BC Place: Stadium Refurbishment | Completed

[officedweller]

The biggest issue for a "new stadium" was that it would likely have been located out in Surrey (or some other location where land is cheap).

Remember that the real estate vultures were circling BC Place before the decision to replace the roof rather than build a new stadium.

[TwoFace]

Last time I checked concrete can last for a very very long time, indefinitely if you like with proper maintenance.
Building a BIGGER stadium wouldn't make any sense as the current seating configuration is under-used with the exception of a Grey Cup game once every number of years.
The only way a bigger and better stadium would work is if we had the NFL and that ain't happening anytime soon.

[WarrenC12]

I think this new version will attract more events that can sell it out, specifically big name concerts. The acoustics in BC Place were terrible, and should improve with the new roof, including great summer shows with the roof open.

[TMW]

I've been VERY critical with this project since the beginning. For roughly 800m we could have built a state of state of the art facility.

However the farther along this project gets, the more I like it.

First of all, the stadium looks awesome from the exterior, check out the aerial shots from the previous page.

The opening is a good size. It covers the field of play for soccer, and only leaves out the endzones for CFL games. The fact that they have added drainage to the concrete and have the ability to leave the roof open in any weather is a huge bonus that I was not aware of until the other day listening to the Team 1040. Apparently its a team decision, in which case I'd be surprised if to see it closed on CFL and even MLS gamedays.

The interior upgrades are also pretty spectacular, new seats, a large central hung video scoreboard, as well as new lighting and sound will make the experience absolutely incredible.

The concourse and luxury suite upgrades have also been up to par in my opinion, way better than before. The concrete in the concourse isn't a problem for me anymore, it blends in nicely now.

I hated this project for so long. But now I can't really find a negative to it all, count me as a fan of the new BC Place.

[agrant]

Originally Posted by TMW

The opening is a good size. It covers the field of play for soccer, and only leaves out the endzones for CFL games. The fact that they have added drainage to the concrete and have the ability to leave the roof open in any weather is a huge bonus that I was not aware of until the other day listening to the Team 1040. Apparently its a team decision, in which case I'd be surprised if to see it closed on CFL and even MLS gamedays.

I think it'll feel smaller than what you'd get at other stadiums. Think of a giant skylight.

[logan5]

Yeah the stadium looks a lot better, but there's still a lot of bland grey and white. I wonder if it would have been totally crazy to paint the masts a different colour besides white.

[ckkelley]

Originally Posted by logan5

Yeah the stadium looks a lot better, but there's still a lot of bland grey and white. I wonder if it would have been totally crazy to paint the masts a different colour besides white.

The whiteness likely comes into play at night when the LED lighting will constantly change the roof's appearance.

[dtrain]

Will be played at Commerzbank Arena, same roof style as new BC Place. Will be interesting to see how it looks on TV.

[VancouverPM]

Originally Posted by TwoFace

Last time I checked concrete can last for a very very long time, indefinitely if you like with proper maintenance.
Building a BIGGER stadium wouldn't make any sense as the current seating configuration is under-used with the exception of a Grey Cup game once every number of years.
The only way a bigger and better stadium would work is if we had the NFL and that ain't happening anytime soon.

yup, concrete can last for a very long time, I wouldn't be as bold to say indefinitely as it is a man made product, but properly maintained you have years...

What I've noticed in this thread is, well it doesn't make sense to implode a stadium thats perfectly good...and nor does it make sense to spend half a billion dollars for the combination of interior and roof upgrades, when a brand new stadium, without a potentially troublesome roof could have been built for an price equal, or slightly higher, that would be built to today's standards, with today's building materials, that would last far longer than BC Place and its half a billion dollar renovation will.

[peterprinciple]

The new banner attached to the "centre node" displays the name HIGHTEX.
The company is installing the new membrane around the upper stadium perimeter and the roof.

Here's the link:

http://www.hightexworld.com/index.php

Go to Projects then click in progress.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by VancouverPM

yup, concrete can last for a very long time, I wouldn't be as bold to say indefinitely as it is a man made product, but properly maintained you have years...

What I've noticed in this thread is, well it doesn't make sense to implode a stadium thats perfectly good...and nor does it make sense to spend half a billion dollars for the combination of interior and roof upgrades, when a brand new stadium, without a potentially troublesome roof could have been built for an price equal, or slightly higher, that would be built to today's standards, with today's building materials, that would last far longer than BC Place and its half a billion dollar renovation will.

