Regina | Capital Pointe | 29F | 11F | 91M | ?M | Cancelled

[Spongebob]

Originally Posted by TechnicalRecession

OK, well I guess we'll see if anything happens in the next 5 days, again, I won't hold my breath.

On the more general topic of housing in this city, I am hearing mixed signals on how strong it really is. On the news the other day there was a story that the housing market here is still hot, with a shortage of listings and prices going ever higher, but the report interviewed real estate agents and they or course are going to pump it up. On the other hand, I also know a number of people who've had trouble selling and have in fact had to lower their prices. Plus when I see all these downtown condos really struggle to get off the ground I wonder what the real deal is with the housing market. Anyone have a take on this??

People don't want to live in downtown Regina. They want to live in the burbs and surrounding communities. Plain and simple.

[wacko]

In the United States, just before the housing market collapsed, house prices went higher, yet fewer houses sold. At that point, only people with actual money were buying houses, and they typically bought higher-end properties, so average prices went up.

I'm hoping housing prices in Regina are similarly on their way down, because I'd love to buy a place at a price that actually bears some relation to wages. Until then, I'm saving my money. I can afford to wait.

And by the way, I'd consider living downtown. The main drawback is lack of a nearby grocery store. I guess there's always the Safeway on 13th though.

[TechnicalRecession]

Originally Posted by wacko

In the United States, just before the housing market collapsed, house prices went higher, yet fewer houses sold. At that point, only people with actual money were buying houses, and they typically bought higher-end properties, so average prices went up.

I'm hoping housing prices in Regina are similarly on their way down, because I'd love to buy a place at a price that actually bears some relation to wages. Until then, I'm saving my money. I can afford to wait.

And by the way, I'd consider living downtown. The main drawback is lack of a nearby grocery store. I guess there's always the Safeway on 13th though.

You know I hear that a lot about no downtown grocery store, and I've never fully understood it. There are actually two grocery stores very close to downtown, the 13th ave Safeway and the Extra foods on broadway, plus 2Shoppers and in the summer the farmers market. More than enough options close by to get food, not to mention probably the largest selection of restaraunts in the city.

I live in a residential area and I am farther away from a grocery store than I would be if I lived in virtually any spot downtown, and I am sure I am not the only one who could say that.

Is it because people who live downtown are less likely to have cars, which I would doubt. Or is it because there are no big box malls close and the complaint is more about not being close to a bunch of larger shopping options?? Consider me confused!!

[osmo]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

Don't bet on the prices going down in Regina any time soon. Just because they are uber inflated in places like Toronto and Vancouver, doesn't mean a crash in those cities will hurt us here with the GTH ramping up and two potash mines being developed in close proximity.

This means nothing to real estate. Major Cities all across Canada are experiencing a rush of air leaving their respected bubbles. If anything Regina is sadly in worse shape because our economy is still not yet fully matured and dynamic like let's say a Toronto. My friends pump me up on this GTH and Potash — all the time and I just tell them unless you are personally cashing in from it, it dosn't matter. The laws of economics don't lie, listings are sitting, people won't budge on prices so they won't loose their shirts and legit buyers are sitting back waiting for the pending dip.

I've been studying the CDN RE market for a while now, there is no diffrence between us and tha States pre-crash. NONE. We have higher debt levels, and 75-78% of Canadians are exposed to mortgages and if prices dip (coupled with rising rates) many may have the majority of their money wiped out. The fact you now have RE industry folk starting to crack on news they have known for almost 2 years now is the real reason one should stop putting hope in Potash mines which are only lining the pockets of investors from Alberta, Chicago and abroad. Resource towns always get the short end of the stick in the situations.

[Rodo Regina Lover]

I have also always been confused about the lack of a grocery store downtown deterring people from living there! Do people say ' I'm not going to buy a house in Wascana View because there isn't a grocery store in the neighbourhood' Like I have never understood the logic behind this line of thinking.

[wacko]

I'll retract the grocery store thing. I should have thought it through more. The Farmers' Market is a good point.

I actually do live within decent walking distance of a grocery store, but more often than not, I drive there. I should be walking more.

