warning people for weeks that they were going to close the 405. Since the closure was scheduled for a weekend, people that didn't have to drive didn't, and those that did found other ways around. If say, 16 miles of the 405 suddenly had to close on a friday afternoon, then maybe it'd be "carmageddon" (lol).

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by racc

Amazing what goes on in the land of the traffic drama kings.

http://www.geoffmeggs.ca/2011/07/17/anot...s-beat-plane-in-burbank-long-beach-race/

Another sleepy California weekend: LA Carmageddon a no-show; cyclists beat plane in Burbank – Long Beach race

Yawn...... standard Geoff Meggs anecdotal info.

I am sure that if the Expo Line were to cease functioning for an extended period of time people would eventually find a way around that as well, but just because people can adapt to such a situation, does not mean it is healthy for a region.

This was a highly publicized and anticipated closure on a weekend, no big surprise to me it did not cause lots of trouble.

Also comparing the freeway saturated LA to Vancouver's viaducts is laughable.

sigh...

[racc]

Huh.

Originally Posted by Metro-One

This was a highly publicized and anticipated closure on a weekend, no big surprise to me it did not cause lots of trouble.

I'm sure there would be plenty of publicity and planning if they decide to do something with the Viaducts.

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Also comparing the freeway saturated LA to Vancouver's viaducts is laughable.

Well yes, but it does exactly the opposite of demonstrating your point. If anything, the LA experience would indicate that if all that traffic on that huge saturated freeway can disappear, then the comparatively small amount on the Viaducts should really be nothing to worry about.

[Metro-One]

Actually no, by "freeway saturated" it means LA has many parallel high volume routes heading in similar directions to absorb the displaced traffic.

Also, we have time and again displayed the unique situation of the ducts (the escarpment, downtown being nearly an island, the future plans to take away volume from Hastings and the other few east / west routes leading downtown (all surface routes that I would hate to see inundated with the displaced viaducts traffic), etc...

And the fact that nearly all of the structures torn down in the past decade were badly damaged by earthquakes, old age, etc... or replaced by under ground routes, parallel routes with in a few kms, or were duplicate high volume routes that should never have been built in the first place.

The viaducts here have no parallel route, are in very good condition, and can be used to create a unique urban environment beneath / around them (instead of more carbon copy Yaletown), and can be fundamental in the role of reducing traffic from such streets as Water Street, Hastings Street, etc.. when trams / bike lanes are implemented.

Again, this entire issue is a complete straw man political distraction issue.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by racc

Huh.

I'm sure there would be plenty of publicity and planning if they decide to do something with the Viaducts.

Well yes, but it does exactly the opposite of demonstrating your point. If anything, the LA experience would indicate that if all that traffic on that huge saturated freeway can disappear, then the comparatively small amount on the Viaducts should really be nothing to worry about.

There's a huge difference between a weekend closure and permanent removal. I thought even Meggs had (just) enough intelligence to understand that. Apparently not.