Canucks Central

[SpongeG]

even got a blimp on the American news and TV shows before wiener resigned

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[SpongeG]

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[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

That was a rather blunt statement. I appreciate the use of a video to try and back your statement up, but I just don't see any total proof as to who's participating and who's not. We can assume that the majority of people are standing around and are causing a problem, but we can NOT assume that EVERYONE who just HAPPENED to be in the area, whether they are actually taunting the police, standing around, or just trying to get past the scene to go do a very important errand that perhaps may not be missed, was a rioter, and should receive no sympathy. You provide a very bold but unfair and biased statement on the events and the people who, perhaps some, just happened to be there. The people standing around and watching, I can understand how such people or people participating by causing destructive damage, are most definitely adding to the problem. But really, you're willing to take it so far to blame people in the crowd who may not want to have any involvement whatsoever? That's very bold of you. Definnitely very.

In this crowd there may have been innocent people getting tear gassed, punched, strangled, some even trying to get out but cannot on time because there is simply little to no way to safely get through it in a quick manner. You seem to be basing mostly on assumptions; how bout go talk to some actual people who were in the riot, worried, and actually trying to get out of the situation, and you would perhaps understand. One of my friends took half an hour before reaching a Skytrain station. I was only able to get my warning message to her for an impending riot some minutes before the game was over, and I had been furiously warning about anyone I knew downtown about an impending riot; for the least part, most of the people I knew chose to left early, which is a good thing. However, once she got there, she had been punched 3 times, strangled twice, had some strands of hair ripped out, and would have otherwise been more tattered and there for even longer if a group of 50 policemen had not barged in and pulled her out of the mess. Until we can prove that there was a total lack of those innocent people in the city that were just unable to leave safely and timely (which I know we can't totally), we cannot assume that everyone is the bad guy, and I am going to show my sympathy full-on for those people, people that may additionally not even know what the riot act enforcement does to your rights based on location. We should consider that not everyone may have known about the riots; some people do not even watch hockey. There are also many people that actually LIVE downtown and are regularly out of their homes to take advantages of commercial & other services that happen to be there. You can't expect people who are possibly safely in their homes many levels above the ground action, to simply get up, go back down to the street level where it may be even more dangerous, and attempt to leave downtown as such.

@ Warren: I know who Jason Li is but I was talking about the guy who got the flashbang in the groin.

I undersatnd where you are coming from, but if it is after 9 PM and you're still there, you're obstructing justice and peace. The game ended at least an hour before that. 45 minutes the cup was presented. The less people there who were onlooking would help the police do more. Onlookers, while simply there to see what was going on, to police could be inciting the riot. Either way, if you hung around for hours afterwards - I don't have much sympathy for you. The hour previous when there were potential difficulties to get out - I can sympathize with.

[xd_1771]

Just saw something on CTV news about the city's after-riot cleanup effort, hosted online and supported by thousands (which, by the way, is DONE! The city is apparently now totally clean). Finally, something good on the news, not more of this riot bull.

Sources were a bit unclear during this riot, so we can't expect everyone to leave right away until there is full info about what's going on available. A friend of a friend had decided to stay in a Starbucks coffee on the south end of downtown for an hour to a couple of hours apparently, fearing completely going back outside. When she finally learned that there was a safe way to get out (it puzzles me even how it took this long for her to find out, to me the riot news was spreading like wildfire), she proceeded down the street to Yaletown-Roundhouse station and took the long way out of downtown.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

That was a rather blunt statement. I appreciate the use of a video to try and back your statement up, but I just don't see any total proof as to who's participating and who's not. We can assume that the majority of people are standing around and are causing a problem, but we can NOT assume that EVERYONE who just HAPPENED to be in the area, whether they are actually taunting the police, standing around, or just trying to get past the scene to go do a very important errand that perhaps may not be missed, was a rioter, and should receive no sympathy. You provide a very bold but unfair and biased statement on the events and the people who, perhaps some, just happened to be there. The people standing around and watching, I can understand how such people or people participating by causing destructive damage, are most definitely adding to the problem. But really, you're willing to take it so far to blame people in the crowd who may not want to have any involvement whatsoever? That's very bold of you. Definnitely very.

