Blame Surrey?

[dennis1]

I see a lot of people on the internet turning of the Suburbs of Vancouver and blaming surrey. Is this fair?

[whatnext]

It would be interesting to get a breakdown of where everybody charged was from.

I get the impression a lot of "Canuck fan" hooldums were from the 'burbs, while the anarchists who got in on the act are probably from East Van basements or flop houses.

[SpikePhanta]

I don't think Surrey is only to blame, but because it's the suburbs they shouod be included.

Many people came from far away, like some from the island and interior.
But the trend is showing many people who don't live in Vancouver proper were participating in the riots.

[BCPhil]

I don't think you could blame Surrey, but there does seem to be something up with people from the suburbs going into downtown and showing it no respect. Nathan Kotylak for example comes from a well off family in Maple Ridge, his dad is a surgeon, mom a nurse, they live in a million dollar home, he is an elite athlete with a scholarship to a University. He came into downtown, silverspoon in mouth, and decided to take part in trashing the city. I don't know if people just feel disenfranchised (when they are obviously well off) or just resent Vancouver, or are just bored, but there is definitely something wrong with the attitude of many people in the Suburbs around Vancouver.

[Metro-One]

Wow, just wow, i love this pass the bucket to the burbs bullshit on here.

Again, where is the lions share of our metro's population located? The burbs!

Each community generally has the same % of assholes

Do people on here really believe there is sudden massive cultural shift on the east side of Boundary, across the Fraser and the Inlet????

Do they really believe that these trivial borders really make any difference in attitude????

Again, just laugh out loud stupidity on here.

[quobobo]

Do they really believe that these trivial borders really make any difference in attitude????

It's not the borders that make a difference, but there really are a lot more awful people in the suburbs. I grew up in Maple Ridge, and to be honest the difference between there and nearly any neighbourhood in Vancouver is like night and day.

[Metro-One]

Well then how come you weren't rioting the other night????

I'm from maple ridge, as are many of my friends, and we are among the most respectful people you can find towards public space But I guess i should live up the burbs duty and go vandalizing when i get back from Europe, and do it downtown of course, because we are just so envious with jealousy!

I'm sorry, but i see plenty of home grown Vancouver assholes / anarchists downtown. In fact i have noticed a dramatic rise in the amount of graffiti just as skytrain nears boundary on the M-line, and then it gets really bad throughout the rest of its journey in Vancouver.

And really, is Joyce, Nanaimo or south Vancouver really feel any different than the burbs? Not to me, in fact many of them feel pretty ghetto with plenty of assholes living in them

or you know what, maybe it is this superiority complex displayed here coming from Vancouver that makes people in burbs dislike them. When i think of Vancouver's attitude the "smelling your own farts" episode of South Park always comes to mind...

[quobobo]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Well then how come you weren't rioting the other night????

Because I left Maple Ridge as soon as I could.

A large amount of the people I grew up with don't have much better to do than drink until they black out every weekend.

There are great people there (of course), but in my experience Maple Ridge has noticeably more drunk, violent, and rowdy people per capita than Vancouver or Burnaby. Maybe your experience has been different, but that really is what I've observed.

[WarrenC12]

There are some snapshots of craigslist around showing a ton of Louis Vitton and other looted merchandise for sale, location: Surrey.

I think Surrey has a larger demographic of the 16-25 year olds, which seem to be the majority of the people being caught and exposed.

On that note, I'm sure the hard-core anarchists are laughing harder, as the focus is taken away from them. They were rioting while covered up, and they don't have facebook and other social media where they are being outed by friends and associates.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Wow, just wow, i love this pass the bucket to the burbs bullshit on here.

Again, where is the lions share of our metro's population located? The burbs!

Each community generally has the same % of assholes

Do people on here really believe there is sudden massive cultural shift on the east side of Boundary, across the Fraser and the Inlet????

Do they really believe that these trivial borders really make any difference in attitude????

Again, just laugh out loud stupidity on here.

Honestly though, there seems to be more evidence to the contrary. It might just be inflated public opinion and run amok personal anecdotes, but until I see the list of the 100 arrested and where they are from, there will be no hard evidence to not go with public opinion.

I myself, can attest to how different it is be on a bus in Vancouver vs being on one in Surrey or Coquitlam (I've never been harassed for being "rich" for having a bag from the Banana Republic of all places on a bus in Vancouver). Even the difference between the last M-Line and Expo line trains on the weekend are like night and day.

Those are just my own personal anecdotes, and while I in no way meant that anywhere near the majority of suburban residents are bellow par, the 'burbs do seem to have more than their fair share of the bad apples that act out.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

Honestly though, there seems to be more evidence to the contrary. It might just be inflated public opinion and run amok personal anecdotes, but until I see the list of the 100 arrested and where they are from, there will be no hard evidence to not go with public opinion.

I myself, can attest to how different it is be on a bus in Vancouver vs being on one in Surrey or Coquitlam (I've never been harassed for being "rich" for having a bag from the Banana Republic of all places on a bus in Vancouver). Even the difference between the last M-Line and Expo line trains on the weekend are like night and day.

Those are just my own personal anecdotes, and while I in no way meant that anywhere near the majority of suburban residents are bellow par, the 'burbs do seem to have more than their fair share of the bad apples that act out.

Gotta agree...

And even the Canada Line crowd seems to be a bit different than the Expo and Millennium Line crowds.

