Ottawa Rapid Transit Network developments

[Ottawan]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

What really gets me is the blatantly anti-transit Sun is the preferred reading choice of OC Transpo drivers.

Is driving a bus really so different from driving a car? After all, they aren't riding the bus, are they? How do most bus drivers get to the bus depots at the start of their shifts?

[Ottawan]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I think that Ken Gray is playing an important role in this process to make sure that we do not end up with an out of control project and that the project ends up as good as it can be. Yes, he is opposed to the tunnel and many don't like that, but if it was not him, it would be somebody else. This is not a perfect project therefore it deserves criticism. If it were not for criticism, we would still be looking at our first subway 12 stories underground. It would be a big mistake just to have everybody on some bandwagon blindly supporting the most expensive infrastructure project in Ottawa history. If criticism creates a better end result, we should be happy. On the other hand, we should make sure that we avoid 'reset buttons' as this sort of thing is disastrous for the city. It makes the possible impossible, whereas these situations can almost always be addressed through well thought out improvements.

I believe that Ottawa will need a tunnel sooner or later but I share many of Ken Gray's concerns about the current project. The mayor's recent speech is encouraging and addresses some of my concerns but ultimately, the bids will determine whether we have an affordable project. This project will not get the crucial green light until the bids are in our hands.

There's a BIG difference between constructive criticism (every city transit planner should be required to read Eric Darwin's analysis of transit plans on Westsideaction) vs. the closed-minded obstructionist criticism that Gray has recently been providing.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Ottawan

Is driving a bus really so different from driving a car? After all, they aren't riding the bus, are they? How do most bus drivers get to the bus depots at the start of their shifts?

Umm..... what?

[Ottawan]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Umm..... what?

Was just attempting to point out that a pro-transit attitude is hardly a prerequisite for being a bus driver.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Umm..... what?

Drivers are no different than everyone else in terms of how they commute to and from the garages. Many live in areas difficult - or impossible in a few cases - to take transit to, and the garages aren't located in areas easily accessible by transit (especially Pinecrest and Merivale).

[eternallyme]

About Bayview, I think it should be kept fairly straight-forward. It is reasonable to plan for the existing O-Train to be extended to Gatineau, hence a direct-to-downtown connection would be impossible (they would never have compatible equipment anyway in that case).

Blair Station should have the LRT directly where the BRT platforms are now, at-grade. Sure there won't be enough storage space for bus transfers in 2031, but that would force the issue on extending the line to Orleans, and it would be quite easily accomodated. Any future reconstruction of the Blair Road interchange could also be built for an easy accomodation of the Cumberland Transitway/LRT ramp necessary (without an inconvenient loop).

Also it mentions themes for stations. I like the themes, but I would add for the unthemed stations:

Tunney's Pasture - Rural roots (reflecting its "pasture name it is worth bringing up its history) - an old design reflecting rural stations on the Prairies in the early 1900s should be done

Lees - Crossroads (being near a river, railway and freeway, showing the transportation world) - the design should note that

Hurdman - Future (some of the highest densities in Ottawa are nearby and with development potential) - a futuristic design should be considered

Train - Railroad past (naturally being at the train station) - the design should be like an old railway station

St. Laurent - Commerce (of course, since it is at a mall) - Nothing really special except for the art of fashion

Cyrville - Industry (closest station to the industrial parks) - the design should reflect the industrial age

Blair - Francophone (area is substantially Francophone) - French Canadian art should be featured

[eemy]

I think that create station themes would probably end up being tacky in the end. I'm a huge fan of what Montreal did with its metro. A lot of it looks dated now, unfortunately, but there are some real gems there.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Ottawan

Was just attempting to point out that a pro-transit attitude is hardly a prerequisite for being a bus driver.

Yeah, but you might naively think that self-interest would kick in at some point.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Ottawan

There's a BIG difference between constructive criticism (every city transit planner should be required to read Eric Darwin's analysis of transit plans on Westsideaction) vs. the closed-minded obstructionist criticism that Gray has recently been providing.

Closed-minded obstructionist criticism would be a step up from Gray's increasing shrillness the last couple of months. He used to be a mere closed-minded obstructionist critic. Now he's just a douchebag.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Tunney's Pasture - Rural roots (reflecting its "pasture name it is worth bringing up its history) - an old design reflecting rural stations on the Prairies in the early 1900s should be done

When was the last time the Tunney's area, any more than any other area inside the Greenbelt, was really a "pasture"?

Lees - Crossroads (being near a river, railway and freeway, showing the transportation world) - the design should note that

I think it should pay hommage to brutalistic late 1960s/early 1970s architectural fads. A part of our heritage.

Hurdman - Future (some of the highest densities in Ottawa are nearby and with development potential) - a futuristic design should be considered

At one point Confederation Heights and the NAC were considered "futuristic". Enough of that.

Train - Railroad past (naturally being at the train station) - the design should be like an old railway station

Maybe one with trains!

St. Laurent - Commerce (of course, since it is at a mall) - Nothing really special except for the art of fashion

It should pay tribute to 14-year-old girls.