I think it would end up being close to $1B after all was said and done. And it would be either out in Surrey somewhere, or on the existing site, but we'd be without a usable stadium for 4+ years.

I'm happy with the decision that was made.

[officedweller]

Thanks for the Hightex link.

TRhe cover for the retractable section is being hoisted up right now.

[VancouverPM]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I think it would end up being close to $1B after all was said and done. And it would be either out in Surrey somewhere, or on the existing site, but we'd be without a usable stadium for 4+ years.

I'm happy with the decision that was made.

a 1 Billion dollar projection is pure madness...even PAVCO wouldn't have been able to screw something up that bad...

Which is why if people read my earlier posts...the Stadium could have been built in DIRECT conjunction with a private developer...something along the lines of phasing it, starting the stadium in the parking lot, to streamline the process while the old stadium was demolished, utilizing the north east part of the side for residential/commercial development. So many options for the price tag we are paying for the roof and interior renovations...this really was a missed opportunity. There is no reason to think the stadium would be in Surrey, its possible through some cohesive and planning to have completed something on the current site without a 4 year time frame, 2 to 2.5 at best. Empire Field has served us well for the Whitecaps and the Lions for that time frame.

I find the whole reasons against a new stadium very close minded when the options were there, could have been there, but were never presented to the public...like I said a missed opportunity for Vancouver...

[ckkelley]

Originally Posted by VancouverPM

a 1 Billion dollar projection is pure madness...even PAVCO wouldn't have been able to screw something up that bad...

Which is why if people read my earlier posts...the Stadium could have been built in DIRECT conjunction with a private developer...something along the lines of phasing it, starting the stadium in the parking lot, to streamline the process while the old stadium was demolished, utilizing the north east part of the side for residential/commercial development. So many options for the price tag we are paying for the roof and interior renovations...this really was a missed opportunity. There is no reason to think the stadium would be in Surrey, its possible through some cohesive and planning to have completed something on the current site without a 4 year time frame, 2 to 2.5 at best. Empire Field has served us well for the Whitecaps and the Lions for that time frame.

I find the whole reasons against a new stadium very close minded when the options were there, could have been there, but were never presented to the public...like I said a missed opportunity for Vancouver...

Well obviously most of us disagree.

Why flog this dead horse? This decision has been made and the train has left the station I'm afraid. Why not explain how you think this project "will be atrocious" when it's finished? That's a comment that I found most bewildering.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by VancouverPM

a 1 Billion dollar projection is pure madness...even PAVCO wouldn't have been able to screw something up that bad...

Which is why if people read my earlier posts...the Stadium could have been built in DIRECT conjunction with a private developer...something along the lines of phasing it, starting the stadium in the parking lot, to streamline the process while the old stadium was demolished, utilizing the north east part of the side for residential/commercial development. So many options for the price tag we are paying for the roof and interior renovations...this really was a missed opportunity. There is no reason to think the stadium would be in Surrey, its possible through some cohesive and planning to have completed something on the current site without a 4 year time frame, 2 to 2.5 at best. Empire Field has served us well for the Whitecaps and the Lions for that time frame.

I find the whole reasons against a new stadium very close minded when the options were there, could have been there, but were never presented to the public...like I said a missed opportunity for Vancouver...

I think you're severely underestimating the cost to build a brand new stadium of similar size to BC Place. Materials and labour are quite a bit more than you imagine.

$1-billion is quite a realistic figure, with a retractable roof and all. Even the expanded convention centre, one of the largest -- if not the largest -- buildings in the province, is close to $900-million. A new stadium would be of similar scope.

I wouldn't be so certain about a private contractor coming in, largely because of the restrictions placed within the City and by residents. Recall what happened to the casino-hotel proposal that was rejected right off the bat by city council, and the developers weren't even involved in the stadium project. If you got them involved with the stadium, they would likely want much...much...much more for their development, and that's something the city just doesn't have the balls for.

[Zassk]

Empire Field did not serve us "well". It was adequate as a stop-gap, nothing more. The location is atrocious and the services were terrible. People liked it because of the nostalgia factor, not because of its inherent qualities. The novelty has worn off already.

Stadiums cost a lot to build these days - especially in locations such as a polluted tidal flat. There is no evidence that BC Place could have been replaced for less than $1 billion. Regardless, building a new stadium every 28 years is incredibly wasteful.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Stadiums cost a lot to build these days - especially in locations such as a polluted tidal flat. There is no evidence that BC Place could have been replaced for less than $1 billion. Regardless, building a new stadium every 28 years is incredibly wasteful.

