LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by RAlossi

Of course, I'd rather see the whole damn thing demolished and rebuilt, especially at ground level, but it's something.

As with illithid, I too originally thought you were referring to another location. He first assumed you meant 8th & Grand, & then, like me, assumed you instead were describing 8th & Fig. but I couldn't figure out what office bldg you were talking about around there, cuz there is no office bldg on the big deadzone north of 8th St between Fig & Flower. Then I noticed you were listing 8th PL, not 8th St.

laughing at myself ---->

so although the site you actually are describing is important in its own right, it's kind of a letdown cuz it's less prominent than the large parking lot across from the mall where the new Target is being constructed.



^ that's a perfect example of the seemingly endless number of gaps that have long brought down the hood. It's the kind of property that a person tends to forget all about or will overlook, but suddenly notices only when walking or driving around the immediate area.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by ChrisLA

It sounds as if I don't like Coffeebar but I really do, but they certainly need to make a few minor changes in order to survive. There is a lot of competition all up and down Spring Street.

I've long been bothered by the many vacant locations throughout dt & the ability of small businesses----but NICE small businesses----to survive. When I mean nice businesses, I'm referring to owners who take pride in the appearance of their store. I don't care who they're catering to, whether ppl on low budgets or with lots of $$ to spend. If a shopkeeper can't manage to present a decent looking location, then unlike businesses similar to the coffeebar, I confess to not caring if they go under.

I recommend ppl go to maps.google.com, go to the LA part of the map, & then use the street view option to see parts of DT. Use street view to look at all the bldgs up & down broadway. the images appear to have been shot as recently as 3 months ago.

My reaction?:

The reason? there still are tons of very dingy looking small stores throughout broadway, & the vacancy rate doesn't appear to be as high as described in articles over the recent past. IOW, the one part of DT where I wouldn't mind seeing a high number of empty spaces still appears to have enough ppl willing to rent space to keep most stalls occupied.

I wouldn't mind it if such businesses had the ability to setup & operate a nice store, but many of them are owned by ppl who don't seem to have the $$ do to that, or, worse of all, couldn't care less. Many of the stores on broadway look no better than what's found at swap meets held at drive in theaters or on big parking lots. worse of all, unlike the ppl showing junk at swap meets, the shop keepers on broadway are there on a permanent basis.

What does that say about many of the customers of those stores? that they're so desperate for bargains & cheap products, they don't mind the dirty, depressing condition of the stores where the stuff is being displayed? That they'll happily continue to wander up and down broadway no matter what, now & for the next 1000 yrs?

It's ironic that shoppers started heading for the burbs over 40 yrs ago cuz dt was seen as rundown & dirty, while other types of shoppers favor dt----or at least a major street in it----in spite of it being rundown & dirty.

[202_Cyclist]

This is pretty interesting. A "“self-confessed urban planning geek" used photoshop to show what some of LA's streets would look like if we're concern about other priorities than only level of service on roads, with how many vehicles an intersection can accommodate per hour. The narrow roads create a far more inviting pedestrian and urban environment.

http://www.magicalurbanism.com/archives/4233

[Muji]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

This is pretty interesting. A "“self-confessed urban planning geek" used photoshop to show what some of LA's streets would look like if we're concern about other priorities than only level of service on roads, with how many vehicles an intersection can accommodate per hour. The narrow roads create a far more inviting pedestrian and urban environment.

http://www.magicalurbanism.com/archives/4233

Those pictures are extremely cool. As a bit of a side effect, they really make me miss living in Philadelphia.

Unfortunately, we can't actually narrow LA's existing streets like that. But I do think that huge improvements can be made by widening a lot of our sidewalks, which are more often than not dangerously narrow and uncomfortable (try walking around busy streets in KTown or Westlake). Another relatively simple improvement would be the addition of street trees, which improve pedestrian comfort by providing shade and calming traffic. Incidentally, they also make streets look narrower.

[Kingofthehill]

Originally Posted by citywatch

I recommend ppl go to maps.google.com, go to the LA part of the map, & then use the street view option to see parts of DT. Use street view to look at all the bldgs up & down broadway. the images appear to have been shot as recently as 3 months ago.

