SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA: Transit/Transportation News

[Gordo]

^Ah, gotcha. My mistake.

northbay, definitely agree that SMART is needed. If done properly, it could really have a big impact on some of the rapidly growing Sonoma Co communities, and help to solidify Santa Rosa as a jobs/retail/activity hub for the North Bay.

[northbay]

haha. we're all so used to smart-bashing we can't take a compliment!

thanks for the clarification and compliment fflint. gordo - you're right on the money. i think it will really help san rafael also. it will be just a hop, skip and a jump away for san franciscans.

[northbay]

pretty cool, of course the opening ceremony already happened now:

Credits: Nathan Salant photo

Vallejo to open new downtown bus terminal on Monday

June 4th, 2011 9:43 pm PT
Nathan Salant, Solano County Buzz Examiner

Officials from the city, Solano County and regional agencies plan to be on hand Monday when the new Vallejo Transit Center opens for the first time.

A ribbon-cutting ceremony is scheduled for 10 a.m. at the new center at 311 Sacramento St. near Maine Street in downtown Vallejo.

The new center will feature protected bus stops, a ticket counter, restrooms and security, replacing the much-maligned transfer station at York and Marin streets.

Guests expected at Monday's ceremony include Vallejo Mayor Osby Davis and transit officials from the Solano Transportation Authority, the new Soltrans bus agency and the regional Metropolitan Transportation Commission in Oakland.

Other officials expected include representatives from the state Office of Historic Preservation and the office of U.S. Rep. George Miller (D-Martinez), according to the Vallejo Times-Herald newspaper.

The station is the first completed portion of the massive Vallejo Station project, which includes a parking structure on Mare Island Way to serve the ferry terminal and a pedestrian walkway up the hill and across Santa Clara Street to the bus facility.

Buses are expected to begin stopping at the new station on Tuesday.

The parking structure is under construction on Mare Island Way between Georgia Street and Maine.

Plans also call for replacing the downtown post office at Santa Clara and Georgia with additional parking facilities to serve the ferry and Vallejo's historic downtown.

Sites for a new post office are under consideration...

More information about the intermodal facility is available online at www.vallejostation.com.

http://www.examiner.com/solano-county-bu...own-bus-terminal-on-monday#ixzz1OblIrEce

also, here's the link to the website's photo gallery. check it out.
http://www.vallejostation.com/BTC_photo%20album/BTC_photo%20album/index.html

[CyberEric]

Anyone have any updates on the Central Subway project?

[ElDuderino]

Originally Posted by CyberEric

Anyone have any updates on the Central Subway project?

Central Subway design in San Francisco called inefficient, unsafe

By: Katie Worth | Examiner Staff Writer | 03/29/11 4:00 AM

Critics of the $1.58 billion Central Subway have called it expensive and unnecessary, and now they are taking issue with its design.

But Muni officials say any perceived design flaws were actually practical decisions.

On Monday, the planned line’s design was called unsafe and inefficient. Among the sticking points were single entrances at stations, short platforms that can only accommodate one two-car train in each direction and a lengthy transfer to the Market Street subway.

The Moscone Center and Chinatown stations will both have only a single entrance, which could be a problem for crowds in emergency situations, according to Howard Wong, a former Muni engineer and member of SaveMuni, an organization seeking to change the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency’s funding priorities.

“So the question is, what if there’s a massive fire, or a terrorist attack at that point, and there’s a lot of smoke and confusion?” Wong said, adding that passengers could become backed up from the street level down to the train platform.

However, Central Subway Project Director John Funghi said every station will have well-lit emergency exits. He said having a single exit can, in some cases, help contain certain calamities.

Wong criticized the decision to use short platforms, which can only accommodate a single two-car train in each direction. He said not only does that limit Muni’s ability to run three-car trains, but it can create a problem if a vehicle breaks down at a platform.

Funghi said the decision to run two-car trains was made by the SFMTA when the T-Third Street line’s platforms were built. The underground platforms, he said, could be lengthened later at an additional cost.

SaveMuni members also took umbrage with a long passageway connecting the new line to the Market Street subway. The walk is expected to take 4½ minutes on average.

Moving walkways were considered, Funghi said, until it was discovered that the underground passageway is too narrow. He said the SFMTA is now looking at rest areas, and placing escalators and elevators in areas that will shorten the walk.

The Central Subway, which is currently in the final design phase, would carry passengers from the Caltrain station at Fourth and King streets north to Chinatown, with stops at Moscone Center and Union Square. Initial construction work has already started, and trains could be running by 2018.

