Highways in Canada

[vid]

Thunder Bay is probably one of the few cities where all of our arterial roads connect in a nearly flawless net. We've just got three more connections to go before the 1981 master plan is "finished"; two are on hold because industrial uses still occupy the lands they will be built on (and one involves a new bridge over a river), and a third is on hold because we built the houses it will serve before we built the road, and now the people in the houses don't want it. Ironically, I suppose, that is the only road that will be built in the near future, it starts in 2019. The other two are still indefinitely on hold, even though they're needed the most.

Does London have any 4-lane roads with more than 3 intersections per kilometre masquerading as "expressways"?

[Koolfire]

Originally Posted by vid

Does London have any 4-lane roads with more than 3 intersections per kilometre masquerading as "expressways"?

Vid, it pretty common to have that. Calgary, 6 lanes with 7 intersections (All lights) in 2.5KM(Barlow Trail north between Sunridge Way to 48th Ave). Blackfoot Trail has similar sections but not as bad. Trail = Expressway in Calgary.

[MolsonExport]

HYDE. PARK. ROAD.

You betcha. From the land of liver&onions. A veritable parking lot all weekend, on account of the Walfart & Dumbcentre at one end of a TWO-LANE road and the SuperStore/Oakridge Boys Centre at the other end of a TWO-LANE road.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by vid

Does London have any 4-lane roads with more than 3 intersections per kilometre masquerading as "expressways"?

Sort of; it has an "expressway" that is nothing more than a suburban arterial. Compare the Oxford-Trafalgar section of the VMP in London (http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=veter...81.141028&spn=0.016197,0.038581&t=h&z=15) with these sections of Leslie Street and Don Mills Road in Toronto (http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_...79.344549&spn=0.016002,0.038581&t=h&z=15)

PROTIP: Aside from the driveways that come out onto Leslie and Don Mills, these URBAN arterials have fewer signalized intersections through their respective industrial areas than the VMP does through its built-up area. And the speed limit on all roads shown here is... you guessed it, sixty.

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

You betcha. From the land of liver&onions. A veritable parking lot all weekend, on account of the Walfart & Dumbcentre at one end of a TWO-LANE road and the SuperStore/Oakridge Boys Centre at the other end of a TWO-LANE road.

And on top of that, nobody ever gave a southerly extension over the Thames any thought. Thinking back, connecting Hutton Road to the Wonderland Sideroad must have been the most brilliant act of foresight in London's history.

[Manoose]

If some people think it's egregious that Ontario highways don't have non-Ontario cities as control cities for the most part I wonder what you would think of the signs on the I-80 that direct you to "Canada via exit 53" such as the one around Buffalo. Poor granny might think she's within a half hour of Tuktoyaktuk when she's actually about ten days away. Highway 17 in northwestern Ontario needs to be twinned for the sole reason that it's a death trap! I had to make the drive to Thunder Bay in 2007 and north of the Soo Highway 17 is about the world's worst road you want to be contending with after dark. Never again would I do it and I'm somewhat surprised I managed to live through that horrible highway. The fact that the control city on Highway 17 northwest of Sault Ste Marie is the metropolis of Wawa some 500 kms away is the first sign road conditions ain't gonna be improving. Once you're past Wawa/Michipicoten and you're cruising along the northern shores of Superior it only gets worse. You know a highway is bad when the police stop you for the sole reason that you're driving and suggest you spend the night in a parking lot in the next town. The OPP stopped me in the middle of nowhere in North Western Ontario and suggested I spend the night parked in Nipigon because of visibility after dark.

[haljackey]

Yeah it's crazy that the centre of the country is connected by just one two-lane highway and two single-track rail lines between Lake Superior and Hudson Bay.

To make things even crazier, the highway is undivided and features grades as steep as 18% through the Canadian Shield.

There is no demand to expand it as traffic volumes do not warrant it. That shouldn't stop them from upgrading safety features, however.

[vid]

There have been times where a combination of car accidents and forest fires have closed the highway and both rail links, effectively isolating both halves of Canada from each other except by air travel. Most locals driving that route will leave just before sunrise so that they're not driving at night. You get to the other city in mid-afternoon so you've got time to enjoy it. If you leave after 1pm, you won't get to the other end until nighttime. It's worse in winter because you only get 8 hours of light.

It's scarily beautiful when it's foggy though.

Anyway on the issue of NWO highways, 11/17 between Kakabeka Falls and Shabaqua is being "improved". That just means "minor repairs are being done".

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by haljackey

There is no demand to expand it as traffic volumes do not warrant it. That shouldn't stop them from upgrading safety features, however.

Maybe if the government wasn't so fixated on fighter jets they could look at some more substantial upgrades for Highway 17. I think the North Superior section would benefit from upgrades that make it more like a Super-2; paved shoulders and limited access would both be nice.