My reaction?:

The reason? there still are tons of very dingy looking small stores throughout broadway, & the vacancy rate doesn't appear to be as high as described in articles over the recent past. IOW, the one part of DT where I wouldn't mind seeing a high number of empty spaces still appears to have enough ppl willing to rent space to keep most stalls occupied.

dude, what is your problem? i hate to sound rude, but how many times are you going to bring this up? those of us in dtla on a regular basis are well aware of the current situation. broadway needs help - we get it, and can do without you constantly imploring us to check out street view. your street view/power line/unsightly boulevards obsession really is getting old, man.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

This is pretty interesting. A "“self-confessed urban planning geek" used photoshop to show what some of LA's streets would look like if we're concern about other priorities than only level of service on roads, with how many vehicles an intersection can accommodate per hour. The narrow roads create a far more inviting pedestrian and urban environment.

http://www.magicalurbanism.com/archives/4233

Interesting exercise, but he basically took some major transit corridors and turned them into narrow alleys. Two of the streets (Van Nuys Blvd., Huntington Drive) were very wide from the beginning, because the Pacific Electric streetcar ran down their center medians (as is the case with Brand Blvd. in downtown Glendale).

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for pleasant environments that cater to the pedestrian, but narrowing all streets wouldn't be the answer. Would narrowing the Champs-Élysées in Paris make that a better urban street? I somehow don't think so.

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by BrighamYen

You mean that ugly ass white office building surrounded by tall uninviting black fencing???

Yeah..I was there yesterday and saw that something was going on. There was a dumpster out back with one of those chutes for dumping garbage. There was also a few construction signs around. Wonder what's going on?

It should be said that Spring Street is awesome. Even on a uneventful Saturday, people were out walking their dogs and soaking the awesome weather in. It's pretty cool to see Spring so alive. Other streets need to take note.

[202_Cyclist]

The latest issue of Access magazine was recently published by the University of California Transportation Center (UCTC). There is an interesting article by Donald Shoup, "Free Parking or Free Markets," that looks at the externalities of curbside parking and appropriately pricing parking to ensure a turnover of spaces. Professor Shoup also includes a discussion about how removing the parking minimums in downtown LA as part of the Adaptive Reuse Ordinance.

"In 1999, Los Angeles adopted its Adaptive Reuse Ordinance (ARO) that allows the conversion of economically distressed or historically significant office buildings into new residential units—with no new parking spaces. Before 1999, the city required at least two parking spaces per condominium unit in downtown Los Angeles. Michael Manville studied the results of the ARO and found that many good things can happen when a city removes its parking requirements.


Image courtesy of the University of California.

Developers used the ARO to convert historic office buildings into at least 7,300 new housing units between 1999 and 2008. All the office buildings had been vacant for at least five years, and many had been vacant much longer. By contrast, only 4,300 housing units were added in downtown between 1970 and 2000...."

http://www.uctc.net/access/38/access38_free_parking_markets.shtml

[Illithid Dude]

http://la.curbed.com/archives/2011/07/do...d_tower_site_for_sale_for_17_million.php

That Libskind tower near Staples Center? Not going to happen. The lot is for sale at around 17 million.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Kingofthehill

those of us in dtla on a regular basis are well aware of the current situation. broadway needs help - we get it, and can do without you constantly imploring us to check out street view. your street view/power line/unsightly boulevards obsession really is getting old, man.

You're in dtla on a regular basis? I thought you had moved to south america.

As for "obsession", you can say that about any & every comment posted to this forum: LA is too car centric, LA needs more transit, LA needs more density, LA needs taller bldgs, LA needs devlpt that caters to pedestrians, LA needs better sidewalks, LA needs bikeways, LA needs fewer fwys, LA needs fewer parking lots, & so on, & so forth.

And you say you get it. But haven't you mentioned that you like the gritty side of LA? If so, that's fine & all. But I've rarely, or actually never, heard ppl say "I love Rome cuz of its grit!" "I love Hong Kong cuz of its grit!" "I love Paris cuz of its grit!" "I love San Francisco cuz of its grit!" "I love Boston cuz of its grit!" "I love Seattle cuz of its grit!" "I love London cuz of its grit!" "I love Santa Monica cuz of its grit!" "I love Tokyo cuz of its grit!" "I love NYC cuz of its grit!"

Well, I have seen a few ppl say that about New York, but far more ppl seem impressed by that town cuz of its nicely moneyed streets, places & activities.

BTW, google street view really did come in handy a few days ago. There's never been a wide variety of photos taken by SSPers of broadway through the yrs, other than a few snippets here & there. So unless a person actually is there, it's hard to know what the street really is like.

I wish I had used google before I drove down broadway several months ago. For some reason I thought more of it had become either improved or at least vacant. IOW, I assumed there would be more signs of hope & a better future. So I wasn't prepared to be as turned off by it as I should have been.

BTW, that was when my daughter said something like "why would anyone shop at these stores?!" Also, just FYI, she addresses me as "mom"----although I've seen a person on TV who judges contestants on a well known singing competition show call everyone "dude".