Originally Posted by djforsberg

Don't bet on the prices going down in Regina any time soon. Just because they are uber inflated in places like Toronto and Vancouver, doesn't mean a crash in those cities will hurt us here with the GTH ramping up and two potash mines being developed in close proximity.

House prices in Regina have more than doubled in the past ten years; wages haven't done the same. Obviously that pattern can't continue indefinitely, or else soon no one will be able to buy a house.

What I think will happen is that house prices will stagnate or decline slightly, while wages catch up. I would venture to guess we'll be back in balance in about five years or so. Bonus points if it happens sooner.

[CCF]

Originally Posted by Spongebob

People don't want to live in downtown Regina. They want to live in the burbs and surrounding communities. Plain and simple.

That's a very simplistic comment and not reflective or accurate in any way. Most people in Regina don't live in "the burbs" and this alone make this statement incorrect.

I myself will never live in an area where I can't walk. I know many who feel the same!

[ceedub1170]

Originally Posted by wacko

I'll retract the grocery store thing. I should have thought it through more. The Farmers' Market is a good point.

I actually do live within decent walking distance of a grocery store, but more often than not, I drive there. I should be walking more.



House prices in Regina have more than doubled in the past ten years; wages haven't done the same. Obviously that pattern can't continue indefinitely, or else soon no one will be able to buy a house.

What I think will happen is that house prices will stagnate or decline slightly, while wages catch up. I would venture to guess we'll be back in balance in about five years or so. Bonus points if it happens sooner.

I don't necessarily think that high prices are a bad thing for a city. It used to be, anyone with a decent job could buy a house anywhere they wanted. Essentially, places like North Central would be avoided, leaving only low income families in that area.

With the increase in prices, even people with good paying jobs now have to consider houses in and around North Central. This helps in transitioning neighbourhoods.

[UPP]

Originally Posted by CCF

That's a very simplistic comment and not reflective or accurate in any way. Most people in Regina don't live in "the burbs" and this alone make this statement incorrect.

I myself will never live in an area where I can't walk. I know many who feel the same!

I think by 'burbs' he probably meant neighbourhoods like Harbour Landing or Windsor Park. In both those cases, they are building condos at a very rapid pace. I think our condo market is not like those in Vancouver, Toronto or Montreal. Here, one is more likely to cater to boomers who are now empty nesters, wishing to downsize a bit but still enjoy suburban living that a townhouse in Harbour Landing or Windsor Park gives you. Downtown condo living is more the unattached professional type more typical of downtown Vancouver. We don't have that same market here, yet.

[Spongebob]

Originally Posted by CCF

That's a very simplistic comment and not reflective or accurate in any way. Most people in Regina don't live in "the burbs" and this alone make this statement incorrect.

I myself will never live in an area where I can't walk. I know many who feel the same!

I think you misunderstand me. UPP is correct when he says I mean suburbs like Harbour Landing or Windsor Park. The vast majority of people live in these areas of Regina. People don't want to live downtown as it stand right now. Perhaps with future development this will change.

[CCF]

Even then that's silly. Do you know how many people live in inner-city neighbourhoods like Heritage, Lakeview, Crescents or Cathedral?

[Dan0myte]

Originally Posted by TechnicalRecession

I live in a residential area and I am farther away from a grocery store than I would be if I lived in virtually any spot downtown, and I am sure I am not the only one who could say that.

This is true!

When I used to live in Whitmore Park, the closest grocery store was Southland Safeway. There was a possibility of walking there, but it would be a good 20 minute hike and would require crossing Albert St. at a very busy intersection. Definitely not ideal. Now that I'm in Cathedral, I have the 13th ave Safeway nearby which is literally a 5 minute walk from my house. And the walk is a very nice one down quiet tree-lined streets, no major highway crossings required. We actually walk there quite often. It has also reduced our need for vehicles down to one (we used to need two vehicles when living in the south end) saving us lots of money.

The only caveat to this is that there used to be a very similar sized Safeway to the 13th ave one right in Whitmore Park at the WP Shopping Center! It was easily walkable distance and very convenient. My Grandma & I used to walk there all the time when I was a little guy. Then the Southland Safeway opened and the WP Safeway went under. Too bad...

