Halifax Transit

[Jonovision]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I don't see the advantage of that. Every bus heading from SGR and Robie inbound goes to Scotia Square I believe and I think people already know that. Outbound from SS I think the only one that does not go to SGR and Robie is the #10. The problem is not getting from SS to SGR & Robie or vice-versa. The problem is getting from either of those 2 points to your ultimate destination. Not much benefit to getting to SS quickly if the only bus to take you home doesn't come for another hour.

Some people might know. But the majority of office workers do not. And many people also wait only for the #1 because they know for sure that it will take them along that route, when in fact many other buses will also do it. The main point of the idea is to increase frequency artificially. It could allow an office worker at Scotia Square to come out for lunch and hop on a bus and head up to SG and back without having to wait for the #1. It's also a branding tool. It could make it more appealing and sexier which makes people more likely to use it.

[Jstaleness]

I think it is also a good idea. As far as the office workers going from Duke to SGR, it would make the difference. A lot of people that drive to work don't know buses at all and don't feel comfortable even trying them. If they knew about the "green line" they would be more likely to use it as they wouldn't be afraid of getting on the wrong bus. On top of that the frequency would be every few mins.

[halifaxboyns]

Another option would be to improve the information that riders get at key locations. For example: If you are at Scotia Square and you don't know what buses go up SGR - then perhaps improved information showing a map or a list of buses that go up SGR would work?

Another option that had been talked about a long time ago (but never seemed to get implemented) was a route finder kiosk at Scotia Square. That way; you could put in your hotel or the corner of the streets you wanted to get too and then the computer would have the entire route schedule and map of routes and give you the top 5 options.

Another solution which could be done which would only require some reprogramming of the display screens on the buses is changing the information displayed. If people don't know that the 80 or the 20 go up SGR, then perhaps the sign should read (from Scotia Square) 80 Sackville via SGR or 20 Herring Cove via SGR. Then once the routes get beyond SGR, they change the sign to just say 80 Sackville/20 Herring Cove.

This way, you'd not only have the 1 showing Spring Garden Road but the 14, 20, 80 and whatever others would too...

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Another solution which could be done which would only require some reprogramming of the display screens on the buses is changing the information displayed. If people don't know that the 80 or the 20 go up SGR, then perhaps the sign should read (from Scotia Square) 80 Sackville via SGR or 20 Herring Cove via SGR. Then once the routes get beyond SGR, they change the sign to just say 80 Sackville/20 Herring Cove.

This way, you'd not only have the 1 showing Spring Garden Road but the 14, 20, 80 and whatever others would too...

I quite like this idea. Route 1 is the most popular route not only because of it linear routing between busy terminals but also because it clearly shows its destinations (Spring Garden to Dartmouth, Spring Garden to Mumford). Short routes like this one should have their final destination and a major destination shown. Longer routes should have final destination and incremental "via" routing shown. Here are some examples (one directional) using the Bedford/Sackville routes;

80 - Sackville via Spring Garden, Sackville via Young/Bayers, Sackville via Bedford Hwy, Sackville via Sackville Drive
81 - Hemlocke Ravine via Spring Garden, Hemlocke Ravine via Young/Bayers, Hemlocke Ravine via Bedford Hwy
82 - Sackville via First Lake, Sackville via Millwood
83 - Springfield via Sackville Drive
84 - Sackville via Spring Garden, Sackville via Barrington, Sackville via Windmill, Sackville via Glendale
85 - Cobequid via Spring Garden, Cobequid via Barrington, Cobequid via Windmill, Cobequid via Hwy 101, Cobequid via Glendale
86 - Bedford via Spring Garden, Bedford via Gottingen, Bedford via MSVU, Bedford via Lacewood, Bedford via Basinview, Bedford via Sunnyside
87 - Sackville via Highfield, Sackville via Windmill, Sackville via Glendale
88 - Bedford Commons via Glendale/Duke
89 - Cobequid via Parkland, Cobequid via Atlantic Acres, Cobequid via Hammonds Plains Road (HPR for short), Cobequid via Sunnyside

[-Harlington-]

Bus terminal construction could start later in summer


Wed, Jul 6 - 4:54 AM

Halifax city hall is still waiting to start a $12-million bus terminal replacement project in Dartmouth, but ground could be broken at the development site later this summer.