These are pics of broadway starting from a bit south of 3rd St. I believe this would represent the first time in this forum that the street has been shown block by block. And I expressly went back to google street view to capture screen shots of all these images so as to better understand what potential it has or hasn't.


maps.google.com


maps.google.com

this bldg on the east side of the street is no big deal, & it's a dime a dozen in the burbs. but stores like the ones shown in the 1st photo above are so shabby, at least the businesses across the street are somewhat clean & presentable....


maps.google.com

the "DTLA Bikes" store is a new business on broadway & it represents a greater, better future for the street. However, its signage isn't too great & the bldg its in looks overly mediocre....


maps.google.com

The owner of the "american mart" can't even do a better paint job? Is the presentation this sloppy cuz the ppl running the store & the owner of the bldg assumes no one cares or no one will notice?....


maps.google.com

I skipped over showing the 4 corners of 5th & Broadway, cuz they do finally show signs of improvement & hope for a better future. But they're still isolated to their north & south by bldgs & stores like these...


maps.google.com

I swung the google cam to the east to show just how pathetic are some of the stores & bldgs on this part of broadway. There's no excuse for shopkeepers & bldg owners to allow things to be this trashy. Again, they must assume no one gives a damn or no one will notice...


maps.google.com

All this swapmeet retailing makes it easy to miss the little jewel in the rough, the art deco bldg with the gold trim---the 2nd taller bldg from the left, 3rd taller bldg from the right----that is being renovated. But it's easily lost amidst all the rattiness. What stands out to me is how many of these stalls remain occupied by shops, one replaced by another one on a continuous basis. So the vacancy rate actually seems rather low on this part of broadway. That means a succession of businesses in which one owner doesn't bother to (or can't afford to) completely erase the old signage of previous stores....


maps.google.com


maps.google.com

This is another part of broadway where I'd be more optimistic about the street's future if storefronts were totally vacant. It will be tougher to turn around the hood if owners of bldgs find it cheap & easy to rent out space. That's certainly true if the swapmeet stores, even though they look like pits, still manage to lure in enough shoppers, who spend enough money, to cover the monthly expenses of the shops & landlords....


maps.google.com

Clifton's is to the left & google street view still shows it with only a small part of its fugly 1960s facade dismantled. The bldg to the right used to be one of the big dept stores of LA. I believe it once was even described as the largest one on the west coast, sort of a smaller version of macy's in NYC. Such multilevel dept stores are still alive & well in cities like NY, Chicago & SF, or Tokyo & London. But they died here over 30 to 40 yrs ago....


maps.google.com

This is looking south from 7th & broadway...


maps.google.com

In most other parts of dt, it's sad to see vacant bldgs. But on broadway, it's almost a relief to see a large part of the bldg to the right without any businesses.


maps.google.com

After looking at google street view again, maybe I was being overly discouraged a few days ago in assuming large parts of broadway weren't vacant. again, it's a relief to see empty storefronts instead of rundown swapmeets....


maps.google.com

Another sign of hope. the bldg to the left is an old office bldg converted to lofts----the chapman lofts----& the facade of the tower theater was cleaned up a year or more ago. But the bldgs across the street look like they're owned by slumlords who somehow manage to keep luring in desperately hardup shopkeepers. I sometimes wonder if a few of these stores actually are used for money laundering by mobsters.....


maps.google.com

After talking a second look at broadway with google street view, I now realize the southern section of broadway, where opheum lofts, broadway bar & the historic eastern columbia bldg are located, actually is sort of where dark clouds are starting to lift. The presence of dingy small stores isn't as great as it is farther north, so I think this is where future promise lies.


maps.google.com


maps.google.com


maps.google.com

Broadway from 9th st southward isn't included, but the blackstone bldg has been recently converted to lofts, & it's across the street from the eastern columbia lofts, on the NW corner of 9th & Broadway. this section of broadway needs work mainly cuz of too many parking lots. But it's easier dealing with that----& there's greater potential in the immediate future----instead of bldgs owned by slumlords who cling to them for dear life & are rented out to small businesses who end up like a form of NIMBYites.

So thanks, koth. Due to your "rude" post, I was inspired to take a second look at broadway, grab the images from google street view, insert them here, & try to analyze, block by block, what DT's once great retail street is all about now & what it may be like in the future.

[StethJeff]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

http://la.curbed.com/archives/2011/07/do...d_tower_site_for_sale_for_17_million.php

That Libskind tower near Staples Center? Not going to happen. The lot is for sale at around 17 million.

you mean the tower that no one liked? tragedy.

[colemonkee]

^ That lot is being sold with development entitlements, so while it's hard to believe we'll see that exact proposal built, it's likely that we'll see something built there someday, especially if Farmer's Field moves forward.

[DistrictDirt]

Originally Posted by citywatch

These are pics of broadway starting from a bit south of 3rd St. I believe this would represent the first time in this forum that the street has been shown block by block. And I expressly went back to google street view to capture screen shots of all these images so as to better understand what potential it has or hasn't.