In this crowd there may have been innocent people getting tear gassed, punched, strangled, some even trying to get out but cannot on time because there is simply little to no way to safely get through it in a quick manner. You seem to be basing mostly on assumptions; how bout go talk to some actual people who were in the riot, worried, and actually trying to get out of the situation, and you would perhaps understand. One of my friends took half an hour before reaching a Skytrain station. I was only able to get my warning message to her for an impending riot some minutes before the game was over, and I had been furiously warning about anyone I knew downtown about an impending riot; for the least part, most of the people I knew chose to left early, which is a good thing. However, once she got there, she had been punched 3 times, strangled twice, had some strands of hair ripped out, and would have otherwise been more tattered and there for even longer if a group of 50 policemen had not barged in and pulled her out of the mess. Until we can prove that there was a total lack of those innocent people in the city that were just unable to leave safely and timely (which I know we can't totally), we cannot assume that everyone is the bad guy, and I am going to show my sympathy full-on for those people, people that may additionally not even know what the riot act enforcement does to your rights based on location. We should consider that not everyone may have known about the riots; some people do not even watch hockey. There are also many people that actually LIVE downtown and are regularly out of their homes to take advantages of commercial & other services that happen to be there. You can't expect people who are possibly safely in their homes many levels above the ground action, to simply get up, go back down to the street level where it may be even more dangerous, and attempt to leave downtown as such.

@ Warren: I know who Jason Li is but I was talking about the guy who got the flashbang in the groin.

I was just about to post the riot act, but Warren beat me to it. From what I've seen, it turns out they DID read the proclamation to the crowd assembled, so anyone arrested for any reason anywhere near there can be put in prison for life.

67. A person who is
(a) a justice, mayor or sheriff, or the lawful deputy of a mayor or sheriff,
(b) a warden or deputy warden of a prison, or
(c) the institutional head of a penitentiary, as those expressions are defined in subsection 2(1) of the Corrections and Conditional Release Act, or that person’s deputy,
who receives notice that, at any place within the jurisdiction of the person, twelve or more persons are unlawfully and riotously assembled together shall go to that place and, after approaching as near as is safe, if the person is satisfied that a riot is in progress, shall command silence and thereupon make or cause to be made in a loud voice a proclamation in the following words or to the like effect:
Her Majesty the Queen charges and commands all persons being assembled immediately to disperse and peaceably to depart to their habitations or to their lawful business on the pain of being guilty of an offence for which, on conviction, they may be sentenced to imprisonment for life. GOD SAVE THE QUEEN.

And it gets better.

Offences related to proclamation

68. Every one is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for life who
(a) opposes, hinders or assaults, wilfully and with force, a person who begins to make or is about to begin to make or is making the proclamation referred to in section 67 so that it is not made;
(b) does not peaceably disperse and depart from a place where the proclamation referred to in section 67 is made within thirty minutes after it is made; or
(c) does not depart from a place within thirty minutes when he has reasonable grounds to believe that the proclamation referred to in section 67 would have been made in that place if some person had not opposed, hindered or assaulted, wilfully and with force, a person who would have made it.

So in summation, anyone not dispersing is a rioter, and can go to jail for life.

JUST BEING THERE IS A CRIME.

By not going home or to work, you can go to jail for life.

Regarding force:

32. (1) Every peace officer is justified in using or in ordering the use of as much force as the peace officer believes, in good faith and on reasonable grounds,
(a) is necessary to suppress a riot; and
(b) is not excessive, having regard to the danger to be apprehended from the continuance of the riot.

33. (1) Where the proclamation referred to in section 67 has been made or an offence against paragraph 68(a) or (b) has been committed, it is the duty of a peace officer and of a person who is lawfully required by him to assist, to disperse or to arrest persons who do not comply with the proclamation.
Protection of officers

(2) No civil or criminal proceedings lie against a peace officer or a person who is lawfully required by a peace officer to assist him in respect of any death or injury that by reason of resistance is caused as a result of the performance by the peace officer or that person of a duty that is imposed by subsection (1).
Section not restrictive

(3) Nothing in this section limits or affects any powers, duties or functions that are conferred or imposed by this Act with respect to the suppression of riots.