The Superior section is inherently dangerous because of the landscape it crosses, but traffic loads between the Soo and Ottawa are definitely high enough to warrant a twinning project. I thought the part running along the North end of Algonquin would be relatively clear, but it too was choked with traffic. It really should be a government priority to finish that particular project by 2020.

[haljackey]

It's getting bigger!

6 to 14 lane widening on Highway 401 in Mississauga:



(From the 401 Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_401)

[MolsonExport]

The monster groweth

[Pimpmasterdac]

Drove by Hurontario way back from Toronto massssive widening going on, but certainly needed. I'd like to be around when they demolish that old overpass, similar to when the Wellington overpass was demolished in London, but in way more busy area.

Now if Toronto can start a widening like that on the DVP, traffic might start moving for a change

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by haljackey

To make things even crazier, the highway is undivided and features grades as steep as 18% through the Canadian Shield.

18%?? Seriously? That seems awfully high. I've only driven the North Superior stretch once, and while it was terrifying at night with the fog (PS: something everyone should try once) I don't recall anything that steep.

I drive in the Rockies all the time and the steepest grades you typically see on highways are in the 10-12% range, and only for short stretches. Anything longer is generally graded to 6-8%. 18% just sounds insane on a paved highway.

I'd love to know where if true - because I'd make a point of checking it out. Sounds intense.

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

Drove by Hurontario way back from Toronto massssive widening going on, but certainly needed. I'd like to be around when they demolish that old overpass, similar to when the Wellington overpass was demolished in London, but in way more busy area.

Now if Toronto can start a widening like that on the DVP, traffic might start moving for a change

The DVP has a bit more of a phycisal barrier than the 401 to control how wide it is..

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

The DVP has a bit more of a phycisal barrier than the 401 to control how wide it is..

Flying cars will make freeway lanes obsolete.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by freeweed

18%?? Seriously? That seems awfully high. I've only driven the North Superior stretch once, and while it was terrifying at night with the fog (PS: something everyone should try once) I don't recall anything that steep.

I drive in the Rockies all the time and the steepest grades you typically see on highways are in the 10-12% range, and only for short stretches. Anything longer is generally graded to 6-8%. 18% just sounds insane on a paved highway.

I'd love to know where if true - because I'd make a point of checking it out. Sounds intense.

The steepest I thought were about 8% on some of the hills.

[Andy6]

The drop at Montreal River is a pretty steep drop. No idea what the grade is in numbers though. I'd doubt there's much on the main highways in the Rockies that would be steeper.

Unless there's fog or rain, how would the visibility after dark be any different on Highway 17 than anywhere else? It's dark. There isn't any light from buildings and it can be very lonely but, come on, this is Canada. I suppose that as we turn into an urban culture, and as people no longer grow up going on long family car trips across the country, the vast dark emptiness of much of Canada's open road is no longer as familiar as it once was.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by Andy6

I suppose that as we turn into an urban culture, and as people no longer grow up going on long family car trips across the country, the vast dark emptiness of much of Canada's open road is no longer as familiar as it once was.

As we turn into an urban culture, our cities consume an ever larger quantity of goods and services, which in turn results in higher traffic volumes on these highways, making them more dangerous at night (and day) than they used to be.

An example of this is Ontario Highway 69, especially during the summer months. The intersection with Highway 637 to Killarney is particularly scary; I've seen a number of close calls between passenger cars and transport trucks at that spot. Needless to say I was quite glad to see an interchange under construction last time I went. Twinning the entire stretch from Barrie to Sudbury has been years in the making and is long overdue.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by haljackey

...To make things even crazier, the highway is undivided and features grades as steep as 18% through the Canadian Shield.
...

Steepest allowable grade on a 2-digit "Kings' Highway" in Ontario is 8%. The actual steepest grade between T Bay and the Soo is 7%. Someone mentioned Montreal River hill ... that is only a 6% grade. There is NO 18% grade King's highway in Ontario.

Conservatively, I have driven the stretch from T Bay to the Soo about 40+ times (family split between T Bay and Toronto) and have driven most roads between Calgary and Vancouver. The North Shore is a challenging highway, but not really any worse than any road out west. That said, I have yet to see absolute white outs in the Rockies as bad as some of those I have been in around Rossport->Marathon or along Batchawana.

Last time I did the drive was 2 summers ago and I really didn't think it was any worse than many other 2 lane streches along Canada since most trucks take the Northern route - now that can get scarry when you meet a 10 truck convoy around Moonbeam!

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by shreddog

There is NO 18% grade King's highway in Ontario.

Here's the sign for the 18% grade on Highway 17:

http://maps.google.ca/?ll=45.743803,-77....Bi15umGAGn2iQ&cbp=12,210.34,,2,2.37&z=19

And here's a 18% grade sign for Highway 65:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8...gojxStyDf1x9OBPkGV8Q&cbp=12,18.61,,1,1.4

Crazy!

[Dwils01]

I'm from Northern Ontario and I never knew we had 18% grades. I thought our steepest greades were along Lake Superior but I never thought one would be in Eastern Ontario.