Salt Lake Transit News Thread - Page 157

s.p.hansen · #**3121** Posted **Jun 10, 2011, 7:25 AM**

On a side note I would like to mention two impressions that came to me after reading articles about this horrible accident.

1. Gerry Carpenter, the PR guy for UTA, has to be one the most gentle souls I've ever seen in such a position; If I were a reporter, I would have a hard time grilling such a man. Beating up on this guy is like beating up an 8 year old.

2. From the KSL article, "Carpenter said trains in that corridor travel up to 65 mph and can sometimes appear farther away than they actually are." Holy 🞵🞵🞵🞵! 65 mph for TRAX trains in that corridor would be awesome!

RC14 · #**3122** Posted **Jun 10, 2011, 7:28 AM**

^
65MPH would be really cool, but I thought S-70s could only travel up to 55MPH.

Sight-Seer · #**3123** Posted **Jun 10, 2011, 1:29 PM**

This is a terrible accident. However, this is the kind of thing that forces companies to build fences and barriers everywhere. I hope UTA doesn't end up fencing the whole thing. That would be ugly, expensive, and mostly useless.

arkhitektor · #**3124** Posted **Jun 10, 2011, 5:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RC14

^
65MPH would be really cool, but I thought S-70s could only travel up to 55MPH.

From a sltrib.com article when testing began last month:

Quote:

The new trains will travel up to 65 miles an hour on parts of the new Mid-Jordan line. “The fastest they travel on the other lines is 55 mph,” Carpenter said. The new trains also have improvements in propulsion, motors and air conditioning.

joscar · #**3125** Posted **Jun 10, 2011, 6:43 PM**

edit

arkhitektor · #**3126** Posted **Jun 10, 2011, 7:22 PM**

This graphic from the Tribune makes what happened a little clearer:

After the first train passed, they thought it was safe to cross even though the lights and signals were still on and the gate was down. The sound wall blocked them from being able to see the other train approaching.

They clearly shouldn't have crossed until the arms went up and realized that it was unsafe even though there was no arm blocking the sidewalk on that side. Still- I could almost see myself doing the same thing if I was in a hurry. How tragic.

Many of the neighbors are calling for the line to be shut down until additional safety measures are installed. At the very least, I'd bet that UTA will be adding additional signage at the intersections that are blocked by sound walls like this.

scottharding · #**3127** Posted **Jun 10, 2011, 8:19 PM**

Yeah, this is just very unfortunate. A lot of people will be calling for UTA's head, but UTA has, of course, done everything that is legally required of them in terms of safety measures and construction codes. It is ironic (and sad) that the loop-hole was so tragically exposed while running test trains. No doubt UTA will do something to amend this oversight, but it sure doesn't help public perception.

SLCdude · #**3128** Posted **Jun 10, 2011, 9:14 PM**

I was down there earlier today surveying the stations for pedestrian safety signs and I saw a man in an orange vest at this intersection making sure people crossed the tracks safely.

SLC4L · #**3129** Posted **Jun 11, 2011, 10:18 AM**

It's kind of similar to the station just down the road on 4800 West. The entrance/exit to my neighborhood has a berm that practically hugs the road and makes it impossible to see if any trains are coming your way. It's not really an issue with me, but I get the feeling that at some point in time those arms aren't going to come down and somebody is gonna get hit.

Future Mayor · #**3130** Posted **Jun 11, 2011, 3:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLC4L

but I get the feeling that at some point in time those arms aren't going to come down and somebody is gonna get hit.

In Trax 10 + year history, I'm not sure I've heard of a signal arm malfunction, and I'm pretty sure that we would have heard about it because someone would have been killed and UTA would have been at fault. Yes this is tragic, but I don't see that UTA is to blame. Of the very few deaths caused by a Trax train, none have been ruled as UTA's fault, and I don't think this one is any different.

SLC Projects · #**3131** Posted **Jun 11, 2011, 3:38 PM**

After this I'm sure UTA will have to place arms on BOTH sides of the road.

SLC4L · #**3132** Posted **Jun 12, 2011, 2:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

In Trax 10 + year history, I'm not sure I've heard of a signal arm malfunction, and I'm pretty sure that we would have heard about it because someone would have been killed and UTA would have been at fault. Yes this is tragic, but I don't see that UTA is to blame. Of the very few deaths caused by a Trax train, none have been ruled as UTA's fault, and I don't think this one is any different.