And this means that any level of force (pretty much anything besides curb stomping someone in handcuffs) is allowed to keep the peace.

So getting nadded by a 'nade is totally cool with the law. Infact, after rolling around on the ground for a bit, he can end up in jail forever, no matter why he was there.

Keeping the peace is of paramount importance in our society, and people, for whatever reason, actively participating in the riot or not, when asked to disperse so order can be restored, don't, those people deserve no sympathy what so ever.

EDIT::

And if even if they didn't read the proclamation, anyone there can still be sentenced for up to 2 years for participating and police can do anything they want to suppress a "riot".

[giallo]

This sums up how I feel (and I imagine how a lot of you feel) perfectly







http://www.facebook.com/notes/morgan-brayton/dear-hooligans/10150211620676771

I am heartbroken and angry today after the destruction and violence of last night. Like many Vancouverites, I am embarrassed and ashamed of our city but it goes beyond that. This has really, really hit me deep and I think I have finally come to the heart of why.

Kudos to the organizers and participants of the volunteer clean-up efforts downtown today. Good for them for taking their energy and doing something productive with it, creating something positive for their fellow citizens. I found myself thinking, what can I do along those lines? What could I enlist my friends in that would turn this negative situation into something positive? And then I started to feel really, really angry. I didn't understand at first but then suddenly I realized why. Because I already do that. Every day. And so do the majority of people I know.

My community is made up of artists, organizers, parents, volunteers, teachers...people who take every single day as an opportunity to create something positive for our fellow citizens, to try to make the world a better place. The arts community alone has spent at least as much time lobbying and fighting to hold on to financial and public support for the arts as actually creating art these past couple of years. These are not people in it for the money (ha!), these are people who truly believe that what they do makes their communities and their world a better place for their fellow human beings. We also do this work in a city that often seems hell bent on proving that annoying nickname "No Fun City" is appropriate. How many times have you visited another city and marveled at their thriving cultural scene? Enjoyed not feeling like you were being babysat? Wished Vancouver would loosen up its by-laws and its archaic attitudes towards what is safe and fun for the public? Now how many times have you come back home and worked on doing something to make Vancouver "more fun"? If you are someone I know, your answer is probably "all the time"!

So when I sat watching a bunch of idiots deftly dismantle the efforts of people who work so hard to make this city a culturally vibrant place to be, my heart sank. And then it started to pound. I thought about the fireworks. I'm not personally a fan but I love anything that provides free, outdoor, family-friendly entertainment. You don't think that event's already tenuous support will be affected? I thought about the Rio Theatre. Many of us wrote letters and signed petitions in support of the Rio obtaining a liquor license so that they can bring in more revenue and expand the great entertainment programming they provide. You don't think new liquor license applications are going to be considered in a different light? As if they weren't ridiculously hard to get as it is! And, okay, if you don't care about the arts or family-friendly entertainment, what do you think is going to happen the next time a large scale sporting event is being considered for approval? Even if such public events do get approved, you can bet a requirement will be increased insurance, security, police presence. Who do you think pays for that? The hockey players who make millions of dollars? The advertisers and merchandisers who are rich off of our event-related purchasing? Fairies and fucking pixies? No! We do! Our tax dollars do! Tax dollars that could be spent on--stay with me here--EVENTS AND SUPPORT FOR OUR COMMUNITY! So, I feel nothing short of enraged that the jobs of people I love, who are already working their asses off, just got much harder because a bunch of idiots thought it would be fun to get drunk and fuck shit up.

Thanks. Thanks so very much, assholes.

People keep saying that the people responsible for the destruction and violence do not represent Vancouver. Well, guess what? They do now. Next time someone wants to hold a big outdoor celebration--they'll represent us. Next time someone applies for a liquor license--they'll represent us. Next time those of us who have viable ideas about how to make this No Fun City a city to be proud of--the jerks taking pictures of themselves in front of burning cars and looting stores will be speaking for us. And I for one really, really resent that.