Senior city staff told Halifax regional council Tuesday the Metro Transit project, in the works for years, is being reviewed by the provincial government with respect to the disposal of pyritic slate.

Council heard the province has given tentative approval to Halifax Regional Municipality’s slate management plan.

Also, a storm sewer situation had to be resolved before the project could move forward, municipal staff said.

Deputy mayor Jim Smith (Albro Lake-Harbourview) said he hopes the new bus depot, near the Dartmouth Sportsplex and Dartmouth High School, will be built soon.

He said "residents all over HRM have been diligently waiting for this project to get underway."

The term of the old tender for the project has expired.

Angry transit union executives have said the city should have built the terminal years ago.

"If they really want to get stuff done, you get it done," Ken Wilson, president of Local 508 of the Amalgamated Transit Union, told The Chronicle Herald in May.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

I quite like this idea. Route 1 is the most popular route not only because of it linear routing between busy terminals but also because it clearly shows its destinations (Spring Garden to Dartmouth, Spring Garden to Mumford). Short routes like this one should have their final destination and a major destination shown. Longer routes should have final destination and incremental "via" routing shown. Here are some examples (one directional) using the Bedford/Sackville routes;

80 - Sackville via Spring Garden, Sackville via Young/Bayers, Sackville via Bedford Hwy, Sackville via Sackville Drive
81 - Hemlocke Ravine via Spring Garden, Hemlocke Ravine via Young/Bayers, Hemlocke Ravine via Bedford Hwy
82 - Sackville via First Lake, Sackville via Millwood
83 - Springfield via Sackville Drive
84 - Sackville via Spring Garden, Sackville via Barrington, Sackville via Windmill, Sackville via Glendale
85 - Cobequid via Spring Garden, Cobequid via Barrington, Cobequid via Windmill, Cobequid via Hwy 101, Cobequid via Glendale
86 - Bedford via Spring Garden, Bedford via Gottingen, Bedford via MSVU, Bedford via Lacewood, Bedford via Basinview, Bedford via Sunnyside
87 - Sackville via Highfield, Sackville via Windmill, Sackville via Glendale
88 - Bedford Commons via Glendale/Duke
89 - Cobequid via Parkland, Cobequid via Atlantic Acres, Cobequid via Hammonds Plains Road (HPR for short), Cobequid via Sunnyside

The route 10 here in Calgary has 4 message changes along the route. One at each end and then two at the midpoint, for each direction.

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

The route 10 here in Calgary has 4 message changes along the route. One at each end and then two at the midpoint, for each direction.

That route number rings a bell. Is it the main bus route that runs from City Centre (in front of the Bow) north over the river, up the main drag to some sprawly parking lot in the 'burbs? I think I used it quite a bit last summer

[halifaxboyns]

Halifax looks for faster ferry
CBC News
Posted: Jul 12, 2011 6:00 PM AT

Halifax has tested fast ferries in the past, but is now on the market for a new design.Halifax has tested fast ferries in the past, but is now on the market for a new design. CBC

Halifax's Metro Transit is in the market for a faster ferry — but not the much-discussed fast ferry to Bedford.

Instead, the transit authority is looking for a vessel that could double the speed of the current fleet and improve times on the Woodside-to-Halifax run. It also wants to expand that service beyond peak hours.

The rest of the story can be found here.

[Dmajackson]

SURPRISE!!! Metro Transit once again gives the cold shoulder to Bedford. Even the idea of adding basic and necessary bus routes to our growing community is unfathomable let alone long-promise transit plans. A BRT is pointless (worst traffic in HRM), a new ferry is apparently impossible to a place thats had one running for centuries, and Metro Transit won't even admit Bedford has a rail-line.

For the past two years Metro Transit has secretly cut down hours on most of Bedford's existing routes, it has scrapped the plans for a fast ferry and completely ignored calls for a study on rail. It has taken the new buses promised to the Bedford-Sackville area for growth and used them on new and expanded routes in Mainland Halifax, Downtown and Dartmouth only (no new routes out here and the ones from 2008 has a headway of 2 hours now). The report that identified the need to reroute the 87 through Bedford was bashed in by MT officials because it would cause a small delay for Sackville riders (which have multiple identical routes and a Link).