The project has been heavily criticized as being too expensive and producing too little benefit for riders at a time when the SFMTA faces a $21.2 million budget shortfall for this fiscal year and an uncertain financial future.

SaveMuni member Gerald Cauthen said money spent for the new line would be better used to improve the existing bus system. However, he said, if the SFMTA insists on moving forward with the subway, it should be designed to move people around more safely and efficiently.

“This is a boondoggle,” Cauthen said. “But if you’re going to build a subway, you should build it right.

Read more at the San Francisco Examiner: http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/transpor...nciscio-called-inefficient#ixzz1PxCBABFz

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/transpor...center-san-franciscio-called-inefficient

[CyberEric]

Thank you. Unfortunately that article is pretty old. If anyone has any current news/updates, please let me know.

[fflint]

Muni approves $233M contract for Central Subway tunneling project in San Francisco

Will Reisman
San Francisco Examiner
06/28/11

Muni’s board of directors approved a $233 million tunneling contract for its Central Subway project on Tuesday, a move seen as an essential step by the agency, but decried by its critics as too hasty.

The seven-person board voted unanimously to award the tunnel-boring contract — the largest construction package of the agency’s $1.6 billion undertaking — to Barnard Impregilo Healy, a Montana-based contractor. The Central Subway, scheduled to open in 2019, will extend Muni’s underground Metro service from the Financial District to Chinatown.

Nathaniel Ford, executive director of the Municipal Transportation Agency, which operates Muni, said “this tunneling contract is a major part of opening a dynamic, new era in rapid transit for the people of San Francisco, and especially for those traveling along the congested Stockton corridor.”
....
http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/2011/06/...ling-project-san-francisco#ixzz1QhvxKDhn

[fflint]

BART sets ridership record during Pride, San Francisco Giants events
San Francisco Examiner
06/27/11 4:42 PM

The people attending Pride festivities and the San Francisco Giants game this weekend lead to BART setting a Sunday ridership record, according to the transit agency.

Nearly a quarter million people rode BART on Sunday. The 247,936 riders was 23,477 higher than the previous Sunday record, which was set on June 28, 2008, according to BART.
....
http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/2011/06/...content=feed&utm_term=feed#ixzz1QhxUy2Al

[CyberEric]

Originally Posted by fflint

Muni approves $233M contract for Central Subway tunneling project in San Francisco

Will Reisman
San Francisco Examiner
06/28/11

Muni’s board of directors approved a $233 million tunneling contract for its Central Subway project on Tuesday, a move seen as an essential step by the agency, but decried by its critics as too hasty.

The seven-person board voted unanimously to award the tunnel-boring contract — the largest construction package of the agency’s $1.6 billion undertaking — to Barnard Impregilo Healy, a Montana-based contractor. The Central Subway, scheduled to open in 2019, will extend Muni’s underground Metro service from the Financial District to Chinatown.

Nathaniel Ford, executive director of the Municipal Transportation Agency, which operates Muni, said “this tunneling contract is a major part of opening a dynamic, new era in rapid transit for the people of San Francisco, and especially for those traveling along the congested Stockton corridor.”
....
http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/2011/06/...ling-project-san-francisco#ixzz1QhvxKDhn

Great news! Anytime I see fflint has posted in a thread, I can usually count that it is something worthwhile. Much appreciated. I am extremely happy to see this moving forward.

Originally Posted by fflint

BART sets ridership record during Pride, San Francisco Giants events
San Francisco Examiner
06/27/11 4:42 PM

The people attending Pride festivities and the San Francisco Giants game this weekend lead to BART setting a Sunday ridership record, according to the transit agency.

Nearly a quarter million people rode BART on Sunday. The 247,936 riders was 23,477 higher than the previous Sunday record, which was set on June 28, 2008, according to BART.
....
http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/2011/06/...content=feed&utm_term=feed#ixzz1QhxUy2Al

I was on BART two separate times on Sunday and it was as full as I have ever seen it. N Judah at rush hour full.

[logan5]

I was looking at the BART figures in Wikipedia, and I calculated an average station spacing of 3.8 km, but the average speed is given at 53 km/h. For comparisons sake, Skytrain here in Vancouver has stations every 1.5 km and an average speed of 45 km/h. More than twice as many stations yet only 7 km/h slower.

I'm not trying to dis BART or brag about Skytrain, I'm wondering why BART is so slow? Much appreciated.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by logan5

I was looking at the BART figures in Wikipedia, and I calculated an average station spacing of 3.8 km, but the average speed is given at 53 km/h. For comparisons sake, Skytrain here in Vancouver has stations every 1.5 km and an average speed of 45 km/h. More than twice as many stations yet only 7 km/h slower.