Hey, hooligans! When was the last time one of you applied for a grant to support your arts festival? When was the last time one of you volunteered time equivalent to that of a second job to raise money for organization you care about? You have no idea, no clue whatsoever what goes into organizing even a small event at a local restaurant, let alone a giant event on the scale of something like what was put on FOR YOU yesterday.

Fuck you. Fuck you for your selfishness, your short-sightedness and your immaturity. But most of all, fuck you for spitting in the faces of all of us who love Vancouver and work so hard to make it a place we all--including you--want to be. And before anyone says, "Those were jerks from Surrey! They weren't Vancouverites!", it doesn't matter. This isn't about geography, this is about participating in humanity. Nihilism fueled by privilege is stupid. When you get offered great things by people working extremely hard to provide them to you--for free!--if you don't want them, stay home and punch yourself in the face if you hate yourself so much. Let those of us who care about someone other than ourselves enjoy the fruits of community participation. You certainly don't deserve it.

Am I being self-righteous? You bet your ass I am. As a caring, participating, hard-working citizen I am furious. Anyone who knows me will attest to the fact that I am always about getting to the root of a problem and trying to fix it, that I abhor criticism for the sake of criticism instead of discussion aimed at a more positive outcome. Not today. Today I am angry and heart-broken and exhausted. Today I am pointing fingers without solutions. Today I can't even wrap my head around how to come to some kind of positive next steps when last night my fellow citizens caused unjustifiable destruction or (just as horrifying in my opinion) stood by and cheered or just watched. As far as I'm concerned, if you didn't remove yourself from downtown when things turned ugly, let alone hours later, you are complicit.

I know that I'll move past this place and get back to helping build the community and the world I want to live in because that's what I am about at the core of my person. But I am well aware that, when I do, that work will be harder. Not because I care less, but because some ingrates made it so. I have lots of questions about what makes someone act that way, what is underneath behaviour like that and what can I do in my life to create a world where people don't feel compelled to act that way? But not today. Today I only have one question for those involved in the riots:

How dare you? Oh, and fuck you.

[jlousa]

Thanks for the support guys, the rioters where nothing compared to what was waiting for me from the wife when I got home. Just wish there were more Good Samartians in this city last night.
I couldn't stomach to watch the news or read any of the papers today, I did take pleasure in a email I received from the DVBIA regarding the volunteers actions today. Gave me some hope for society.

W/O placing blame on anyone, being in the middle of it I felt the police erred early on and weren't able to regain control. In reality the riot ran it's course and wasn't really stopped by police action. There was certainly confusion about a plan. They started by moving people west (east out of the core would've been better). Once pushed back a bit, they decided to push south at first, then they switched to north. (not sure which would've been better but definitely chose one). This created confusion as many people that did want to get out became disoriented and frustrated, adding extra emotions. There was also a lot of confusion about transit, most people at least at first thought Skytrain was stopped both in and out of the core.
I fully expect the city to study this thing over and over and implement a strong and efficient Riot plan which we will hopefully never need to us.

[SpongeG]

that pic that swept through twitter last night explained - the way the story spread and what happened is quite crazy how fast the ruumours spread - it was thought he was pushed off the viaduct, that he was lying there dead in the pic, that vancouver fans mobbed him and there was a police station on fire etc etc

cliffs note version - the guy in the jersey shoved someone outside the shark club and the security guard pushed the guy who fell down and knocked his head and was attended to but got up and just left on his own

full story:

http://www.globalnews.ca/What+happened+beaten+Bruins/4959557/story.html

[SpongeG]

more on the jason li saga from facebook:

Johnny Cy Huang: Lol cops came to my school to find him hahaha what a fucking reatrd.

seems he was found

and his facebook page had his phone number on it and it has been spread on facebook now

at one point he texted to his wall: trapped downtown having the time of my life

before that he texted: vpd is pathetic. not a single cop near main riot.

[SpongeG]

another dumb one


from facebook

[bigbadbrent]

Does anybody know if this nifty device (LRAD) that was purchased for the Olympics was deployed last night?? http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-co...e-accoustic-device-vancouver-police.html

I would think that would have been an effective way of dispersing/disabling the rioters last night as well as communicating to the crowds that they need to leave immediately.