Yeah, I'm not blaming UTA for this one. I guess I'm just a "murphy's law" kind of guy. It's extremely rare, but entirely possible.

Sight-Seer · #**3133** Posted **Jun 12, 2011, 4:21 AM**

I always thought they would stop the train if a gate failed to lower. They must have sensors to tell if a gate is up or down. I don't think they'd go zooming through.

i-215 · #**3134** Posted **Jun 12, 2011, 5:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

After this I'm sure UTA will have to place arms on BOTH sides of the road.

That goes against Federal Highway code. There really isn't much they can do, except put up warning signs.

H4vok · #**3135** Posted **Jun 12, 2011, 6:47 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by i-215

That goes against Federal Highway code. There really isn't much they can do, except put up warning signs.

I was thinking maybe they could put up one of those round mirrors in convenience stores that would see around the corner...it probably wouldn't last too long before somebody spray-painted it, broke it or stole it though.

Stenar · #**3136** Posted **Jun 12, 2011, 4:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by i-215

That goes against Federal Highway code. There really isn't much they can do, except put up warning signs.

They could put up some sort of smaller pedestrian gate that blocks the sidewalk there.

RC14 · #**3137** Posted **Jun 13, 2011, 12:53 AM**

Here are some pictures I took on Tuesday morning at the West Valley Central TRAX station. (If this works)

https://cid-f33206806cd81d4f.photos.live.com/self.aspx/.MobilePhotos/06.jpg
https://cid-f33206806cd81d4f.photos.live.com/self.aspx/.MobilePhotos/08.jpg

i-215 · #**3138** Posted **Jun 13, 2011, 2:55 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stenar

They could put up some sort of smaller pedestrian gate that blocks the sidewalk there.

The sad thing is, they won't do anything. It's the same trouble the L.A. Dodgers are having right now after that guy got beat near-to-death after a Giants game. If they put up extra lights and security cameras at Dodger's Stadium now, the plaintiff lawyer can argue the Dodgers are showing "guilt," that they knew everything wasn't up-to-snuff.

It creates a LESS safe environment, because a DOT or a transit agency will sometimes (on advice of their lawyers) delay putting in a safety improvement, to reduce the risk of losing it court.

s.p.hansen · #**3139** Posted **Jun 13, 2011, 6:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by i-215

The sad thing is, they won't do anything. It's the same trouble the L.A. Dodgers are having right now after that guy got beat near-to-death after a Giants game. If they put up extra lights and security cameras at Dodger's Stadium now, the plaintiff lawyer can argue the Dodgers are showing "guilt," that they knew everything wasn't up-to-snuff.

It creates a LESS safe environment, because a DOT or a transit agency will sometimes (on advice of their lawyers) delay putting in a safety improvement, to reduce the risk of losing it court.

Hey don't compare UTA to the Dodgers, ever! The reason that person was beat near-to-death after the game is because the family who owns the Dodgers was funneling money by the millions to family members and they spent less and less on the actual team. They cut security in order to give themselves even more cash. It's a huge scandal.

UTA just planned this one poorly by extending the sound wall too close to the crossing. It's going to be an easy fix by either removing a few panels in the sound wall or by creating some kind of pedestrian crossing gate. UTA despite its quirks is a well managed company. The Dodgers are a national embarrassment; MLB just recently took control over the Dodgers from the family who owned and exploited the team.

i-215 · #**3140** Posted **Jun 14, 2011, 4:10 AM**

Sorry. I by no means meant to say UTA and the Dodgers are peers.

Only mean to say that if a large agency or company fixes a problem immediately after an accident, a personal injury attorney will use that as evidence in a wrongful death suit. So, sometimes, a large agency or company will postpone repairs until after the threat of the lawsuit is over.

Metrolink (LA) did nothing after its horrible crash in 2009, until it conducted an "investigation," which took years. This way Metrolink's attorney can demonstrate, in some good faith, that the agency had no idea its track was dangerous or its employees were engaging in dangerous behavior (texting). They might have known 10 minutes after the crash happened, but the agency/company doesn't want to say or do anything which could convince a jury that the company/agency is at fault.

So, I don't expect UTA to change anything immediately. But I'm sure they will in the next 1-2 years after the situation has blown over.