Bedford has over 20'000 residents and to this day no new bus routes are planned for the area. There is no terminal in Bedford (yet Sackville has three and rural Tantallon has a Park 'N Ride), and connections to other terminals are horrendous at best. There is no direct link to Mumford, Bridge, or Alderney Terminals. The most direct full-time route heading into the Urban Core takes 1 hour 15 minutes to get downtown during rush-hour (real time not scheduled hence why the 80 is constantly late). Hell transit service in Bedford is so bad we have our own jokes about Metro Transit. Here's some you know you use Bedford buses when ...

- A good commute is standing room only for an hour straight,
- You use the oldest bus in the fleet multiple times a week and have experienced it breaking down before,
- You have time to take a nap, read the Metro front to back and complete the sudoku all on one bus ride,
- Hearing your bus is an hour and a half late doesn't surprise you,
- Your bus isn't 2 minutes early, its 28 minutes late,
- You know every building on all the main roads in HRM,
- The concept of an express route confuses you,
- You don't question why the Bedford Commons is only accessible from Sackville,
- Your cyclist friend has a faster commute than you,
- You live in the centre of town and don't have to pay the 500m transit tax.

anyways I will stop ranting here and leave with this one quirky fact; No Metro Transit route has Bedford written in its name or routing description.

[halifaxboyns]

I don't know if I would take it the same with DJ is...

The existing ferries are old, they do need to be replaced soon. Especially in light of rising fuel costs, newer boats are more fuel efficient.

I made a couple comments on that article and my focus was on a common fleet. If you have the same type of vessel operating on the existing routes, you have the ability to reduce your costs for training, maintenance and facilities because it's the same boat, same parts, same training and same building design (more or less). Then you also have the ability in peek times to move the boats faster, so the trip time reduces. This could lead to greater frequency of trips in peak hours to and from downtown (and could be increased for special events too).

The bonus I see is that with a common vessel is that the same boat that may run between Dartmouth and Halifax today could do a run from Bedford to Halifax tomorrow. You end up with capacity that can be shifted, where demand warrents.

Woodside should be the focus because the infrastructure is there now. But that doesn't mean that the next step after Woodside goes 7 days a week shouldn't be Bedford. The problem I see is that the ferry terminal is built into that man-made island concept, which will take years to build out (unless there is a concept for a temporary facility while the island is created).

It will probably take about 10 years to get all the vessels built and delivered, in which time a lot of progress could be made on the Bedford West infill. By that point, Bedford will be the next logical step.

[Nouvellecosse]

I just hope that the new ones will have top deck open. Van Seabuses are enclosed and I think that would 🞵🞵🞵🞵.

[someone123]

I agree that Bedford has bad transit. Unfortunately, it's difficult to serve because of its transportation network (sprawly subdivisions and only a couple of main routes) and distance from Halifax.

I'm not sure how much faith I have that they will have suitable new ferries operating by 2014, but it would be great to have a standard ferry capable of serving Dartmouth/Woodside as well as Bedford and Herring Cove. Pretty soon traffic will be bad enough in Bedford that ferry speeds can be pretty slow yet still be worthwhile. A train would be better but the chances of that getting out to Bedford at some point during the next 10 years is approximately zero.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by someone123

I agree that Bedford has bad transit. Unfortunately, it's difficult to serve because of its transportation network (sprawly subdivisions and only a couple of main routes) and distance from Halifax.

I'm not sure how much faith I have that they will have suitable new ferries operating by 2014, but it would be great to have a standard ferry capable of serving Dartmouth/Woodside as well as Bedford and Herring Cove. Pretty soon traffic will be bad enough in Bedford that ferry speeds can be pretty slow yet still be worthwhile. A train would be better but the chances of that getting out to Bedford at some point during the next 10 years is approximately zero.

Both train and ferry are dependant upon the infill project at Mill Cove to be done. I'm not sure how long it will take, but with either a temporary terminal could be created will the 'infill island' is built.

[pblaauw]

"The next bus on route 1 will depart in 11 minutes. The following bus will depart in 11 minutes."

This doesn't sound to me like GoTime is following the schedule. At least, not this particular stop. (Quinpool/Oxford, outside the theatre, southbound.)