There is some evidence.

BC Place was built for 126 million dollars in the early eighties. Adjusted for inflation, that works out to 300 million. I believe the cost of labour has risen since that time at about the same rate as overall inflation, but I'm not sure about materials.

[logan5]

duplicate...

[VancouverPM]

Originally Posted by mr.x

I think you're severely underestimating the cost to build a brand new stadium of similar size to BC Place. Materials and labour are quite a bit more than you imagine.

$1-billion is quite a realistic figure, with a retractable roof and all. Even the expanded convention centre, one of the largest -- if not the largest -- buildings in the province, is close to $900-million. A new stadium would be of similar scope.

I wouldn't be so certain about a private contractor coming in, largely because of the restrictions placed within the City and by residents. Recall what happened to the casino-hotel proposal that was rejected right off the bat by city council, and the developers weren't even involved in the stadium project. If you got them involved with the stadium, they would likely want much...much...much more for their development, and that's something the city just doesn't have the balls for.

I'm pretty sure I'm not severely under-estimating the costs of labour and materials, I make a living at estimating the costs of labour and materials, and then when I'm awarded the projects I make a living at ensuring the construction schedules, timelines and budgets are held as close to reality as I can. What the public needs to understand is the labour costs are significantly less than during the construction of the Convention Centre, you can't compare construction costs between then and now as Labour is often the larger portion of the actual project, Concrete costs are down significantly as well. If you want a comparison in pricing...a High Rise in similar design that was built in the boom was down for structural concrete cost per sq ft contact area of $18...today that same building would be lucky, I stress the word lucky if it went for another about $9 per sq ft contact area...thats at least half the price as an example.

The convention centre had such a huge price tag partially to do with the aquatic piles, and fill that had to be factorered in to it, that upped the costs from materials, labour, design, and engineering. A building such as the convention centre built on solid land, would have been considerably less than the final costs of the Convention Centre. Again comparing a convention centre and its requirements to a sports stadium again are not exactly equal comparisons either. They are two incredibly different buildings and differents rates of production would apply to one and another, hence affecting labour. Just because it is a huge building does not mean its the same cost. For a point of random comparison the formwork contract on the Shangri La, tallest building as we all know in Vancouver was approx. 22 million...Vancouver's new UV Water Treatment plant had a formwork package of approx. 2 million...

The residents were not against a development attached to BC Place, they were against the Casino, and rightly so...that is the last thing downtown Vancouver needs, but Hotels, Condos, and Commerical, can't go wrong there, thats what drives Vancouver in many ways. I seem to recall the hotel/residential portions being approved, or approved on principal without the casino...the whole reason Van City shut that down was the damn greed associated with the Casino... Yes a developer would have been more than happy to become involved, I didn't come up with these ideas all on my own one day. If this project had been properly planned, instead of the hurry up wait and rush that started with the damage to the roof, we could have turned this into a world class sporting facility instead of a gussied up 25 year old concrete monoloth.

As for attrocious, the building was attrocious before, it is a sign of 1980's architecture, it is a big ugly lump of concrete, now instead of a big ugly lump of concrete with a bubble on the roof, its a big ugly lump of concrete with structural steel poking out every which way, a modern roof on a archacic body...its kind of like a 60 year old woman trying to act like a 20 year old bar star...the visual comparison is not something pleasing on the eyes, at least to most

[VancouverPM]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Empire Field did not serve us "well". It was adequate as a stop-gap, nothing more. The location is atrocious and the services were terrible. People liked it because of the nostalgia factor, not because of its inherent qualities. The novelty has worn off already.

Stadiums cost a lot to build these days - especially in locations such as a polluted tidal flat. There is no evidence that BC Place could have been replaced for less than $1 billion. Regardless, building a new stadium every 28 years is incredibly wasteful.

And I'd say Empire field served well, they've played their games for 2 years there, which is a little less than what I would estimate it would take for a competent contractor/developer to come in, demolish the old building, build a new one and turn the keys over...on top of that...it wouldn't have been all public money, work it as a P3 if you don't want to get rid of complete control of the land...

again, building a new stadium with MORE ameneties and features is wastful but HALF a BILLION on a retrofit isn't?...

1 billion is a fear mongering number, read my last post...labour is way down materials is way down...