Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Thus why I'm saying it is just a selfish non-big picture notion. It would be GREAT to pay no taxes on anything anywhere and get every service you could imagine but the real world doesn't work that way. The unfortunate issue is that BC did exempt bikes at one point of PST so people buying them got used to this fact. Now they're sad that it is gone.

Oh well.

Even if fuel tax increase bumped up prices by only 1% (which I think is extremely reasonable to expect), the family buying groceries in 1 year would pay an extra $78 which is still $8 more than the savings of Mr. Bicycle. In 2 years they pay double. In 3 triple. Multiply that by 100,000 families.

You now have a far greater economic impact than making Mr. Bicycle who is a vast minority unhappy.

I do see your point that people are selfish and don't look at the big picture. I sympathize with those that want a rebate on bicycles.

Although prices go up on many things when fuel goes up there is a flip side to that... prices of goods that have less transportation costs can be less affected. People switch to more efficient vehicles. I wonder if there were any studies done when the transit tax came into play. Or perhaps if there have been studies comparing countries with higher taxes on fuel.

There is a flip side to this... we can always give breaks on diesel fuel purchases to keep food prices lower. Food is FAR more affected by the price of diesel than petroleum. Over the short term, it will cause pain, however, over a longer term it has the potential to make a larger difference in people's behaviors and habits.


I just realized that we've strayed from the subject at hand...

IN thinking about the density plan for Cambie Plan only NOW coming to fruition after the line's built... is there a definite density plan built around the Evergreen Line? I know the whole thing is a bit in the air right now and things were put on hold... but what do people honestly feel about the density right now and in the future for this line?

How does it compare to the M-Line in 2002? in 2011?

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

IN thinking about the density plan for Cambie Plan only NOW coming to fruition after the line's built... is there a definite density plan built around the Evergreen Line? I know the whole thing is a bit in the air right now and things were put on hold... but what do people honestly feel about the density right now and in the future for this line?

How does it compare to the M-Line in 2002? in 2011?

I think you have to look at more than just density, but the impact on accessibility to transit. Of course building transit close to high density developments or building density around transit improves the accessibility to transit, but there is more at play in the North East Sector.

As far as existing density I believe there is lots, probably more than existed along the Millennium line when it was built. There are pockets of high density around planned stations at Burquitlam, IOCO, and Douglas, with more planned for the near term.

But like Millennium line, you have to look at the impact on the transit network. The M line connected North Burnaby, Lougheed and Western Coquitlam, shortening the ride into Downtown (and elsewhere) by upwards of an hour for many people, even people who live well outside the walking distance to a station.

The same situation exists in the Tri-Cities. The area is geographically isolated from the rest of the Metro Region. There are natural and artificial barriers to efficient transportation, like Burnaby Mountain and Johnston Hill on the West, Burrard inlet, the River to the South, and a slow moving grid of streets with no major boulevards to the SW, and the only way in or out is by very slow and clogged highways with traffic signals. Right now, just going from Coquitlam center to Lougheed (Skytrain) takes over 30 minutes on a direct route. If you live away from the 97B line, good luck getting around. Many trips just to get to Lougheed involve at least 1 or 2 bus transfers. And if you live further east, like Oxford Heights, it takes over an hour to get to Lougheed alone.

Evergreen line will cut most people's trips in half or more by providing an effective hub. That is providing effective transit to the whole sector, not just areas with density around the line. Bus lines can be shortened and their frequency increased, encouraging increased ridership. Even though the Evergreen line doesn't cover that much ground, it drastically cuts travel time to and from the sector and makes it truly part of the region.

The Canada Line's effectiveness extends beyond it's immediate density: riders ride across Vancouver to ride the trunk line into Downtown, bus lines from all over Richmond converge on the line, and suburban lines quickly feed riders from far away. The Evergreen line will have the same effect.

Yes, more buildings will get built around the line (which I think Coquitlam is much more geared towards than Vancouver) but the effectiveness of the line expands far beyond the Coquitlam center and Barnet highway.

[officedweller]

From the Now - property acquisition is progressing even if there hasn't been a big flashy construction start announcement.

Evergreen Line plans continue in Port Moody

By Jennifer McFee, Coquitlam NOW
May 25, 2011

PORT MOODY — Port Moody council agreed to sign a subdivision plan dedicating a small piece of land as a municipal road right-of-way for the Evergreen Line project.

According to a staff report, “As part of the Evergreen rapid transit project, certain properties are being acquired and dedicated as municipal road to meet the project requirements.”

One such area is a 2.5-square-metre triangular space behind the property at 3170 St. Johns St.

Development services director Tim Savoie said the Evergreen Line project staff is handling all communications with current land owners.

“The desire would be to widen Golden Spike Lane … however there is no agreement with the owner of the adjacent property,” Savoie told council Tuesday.