[SpikePhanta]

^^ There is a great difference in the attitudes of people who take the expo line and Canada Line.

Could we also bring school rankings? Compare the scores of schools in Vancouver to those in the burbs.

[whalley13]

what about the "trailer trash" you see at main and hastings? what about the young punks housed in shelters in Vancouver????? They abstained from the riots???? They didn't burn Vancouver????? Snotty nosed Vancouverites...pleeeezzze.....dumb people come from all over

[someone123]

It's just tribalist BS -- people want a group of "others" to blame.

The guilty ones are the ones who caused damage. Even if they are all from Surrey, at the end of the day it doesn't matter.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by whalley13

what about the "trailer trash" you see at main and hastings? what about the young punks housed in shelters in Vancouver????? They abstained from the riots???? They didn't burn Vancouver????? Snotty nosed Vancouverites...pleeeezzze.....dumb people come from all over

The "trailer trash" at Main and Hastings or throughout the DTES for that matter are from all over the region, province, and even the rest of the country. We all knows this, don't kid yourself.

It's true that many Vancouverites from the city proper were involved, but I'm willing to bet that there were more participants as you go farther out.

[Whalleyboy]

Well I am certain most the numbers are from the burbs(all of them) in the riot it should be noted many americans and people from the interior came to dt. But i'm sure many people from from Vanocuver where in there too. In fact i have a good feeling the cities with the most will likely be surrey and Vancouver. but thats cause of population. But just throwing the blame away and not admiting you have a problem yourself is stupid.
It should also be noted a big number of people from the burbs also came dt and helped clean up the next day. But i dont see any thanks for that. By then its all just about Vancouver.

[Rusty Gull]

I do not think it's fair to "blame Surrey". No ways.

I have to call you out on this specifically, WhatNext. You've been going on and on in the forums about how the culprits are from Surrey, Delta, other suburbs, etc. I think you should be held accountable for your immaturity and hate-mongering - you're almost as sad as the rioters.

So far, I've seen a wealthy high school student from Maple Ridge and a kid from Burnaby come forward. But will you eat your words when someone from East Van comes forward?

[Pinion]

I don't know why it matters where they're from. And like it or not the majority considered themselves to be Canucks fans too.

There are people living among us that do horrible things every day. If you're a good person, their actions shouldn't shame you in any way.

And for the record, a lot of the rioters looked just like the people I went to high school with in upper-middle class North Van (upper Capilano area). I wouldn't be at all surprised if several are Handsworth students. I see the riots as more a sign of societal unhappiness and boredom than anything. People are miserable in general, and the recession compounds that.

[Rusty Gull]

Not that it's an accurate run-down of where the rioters are from, but a quick scan of one of the shaming websites shows the accused of being from, in no particular order, Terrace, Whistler, Langley, Vancouver. Considering that Surrey has nearly a quarter of the Metro Vancouver population, I'm willing to say that it was UNDER-REPRESENTED at the riot. I hope the final tally proves me right.

By the way, I have no special spot in my heart for Surrey, but I just can't stand ignorance. The people of Surrey deserve better than to have to have a few downtown or East Van elitists point the finger only at them.

[geoff's two cents]

These are purely speculative thoughts, but as a long-time Surrey resident and current downtowner I would imagine most of the rioters came from suburban areas around the GVRD, including the suburban parts of Vancouver - South Van, Point Grey/Kerrisdale, etc.

In my own metro Van experience (in Surrey, Langley, New West, Kerrisdale, and downtown), suburbs are usually thought of as "great for raising children/families", but they are also, imo, conducive to a feeling of general boredom with one's surroundings, a thirst for "big city" excitement, and a tendency to look for that in, say, binge drinking on the Granville strip as soon as one turns 19, or acting like a crazy person when one is intoxicated and in large crowds.

I once had eggs thrown at me from a group of 16-17 year-olds in their parents' BMW while walking in Kerrisdale. I've also had many unpleasant encounters with "undesirables" driving pickup trucks in Surrey and Langley. As a 17-year-old I once actually found myself in a car whose driver (from Langley) thought it would be fantastic to drive down Hastings and heckle prostitutes, which, then as now, I consider morally reprehensible behaviour. I've walked past people in the west end (who, given their style of dress were obviously not from any urban part of Vancouver), making very loud homophobic remarks. As a Surrey kid, I myself engaged in multiple (very minor) acts of public mischief which I most likely wouldn't have done if, say, I could have walked somewhere and done something more interesting with my time. Myself excluded, I'd say all of these types, very few of whom I ever see outside the Granville/Robson/First Beach (in the summer) parts of the city, are more or less potential rioters.

Add a dozen or so anarchist types from East Van to thousands of bored suburban youth and stir, imo.

I'd attribute all of these things to general boredom, relative isolation, and a relative inability to enjoy oneself in an intelligent, civilized fashion when one finds oneself in the "big city" at last. In the case of myself and those I know personally, I'd suggest it might also have something to do with car dependency and car culture. Riding the bus regularly at least conduces to a modicum of civility, respect for people around you, and an appreciation of public property. This is another reason why I wouldn't be at all surprised if many of the rioters came from well-heeled families.

That said, I certainly wouldn't paint everyone from the 'burbs with the same brush, and most car-dependent types are obviously not knuckle-draggers. After all, I'm from Surrey, drove most of the time when I lived there, and have never been the looting or setting-cars-on-fire type.