Another thought as well, it seemed the amount of on-lookers with cell phones and cameras following these idiots around was impeding the VPD from effectively controlling the rioters. Use of a water cannon/fire hoses would have moved these "by-standers" out pretty quickly with the fear of water damage to their electronic gizmos (phones & cameras).

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by bigbadbrent

Does anybody know if this nifty device (LRAD) that was purchased for the Olympics was deployed last night?? http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-co...e-accoustic-device-vancouver-police.html

I would think that would have been an effective way of dispersing/disabling the rioters last night as well as communicating to the crowds that they need to leave immediately.

Another thought as well, it seemed the amount of on-lookers with cell phones and cameras following these idiots around was impeding the VPD from effectively controlling the rioters. Use of a water cannon/fire hoses would have moved these "by-standers" out pretty quickly with the fear of water damage to their electronic gizmos (phones & cameras).

Haha, great idea. They wouldn't even have to directly spray the crowd, just make it rain so they couldn't take pictures/videos and most people would have gone home for fear of losing the phone they bought with their 3 year contract.

[SpikePhanta]

Are water cannons allowed?

Anyways it is a bit sad to hear the bystander effect taking place but with people not intervening but participating by taking pictures and videos.

[xd_1771]

Sad may not actually be the word to use, I just realized. The photos and videos are apparently helping, because through them and social media we are now able to actually quickly identify who is rioting and apprehend them! We were never able to do it this easily and quickly in 1994.

Twist of the laws don't you think? The laws may definitely have to be changed to reflect such modern trends, which are apparently now helping with the aftermath & handling of the rioters.

[240glt]

^^ No sympathy whatsoever. If you were around when the first car got flipped upside down and torched you should have known things were turning bad and you should have gotten the fuck outa there. Doesn't seem to be the case though.. even though those "anarchists" were doing what they were doing, there appears to have been many complicit bystanders doing nothing but providing cover and preventing the perpetrators from being dealt with.

You should have known that the riot act was being read and that by hanging around you were complicit and equally as guilty as the ones committing the crime.

All the looky-loos did was inhibit the cops from doing their jobs. Shameful.

^ apologizing for bad behavior. That's what's sad. If the bystanders had left there would have been no riot, and it would have been easier for the cops to take care of the ones participating in the disorder. The E-generation appears more & more stupid all the time.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Sad may not actually be the word to use. The photos and videos are apparently helping, because through them and social media we are now able to actually quickly identify who is rioting and apprehend them! We were never able to do it this easily and quickly in 1994.

Twist of the laws don't you think? The laws may definitely have to be changed to reflect such modern trends, which are apparently now helping with the aftermath & handling of the rioters.

the funniest or best part is all the people tweeting and posting on their facebook pages what they did during the riot with all their personal contact information easily accessible

seems the riot made TMZ

• Video Link

[xd_1771]

I'm not trying to make any discussion about sympathy here anymore, what I'm saying is that there seems to be quite a turnaround effect from these crowds and their cellphone videos & such. We may be able to access all this evidence from multiple people. It's foolproof; with so many cameras on you at one time while you're smashing that car to pieces, there's no way you get away with it unapprehended, unless perhaps you have a mask to the face. Through their photos and videos, we are also able to identify and apprehend rioters as the public, there is another movement online with over 3000 supporters (last I checked) doing this right now.

People who take videos of their own crime (or get people to do it for them) and then post them online, that's definitely plain dumb though, and worthy of a standardized Jean-Luc Piccard facepalm on any account.

[SpongeG]

like this guy

[SpongeG]

[go_leafs_go02]

Honestly, I think a huge ball was dropped on continuing to have Skytrain come into town.

All the bridges were blocked minus the Lions Gate, and I've heard a few calls today from people who were there saying people kept flowing into downtown even with the Canucks down 3-0.

Downtown wasn't safe, and you could have easily prevented these morons from streaming in if skytrain wasn't running. Certainly keep it running to ensure people can get out - but certainly down town should have been locked down.

Either way, what's done is done. What a crazy last 24 hours and a bit...