“So what they’re doing is they’re purchasing just that little triangle in advance to any further negotiations … with adjacent owners.”

The provincial land title office requires that the province notify the affected city of the road dedication, states the staff report. By signing the plan, Port Moody receives the lands as municipal road.

twitter.com/jennifermcfee


© Copyright (c) Coquitlam Now

Read more: http://www.thenownews.com/news/Evergreen...t+Moody/4839830/story.html#ixzz1Nb9CjuNM

[Zassk]

a 2.5-square-metre triangular space

Exciting times on the Evergreen Project.

[incognism]

Nothing that we don't know already, but in Vaughn Palmer's blog today:

The much-delayed Evergreen line has been delayed another year, with the province blaming the Translink mayors council for the hold-up.

Nor will the project go ahead without the region stepping up with its roughly one third share of the project budget.

So indicated Transportation Minister Blair Lekstrom during debate in the legislature Monday on the budget for his ministry.
Responding to questions from Harry Bains, transportation critic for the Opposition New Democratic Party, Lekstrom confirmed that the line would not be up and running before late 2015.

http://communities.canada.com/vancouvers...rom-blames-translink-mayors-council.aspx

[aberdeen5698]

"...with the province blaming the Translink mayors council for the hold-up."

I call BS. Last year after the mayors rejected using property taxes to pay for the line the province indicated that it was willing to sit down with them to look at potential alternative sources of revenue. That hasn't happened. It's the province that needs to step up to the plate and give Translink some more fund-raising flexibility.

[logan5]

Responding to questions from Harry Bains, transportation critic for the Opposition New Democratic Party, Lekstrom confirmed that the line would not be up and running before late 2015.

It sounds like the Evergreen Line should be complete around 2021 and the Broadway Line around 2026. Or maybe the plan is to delay Evergreen so that the Broadway Line gets built first. Who knows with these politicians?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

"...with the province blaming the Translink mayors council for the hold-up."

I call BS. Last year after the mayors rejected using property taxes to pay for the line the province indicated that it was willing to sit down with them to look at potential alternative sources of revenue. That hasn't happened. It's the province that needs to step up to the plate and give Translink some more fund-raising flexibility.

The province (more specifically the BC Liberals) have had bigger problems, like the HST and a new premier.

[Metro-One]

Well, I voted for them based on their "15 billion dollar" transit program, so now I really do feel like I was lied to. If the Evergreen isn't u/c by the next election, I really do feel I may be changing my vote.

I am tired of this —.

[GeeCee]

Can't we just tack a GVRD/Metro Van Transit levy onto our car insurance? Pay it when we renew? Is it that hard to figure out?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

Can't we just tack a GVRD/Metro Van Transit levy onto our car insurance? Pay it when we renew? Is it that hard to figure out?

LOL easy to figure out, hard to get re-elected after you do it.

[Millennium2002]

I doubt the Liberals want to play with the trigger button again on something that controversial... Which makes me wonder... if the Metro gov asks ICBC to do it instead, then does that circumvent the need for the Liberals to intervene? Or do they still have to amend the appropriate legislation?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The province (more specifically the BC Liberals) have had bigger problems, like the HST and a new premier.

Of course. But they're just trying to pull the wool over our eyes by pinning the blame on the municipalities now. They're trying to divert attention from the fact that they were to have made the next move.

[racc]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

I doubt the Liberals want to play with the trigger button again on something that controversial... Which makes me wonder... if the Metro gov asks ICBC to do it instead, then does that circumvent the need for the Liberals to intervene? Or do they still have to amend the appropriate legislation?

Pretty sure the provincial needs to do something to enable collection of a vehicle levy. Even if they don't, people who don't like it would quickly figure out they could complain to the province. Just look at the flap over ICBC's recent proposal to increase rates for dangerous drivers. It took about an hour for both the government and the opposition to back down.

Anyway, never hurts to write the premier and get her to just get on with it.
[email protected]

[mezzanine]

politically this makes a lot of sense though, if the libs tried to set up an entirely new levy system, they would create a huge kick-me sign that they can put next to the HST on their backs (and i say this as a supporter of both).

With all the money Victoria is giving out now to appease the electorate, I am unsure if they would want to spare any money from the carbon tax just for transit capital projects.

This also puts pressure on the mayors - if they want the EG line done promptly, they need to pass the prop-tax increase. That would be the best possible solution for victoria right now - the orignial plan, with the least amount of controversy for the ProvGovt.

[Gordon]

The problem with Translink collecting the levy it's s elf is that they need a vehicle that will require everyone to pay, ahving it collectedas part of your car insurance would make it a required payment.

If Translink had been able to build The Evergreen line as LRT as they had planned would it have been built by now or would we still be waiting?