[OttawaSteve]

Council unanimously approves new LRT plan

By David Reevely, The Ottawa Citizen July 14, 2011

OTTAWA — A unanimous city council voted for the revised light-rail plan Thursday afternoon, moving ahead with the $2.1-billion plan to run a 12.5-kilometre line between Tunney’s Pasture and Blair Road via a downtown tunnel along Queen Street.

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Counci...es+plan/5101405/story.html#ixzz1SAiNw2i5

[Andrew] Haydon accused politicians and city staff of being “infatuated” with rail.

“Infatuation is what robs man of reason. It is indeed blind folly, rendering policy-makers incapable of rational choice,” he thundered.

Did you ever take that test yourself, Mr. Haydon?

[adam-machiavelli]

Once again Mr. Haydon leaves us wondering whether his name is worthy of being adorned above the council chamber's entrance.

[reidjr]

I did not like on bit what haydon said yesterday i think it was uncalled for.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli

Once again Mr. Haydon leaves us wondering whether his name is worthy of being adorned above the council chamber's entrance.

Yes, I think it's about time that the Andrew S. Haydon Hall be renamed to something more fitting, such as the Colonel John By Hall, and that the Colonel By room, in its turn, be renamed after someone else worthy of recognition, perhaps Captain John LeBreton or the first mayor of Bytown/Ottawa, John Scott (John seems to have been a popular name in early Ottawa history).

[S-Man]

Since downtown roads can't get any wider, and buses can't get any smaller considering they have to house people, I can't see how more and more buses - new, 'modern' buses - are the way of the future.
Haydon's day was in the 70s, and his vision is still rooted in the 70s. Since his tenure the population and sizeof the city has doubled, but apparently he thinks the same transit solutions he proposed in the 70s will still work.

[adam-machiavelli]

Haydon's argument for BRT is not rooted in good planning at all and he knows it. He's just crying because City Council is finally, in my opinion correcting his legacy project.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli

Haydon's argument for BRT is not rooted in good planning at all and he knows it. He's just crying because City Council is finally, in my opinion correcting his legacy project.

BRT is good in some areas, but not others. IMO it is best for suburban corridors that do not go downtown to provide enhanced service at lower cost in bus lanes and dedicated signals. Enhancements on major routes outside the downtown, such as Route 118, would be good for BRT.

[RTWAP]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I agree that putting the buses on the left (counter-flow) has lots of benefits for operating stations; they become central platform stations. However, there would likely still need to be two elevators at each station to account for one being 'out of service'. Currently a patron, when confronted by a dead elevator on their side, can hop on the next bus to the next station where they change sides to return to the original station, but on the opposite side - hoping that that elevator is working. Somewhat inconvenient and time wasting, but do-able. Having a single elevator on a central platform would make the station inaccessible for those who need an elevator.

Another thing to think about is whether Hurdman would function well if the buses were counter-flowed. Just because the buses would no longer need to cross (or at least not as much) doesn’t mean that there would be no bus jams. I was once told that new stations shouldn’t be designed with central platforms lest we recreate the mess at Hurdman Station; I happily replied that we should not create future stations with side platforms lest we recreate the mess of the Mackenzie King Station. That Transitway station planner has not talked to me since, but I think my point was a valid one; it is not so much whether a station has central or side platforms that matters, but a much more holistic combination of the stations design, capacity and utilization of that station. I think that OttawaSteve has a point about needing to re-arrange the stops at Hurdman. Not having the buses cross may not be sufficient to ensure a smooth flowing station at Hurdman.

When I brought up the idea of a contra-flow Transitway segment to a City planner, it was pointed out that Montreal is in the process of removing their contra-flow bus lanes for public safety; it turns out that people crossing the lanes do not look in the correct direction for approaching buses. This would, undoubtedly be the answer to the suggestion that buses should travel in the ‘wrong’ direction along Albert and Slater downtown; people will get hit.

For short Transitway segments, far away from the public, I think it could be a benefit to have the buses travel on the left. Having the entire Transitway contra-flow, even in populated areas might be a hazard.

Why not just reverse the direction of Albert and Slater streets? They're bounded to the north and south by bi-directional streets so there's no issue with having consecutive one-way streets heading the same direction.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by RTWAP

Why not just reverse the direction of Albert and Slater streets? They're bounded to the north and south by bi-directional streets so there's no issue with having consecutive one-way streets heading the same direction.

Things would get pretty interesting west of Bronson and possibly east of Elgin (if the Mckenzie King Bridge were open to general traffic)...

[m0nkyman]

Originally Posted by OttawaSteve

Council unanimously approves new LRT plan

By David Reevely, The Ottawa Citizen July 14, 2011

OTTAWA — A unanimous city council voted for the revised light-rail plan Thursday afternoon, moving ahead with the $2.1-billion plan to run a 12.5-kilometre line between Tunney’s Pasture and Blair Road via a downtown tunnel along Queen Street.

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Counci...es+plan/5101405/story.html#ixzz1SAiNw2i5



Did you ever take that test yourself, Mr. Haydon?

I was against the Transitway being BRT when it was first built. It has been a mistake waiting to be corrected for almost thirty years. Haydon was wrong then, and he's wrong now.

Edmonton did it right the first time, and in fifteen years, it will be seen that their early investment in a tunnel was the right decision, even though it didn't pay immediate dividends. Calgary and Ottawa are having to redo their central transit systems, while Edmonton is able to focus on expanding.