I'm not trying to dis BART or brag about Skytrain, I'm wondering why BART is so slow? Much appreciated.

Signaling (train controls) is probably the major reason. Skytrain was designed to be fully automated, length of track sections are probably far shorter than BART, which was designed for human drivers.

[fflint]

I don't think we have been shown BART is "so slow" relative to other systems, so the question "why" is a bit premature.

[bardak]

Originally Posted by fflint

I don't think we have been shown BART is "so slow" relative to other systems, so the question "why" is a bit premature.

No need to be so defensive. The question was a completely valid one even if it could have been worded a bit better. Simply put why is BART slower than Skytrain when you account for station spacing? The answer is most likely a combination of Skytrains moving-block signaling, Automation, and the acceleration of it's LIM.

[fflint]

Originally Posted by bardak

No need to be so defensive. The question was a completely valid one even if it could have been worded a bit better. Simply put why is BART slower than Skytrain when you account for station spacing? The answer is most likely a combination of Skytrains moving-block signaling, Automation, and the acceleration of it's LIM.

The question "Why is BART so slow?" simply assumes what it tries to show--that BART is slow. That is a logical fallacy called 'begging the question.'

Is BART really 'so slow' compared to similar systems? Maybe it is, maybe not--just going on what's been posted here, we cannot say.

BART's average speed is *faster* than Skytrain, by the way, not slower.

[logan5]

Looking at other commuter systems with similar station spacing, there is an average speed of 60 Km/h, which still seems kinda slow to me. So BART is slower than most systems, but not a lot slower. The top speed of these other commuter lines is 160 km/h, so that's probably the difference.

It would be interesting to see how Skytrain would perform given 4 km station spacing. I wonder if linear induction motors and automation would make a lot of difference.

[fflint]

Originally Posted by logan5

Looking at other commuter systems with similar station spacing, there is an average speed of 60 Km/h

What is your source for this figure? To what systems are you comparing BART?

which still seems kinda slow to me. So BART is slower than most systems, but not a lot slower. The top speed of these other commuter lines is 160 km/h, so that's probably the difference.

BART is a third-rail metro limited by the Feds to a max speed of 80mph.

[bardak]

Originally Posted by fflint

BART's average speed is *faster* than Skytrain, by the way, not slower.

Yes it is on average but if you actually take into account the station spacing as I said it is obvious that Skytrian would be faster if they had the same spacing. Is the Skytrain better than BART? no. They are both different systems that have different designs and goals.

Originally Posted by logan5

It would be interesting to see how Skytrain would perform given 4 km station spacing. I wonder if would make a lot of difference.

You would gain the most from linear induction motors and automation in the stations so the only gains that you would get is n any corners that you would need to slow done on. Larger the spacing the less you gain. That being said anymore talk about Skytrian specifics should probably be in the Vancouver section.

[fflint]

Originally Posted by bardak

Yes it is on average but if you actually take into account the station spacing as I said it is obvious that Skytrian would be faster if they had the same spacing.

Would be faster than BART or would be faster than Skytrain currently runs? I'm not sure what you're saying, let alone if it is obviously true.

BART moves its passengers an average of 33 miles in one hour. Skytrain moves its passengers an average of 28 miles in one hour. Skytrain has closer stations. As the two systems are currently configured and operated, it may well be Skytrain accelerates and decelerates more rapidly to and from its maximum operating speed (58mph) than BART does to its own max (80mph). It is not obviously true Skytrain could or would run as fast or faster than BART on the Bay Area's system, with trains hitting 79mph in stretches like the 3.6-mile Transbay Tube, nor is it obviously true that BART couldn't or wouldn't cover the Skytrain system as fast or faster than Skytrain.

It seems to me both agencies are likely running their trains in a way that attains a certain average trip speed, and tuning everything to that metric.

It sure would be fun to have some urban version of NASCAR--heavy rail drag racing!

[fflint]

Just found a BART legal document stating "[T]he typical operating speed for BART trains is 70 miles per hour."

BART says its average trip speed of 33 mph includes 20-second station dwell times. That is apparently long for third-rail systems. I know the next generation BART trains are being planned with an additional pair of doorways to facilitate faster boarding/exiting, but never realized people considered a train that runs typically at 70 mph "so slow"!

[CyberEric]

This is completely anecdotal, but I'll share that in my experience, BART spends a lot of time sitting at stations with the doors open, which goes along with what was mentioned about long dwell times.

I ride BART everyday for nearly an hour and I am consistently amazed/frustrated at how long we sit at stations, doors open, with no one getting on or off. I think this could be the main reason it's "slower."