Gentrification takes time. It happens storefront by storefront, block by block. You seem to be all doom and gloom because Broadway doesn't look like Third Street promenade right this very moment. If you're going to be that impatient, you're going to be sorely disappointed for the next few years I'm afraid.

For those of us that actually live down here, the changes are apparent..and obvious. A new bar and a restaurant opening one week, a bookstore the next, a couple boutiques and another restaurant the week after that, etc. You live here, you walk the same streets every day, and you notice. But we're talking about a few new establishments every week. Downtown is a big place, and Broadway is a long street. So its going to be a long time before you can fire up Google Maps, give yourself a virtual tour, and say "Hey, Broadway is looking amazing!"

Just chill out, get some popcorn, and watch DTLA's slow and steady rise from the dead. Isn't it enough to know its coming back strong? And doing so in the midst of the worst recession any of us have experienced in our lives? It doesn't have to happen all at once.

[213]

DistrictDirt is right in that the transformation of Broadway will take time, and there's little point in begrudging the pace of it. As with most neighborhoods there are structural factors at work, in this case a tradition of premium rents that are among the highest per square-foot in the city. Current merchants make it work -- some just barely -- by way of no-frills presentation and a density/diversity of inexpensive goods that draws high traffic. Most conventional retailers do not generate sufficient sales per square-foot to make a Broadway location viable.

That said, rents have been easing somewhat due to both the economy and the emergence of competing Latino shopping hubs (notably Huntington Park). In a healthier financial and real estate climate this would incentivize landlords to redevelop disused space above street level, which in turn would help advance the demand-side (at least) of retail transformation. But the hole we're in is deep, and recovery effectively remains at least 5-to-10 years out.

In the meantime, one o' the great satisfactions of downtown living is the area's distinct diversity of textures and traditions, even if they're not uniformly to my particular taste. I enjoy the experience, and if I need Third Street Promenade I know where to find it.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

i think the best part about living downtown right now is to see all the change happen. its exciting and real. sure, its nice to be somewhere that is complete, but the transformation is fun to watch. We are shaping the neighborhood for the future with complete streets, new projects, restaurants and so on.

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

i think the best part about living downtown right now is to see all the change happen. its exciting and real. sure, its nice to be somewhere that is complete, but the transformation is fun to watch. We are shaping the neighborhood for the future with complete streets, new projects, restaurants and so on.

I totally agree. Even though I don't live downtown, I go there often enough to see that DTLA is totally transforming right before us. Spring Street especially is becoming a sort of Greenwich Village of sorts: full of stylish 30 somethings and hot gay guys with their tiny little dogs. There is a restaurant opening up almost every single week and the buzz about DTLA is still growing. It has a long way to go but it has already come a long way in a very short amount of time. DTLA wasn't the way it is today as recent as 2009. It really is an awesome time to be in LA.

Speaking of a restaurant opening every week, could this be South Park's Bottega Louie?

http://brighamyen.com/2011/07/06/towne-food-and-drink-coming-to-downtown-los-angeles/#more-5098

[JDRCRASH]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

http://la.curbed.com/archives/2011/07/do...d_tower_site_for_sale_for_17_million.php

That Libskind tower near Staples Center? Not going to happen. The lot is for sale at around 17 million.

I have to admit, i really hated the podium, but the tower ITSELF wasn't all that bad.
All in all, this is very disappointing news that makes me go as I edit Page 1...

[JDRCRASH]

And the "Cancelled" list continues to grow.

[LosAngelesDreamin]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

I totally agree. Even though I don't live downtown, I go there often enough to see that DTLA is totally transforming right before us. Spring Street especially is becoming a sort of Greenwich Village of sorts: full of stylish 30 somethings and hot gay guys with their tiny little dogs. There is a restaurant opening up almost every single week and the buzz about DTLA is still growing. It has a long way to go but it has already come a long way in a very short amount of time. DTLA wasn't the way it is today as recent as 2009. It really is an awesome time to be in LA.

Speaking of a restaurant opening every week, could this be South Park's Bottega Louie?

http://brighamyen.com/2011/07/06/towne-food-and-drink-coming-to-downtown-los-angeles/#more-5098

NICE!! =D im excited about this restaurant... Me and my sister LOVED bottega louie... can't wait to try this once it opens up ^.^

[LosAngelesDreamin]

Originally Posted by JDRCRASH

I have to admit, i really hated the podium, but the tower ITSELF wasn't all that bad.
All in all, this is very disappointing news that makes me go as I edit Page 1...

I actually liked the whole thing =/ it was different and would have been unique in the skyline.. not your typical LA building.. oh well