[blacktrojan3921]

This is interesting from Fortress; didn't knew that the initial value of Capital Pointe was $12 million dollars, and after 36 months it jumped to $82 million.

http://www.fortressrealcapital.ca/projects/capital-pointe.php

[brithgob]

So from that link, it appears they're raising money for...

construction of new sales centre, marketing campaign, buyout of current 2nd mortgage, equity participation, initial demolition costs and interest reserve (see Offering Memorandum for more details).

Also:

The project has obtained all necessary approvals, zonings and permits and as also secured over $20M of pre-sales. Demolition is scheduled to commence in Fall 2011.

[brithgob]

Originally Posted by blacktrojan3921

This is interesting from Fortress; didn't knew that the initial value of Capital Pointe was $12 million dollars, and after 36 months it jumped to $82 million.

http://www.fortressrealcapital.ca/projects/capital-pointe.php

That's a future projection, to the value when built.

[Spongebob]

Originally Posted by CCF

Even then that's silly. Do you know how many people live in inner-city neighbourhoods like Heritage, Lakeview, Crescents or Cathedral?

I'm talking strictly about downtown. If people were clamoring to live downtown then capital point, gardens on rose and other condo developments would be standing tall by now. I don't think this is an over simplification. I think it's just supply and demand.

[blacktrojan3921]

Originally Posted by Spongebob

I'm talking strictly about downtown. If people were clamoring to live downtown then capital point, gardens on rose and other condo developments would be standing tall by now. I don't think this is an over simplification. I think it's just supply and demand.

Plus there's the fact in which condos can be bought as loans/financial/mortgage assets to make money on the projects value, and never intend to live in them. Essentially what is going on in Dubai.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Spongebob

I'm talking strictly about downtown. If people were clamoring to live downtown then capital point, gardens on rose and other condo developments would be standing tall by now. I don't think this is an over simplification. I think it's just supply and demand.

If they didn't price themselves only for high salaried individuals with at least $50,000 sitting in savings, and aimed more for a medium income I think you would find more younger people clamouring for a place downtown. As a "young professional" I make a good salary for someone my age, but I was way below what would be needed to buy a place in Capital Pointe.

With their prices, you need either a rich family or someone well into their 30s to have the earning power required. And people that age generally have families and don't want to live downtown with children. None of the proposed developments are in the mid-range. The people who want to live downtown generally are the younger people, but they can't afford any of these projects.

So yes, it is a supply and demand issue. There is both supply and demand present, the problem is that the demand is for something that isn't being supplied.

[cutterp]

Here is a great song about Good Time Charlie's being torn down. From CBC Radio 2's "Great Canadian Song Quest"

http://youtu.be/kNTcLNxci48

[TechnicalRecession]

Originally Posted by Nathan

If they didn't price themselves only for high salaried individuals with at least $50,000 sitting in savings, and aimed more for a medium income I think you would find more younger people clamouring for a place downtown. As a "young professional" I make a good salary for someone my age, but I was way below what would be needed to buy a place in Capital Pointe.

With their prices, you need either a rich family or someone well into their 30s to have the earning power required. And people that age generally have families and don't want to live downtown with children. None of the proposed developments are in the mid-range. The people who want to live downtown generally are the younger people, but they can't afford any of these projects.

So yes, it is a supply and demand issue. There is both supply and demand present, the problem is that the demand is for something that isn't being supplied.

I think you both make good points. I agree that this type of living is going to appeal to younger people with lower incomes, and or empty nesters to a lesser degree. But I also beleive that a lot of people in this city, including younger people want to live in the newer suburb type communities and in more traditional style homes, which goes to the point of lack of demand for downtown condos. The reason for that is that they can, in larger centers living in skyrise condos is the only affordable option, buying a house in Toronto is either ridiculously expensive or requires large commute times to get to work. Regina has neither of these limitations which makes not only one downtown skyrise a tough sell but when demand is split between three options even tougher, particularly given the high price points of these options.