[Metro-One]

Still waiting, because the LRT cost ballooned to 1.2 billion because of the grades requiting tunnels and the elevated portion required to meet Lougheed Town Station.

so we would still be out 200 million in that case.

skytrain for this line only costs about 15% more, and in return we get a streamline connection, use of existing vehicles / OMC, a travel time only half that of the LRT, complete grade separation (enhancing safety), shorter headways, etc...

This is getting rediculous, I feel more than half the blame goes to the mayors this time, and most of the remaining to the province. If they only allowed Translink to initiate the property tax (which was proposed as a temporary measure to get this projects, and others, underway while the mayors, Translink and the province searched for a better solution) then we would not be in this mess.

I really hope that the mayors south of the river and elsewhere understand that the longer the Evergreen is delayed, the longer that the Surrey mass transit expansions and Broadway line will be delayed.

Again, boourns on the province and their smoke and mirrors 15 billion dollar transit plan. What a political stunt, here, this is what we are proposing, now, can someone else pay for it and organize it?

As I said before i can make empty promises as well, in fact today I am announcing Metro-Ones 20 billion dollar HSR project to connect the Okanagan to Vancouver Island, I sure hope the media picks it up so i can stand in front of a shiny background of a picture of an HSR train, get elected and then hope everyone forgets about it after it becomes apparent I can not deliver!!!!!

I am really, really pissed.

[geoff's two cents]

I share the frustration, but still think personally that some form of region-wide tolling would make the most sense long-term. Given that the bulk of the Lower Mainland population (especially Surrey, Langley, Vancouver and Port Moody) wants better transit but doesn't want to have to raise property taxes, what about putting the issue to a referendum vote? - Perhaps alongside the HST? Some sort of deal would of course have to be inked beforehand providing each city in the Metro with some sort of a timeline for expected transit improvements, whether that be in the form of Skytrains, buses, LRTs or gondolas.

Sample:

1) Do you support the HST?

2) Translink is broke. Please rank the following potential sources of revenue in order of preference (1 being most preferred, 5 being least):

a) We don't need transit improvements
b) Region-wide property tax increase
c) ICBC vehicle registration levy
d) Tolling of all inter-municipal bridges and tunnels (excluding, for example, the Queensborough bridge)
e) Tolling of all inter-municipal bridges and tunnels, as well as tolling of all regional expressways (highway 1, 91, 99)

The way I see it, the political will to impose anything on the electorate is so weak at this point with a rising provincial NDP, and the potential impact on the entire region's infrastructure and ways of life so great, I don't see any way out of this impasse except by neutralizing the issue politically through a referendum.

It would be something a win-win scenario for the politicians: If people preferred property tax increases, the mayors wouldn't have much choice; if they preferred some form of regional tolling or an ICBC surcharge, the provincial politicians wouldn't have much choice.

(Of course, the fact that Maple Ridgers and Langleyites already pay a toll to visit one another, and the fact that the new Port Mann will be tolled, might - ironically - prejudice certain car-dependant municipalities south of the Fraser in favor of everyone else having to do likewise. Just a thought).

[wrenegade]

I know this probably isn't a popular idea (here or elsewhere) but how about making transit users pay more? Yes yes, I know many will feel like it's too expensive already, but it's been over 3 years since the last fare hike (January 1st, 2008) and gas prices are quite a bit more expensive than they were then. What portion of Translink's costs is eaten by petrol/diesel costs? It has to be one of the largest after salary. How about increasing fares by a quarter, or 50 cents, or by some number in conjunction with a smaller increase in property taxes or something.

Any solution is likely to be unpopular, how about small increases across the board? Everyone should contribute equally, it doesn't make sense to make homeowners and car owners to shoulder all of the increase themselves. It's not very fair, and it definitely isn't a vote-getter.

edit: Personally I'd like to re-open re-examine the contracts with the union and slash some of the benefits transit workers get. I'd also freeze wages. The number of holidays and bankable sick days they receive is disgusting (although somewhat in line with other public sector unions, all of which are disgusting), and I think they are overpaid, but I would stop short of cutting wages. Obviously all of this (or any for that matter) would be extremely unpopular, but the whole system is broken, something drastic needs to change.

And before people start bringing up politicians wages, or executives of BC Ferrys or any of that, I think they're all overpaid and have far too many benefits. I'd cut compensation packages for all public sector (and subsidized private sector) employees. Oh, and let CUPW rot. I may have digressed here a bit...

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by awvan

edit: Personally I'd like to re-open re-examine the contracts with the union and slash some of the benefits transit workers get. I'd also freeze wages.

I'd cut compensation packages for all public sector (and subsidized private sector) employees. Oh, and let CUPW rot. I may have digressed here a bit...

No time to do a comparison online to other canadian jurisdictions, but IMO i think we have a nice balance here with CMBC labour issues.

As opposed to the TTC which has horrific labour/management/customer issues...


Source: national post