It also renders that specific call to GoTime pretty useless.

[Keith P.]

You never know with Metro Transit. That could indeed be their schedule.

[ewjonsson]

Originally Posted by pblaauw

"The next bus on route 1 will depart in 11 minutes. The following bus will depart in 11 minutes."

This doesn't sound to me like GoTime is following the schedule. At least, not this particular stop. (Quinpool/Oxford, outside the theatre, southbound.)

It also renders that specific call to GoTime pretty useless.

To me this is a good thing. Metro Transit recently updated GoTime to provide more real-time information, so it sounds like the bus was late, the system told you about it, and then told you the next scheduled bus. Obviously a few kinks need to be worked out, but I think it is one step closer to having access to the entire Metro Transit GPS system.

As for improved transit to Bedford, I was just at a briefing put on by city staffers and the acting GM of Metro Transit, and it didn't look too good. The point that was brought up was that both the proposed ferry landing and all the train stations have one large flaw: half of the geographic area they would serve is the basin. Now the solution to this is to put a large park and ride lot there, but nobody would want to put a huge parking lot directly on valuable waterfront land, especially in Bedford. The engineer from the city seemed more anti-train than anything, so I figure a ferry would have more chance of success.

I really hope that we can get some more ferry routes going in Halifax, but after that meeting, I am not gonna hold my breath. The best we can hope for is improved bus service.

ps: on a side note, I was thinking about biking around the Basin this weekend, DJ can you recommend a good route or is the Bedford highway to Windmill my best bet?

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by ewjonsson

The engineer from the city seemed more anti-train than anything, so I figure a ferry would have more chance of success.

HRM and Metro Transit officials have been anti-rail for some time now, so this is no surprise. Seems odd since the ferry is such an inferior option by comparison.

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by ewjonsson

ps: on a side note, I was thinking about biking around the Basin this weekend, DJ can you recommend a good route or is the Bedford highway to Windmill my best bet?

Biking up the Magazine Hill is unbelievably hard and dangerous so I'd recommend head outbound (northbound) on the Bedford Highway. At Meadowbrook Drive (where the bike lanes end) there is a path connecting to Shore Drive. I'd head down Shore Drive to Wardour (third intersection) and over to Dartmouth Road which after climbing an annoyingly long hill will put you on the Magazine Hill (downhill). Bikes are banned from the Victoria Road Overpass so once you get through Burnside turn down Windmill Road.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

HRM and Metro Transit officials have been anti-rail for some time now, so this is no surprise. Seems odd since the ferry is such an inferior option by comparison.

I don't think I agree that a ferry is a bad option. It's an easier and different option.

Rail has the advantage of being able to extend further into the burbs, because you could hit mill cove, but then also Sunnyside and have a major park and ride lot at Windsor Junction and then extend up into Beaverbank. This would then give the option to extend service down to Windsor. On the flip side, you could also extend the rail service up the CN main line to Wellington and Grand Lake. Obviously a ferry can't extend to those locations, so it's weak in that sense.

But, a high speed ferry has the advantage of not being restricted in it's routing. So while you could have service to downtown during rush hours, you could also operate a ferry over to Dartmouth (say to the Akerley area) and establish a terminal that serves Burnside. You could also provide a route to downtown Dartmouth, or if a stadium were built at Shannon Park, a special route to a ferry terminal there (from Bedford) on event days could ease traffic. Plus, capacity wise, the two can easily provide good capacity to get people to and from the destinations each route serves.

For me, ferry has a slight edge over rail because the route is not restricted and can change as needed.

[Keith P.]

Ferries are inferior in several ways. Unlike other options they are severely limited in capacity because of the cost of the ferries themselves. At best we would hope to have 2 or 3 or 4 (boy, more opium!!) fast ferries, each with capacity of perhaps 200 souls. That would cost somewhere in the vicinity of $100 million not including the land-based infrastructure required. They would move a limited number of people compared to other options. And then of course you are dealing with having to move across rough water in poor weather and the reasonable fear many people have of doing exactly that. And remember that a "fast" ferry is not really fast. The current scows travel at 8 knots and the fast versions are said to average double that speed. That is still very slow compared to rail or BRT. And while they may not be limited by routing, they are limited by having a place to dock. No, ferries are always going to be inferior.