Canadian Retail Thread

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

thats not true - zellers employees will all be laid off they won't simply become target employees - they may keep some but usually when this happens they lay everyone off and hire all new people and zellers employees would need to apply to work at at target

its not all lose lose - zellers is crap and we are getting a better store

It is funny how people just assume American stores are better.

You say Zellers is crap. Yet Target sells the exact same stuff. It is not like Target has this entire different merchandise selection, etc.

I was just in the USA last week and actually went into the mall that all the Canadians flock to in Buffalo. Canadian's always say the prices are cheaper than back home in Canada.
Yet all the clothing I looked at had the exact same prices as the stores in Canada. Yet people keep going there from Canada thinking they are getting a deal. Not to mention that there were hardly any stores you can't find in Canada anymore. So it made the idea of going shopping in the USA less interesting.
Thank goodness there is a nice unique urban shopping strip in Buffalo where you can actually get unique and different things.

[habfanman]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

thats not true - zellers employees will all be laid off they won't simply become target employees - they may keep some but usually when this happens they lay everyone off and hire all new people and zellers employees would need to apply to work at at target

its not all lose lose - zellers is crap and we are getting a better store

My point is, there will only be job losses and mostly the best jobs. That the job loss process is even more tragic for those employees on the bottom rungs makes it even less of a cause for celebration.

Better store? WTF? If you didn't shop at Zellers in the first place then whatever cheap Chinese made disposable crap you buy at Target will be at the expense of whatever other store you're accustomed to buying your cheap Chinese made disposable crap at. It's all the same shit, just a different shelf. Even the most fucked up shopping addicted crapaholic only has so much disposable income to waste. A new 'better store' doesn't generate more disposable income. In this case, it actually reduces the amount of local disposable income.

The net result is still: no new minimum wage jobs (probably fewer), loss of almost all high level positions and tertiary jobs, and profits being funneled to Minneapolis instead of here.

LOSE-LOSE-LOSE

[Ramako]

Originally Posted by habfanman

There won't be any job creation. Zellers employees will simply become Target employees (and probably lose whatever minimal longevity benefits they had accrued in the process). Not only that but most accounting, legal, advertising, supply etc. will now be handled from Minneapolis resulting in the loss of all of those local jobs as well.

I'd think that legal and advertising would still be handled locally as they'd probably need Canadian corporate lawyers to handle Canadian legal issues, and Canadian advertising firms who know how best to appeal to Canadian buyers.

[habfanman]

Originally Posted by Ramako

I'd think that legal and advertising would still be handled locally as they'd probably need Canadian corporate lawyers to handle Canadian legal issues, and Canadian advertising firms who know how best to appeal to Canadian buyers.

They'll hire Canadian lawyers, but only to advise head office on local matters. They'll also hire some butt licker president of Target (Canada) ltd. When Minneapolis calls, he'll jump.

I doubt they'll need a Canadian advertising firm. They've done 0 Canadian advertising thus far yet Canadians, for reasons that I fail to comprehend, seem rather anxious to buy their cheap Chinese made crap there. Their American ads seem to be working just fine. (plus all the free advertising they're getting in the 'business' media)

If Canadians know best how to appeal to Canadian buyers then why are there hardly any Canadian stores left? Probably for the same reason that Canadian firms call themselves 'Boston Pizza' and 'New York Fries'.

[Pavlov]

I'm loathe to admit it but I think I'm with habfanman on this one.

[kool maudit]

target really is better than zellers. it's a lot better.

that said, target canada will not be target u.s.a.

canada will never be as good at retail as the u.s.

nobody is. i mean, yeah, local stores etc., sure -- that's a thing -- but every year i make sure to buy clothing, shoes, tech stuff in the single two week period i spend in california. the variety and pricing in montreal is almost insulting by comparison.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by habfanman

If Canadians know best how to appeal to Canadian buyers then why are there hardly any Canadian stores left?

I don't know, you tell me. Go visit The Bay sometime and shop for Men's clothing (or other stuff, it all applies). Then go visit the US equivalent, Macy's. Light-years of difference. Too many Canadian retailers are complacent and assume their lock on the market will last forever. Your average Bay store is poorly lit, full of cranky employees, not the cleanest, and has shitty selection. There's a reason Eaton's went bankrupt and HBC is next.

Zellers vs Target is the exact same thing. Zellers stores are, to be blunt, fucking depressing to shop in. They make me feel like I'm walking through the trailer park. Granted - Target has a lot of the same stuff but they at least clean the aisles from time to time, repair the cracked flooring, and somehow manage to not have the store smell like B.O. or worse.

However, I suspect you hate all of these stores anyway, so you're pretty much missing the point entirely. Rant about chain stores and large conglomerates, I'll agree for the most part. It's all just cheap Chinese shit no matter where you shop (30 years ago it was all cheap Japanese shit, by the way - 30 years from now it will be cheap African shit). But any given US store is generally 10x better than its Canadian equivalent, at least when it comes to mass-market retail. There's a reason they're all moving up here and owning the marketplace when they do.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

nobody is. i mean, yeah, local stores etc., sure -- that's a thing -- but every year i make sure to buy clothing, shoes, tech stuff in the single two week period i spend in california. the variety and pricing in montreal is almost insulting by comparison.

Same. I own very few articles of clothing purchased in Canada anymore. It's disgusting how much more expensive stuff tends to be here. Unless it's local stuff obviously. But the same shitty mass-produced shirt and shoes? Thanks, I'll save the 20-50% and get it down south, thank you. The people who don't see any savings in the US really have no idea how to shop, or maybe only buy stuff at Wal-Mart.

It doesn't help that Calgary-area retailers only finally started having "sales" when the recession was at its peak, and have once again pretty much stopped. Hooray for full price all the time!

[SpongeG]

target has collections by designers I happen to like John Derian, Michael Graves, Mulberry, Isaac Mizrahi, Rachel Ashwell and always adding some great collaboration collections

they sell Mrs Meyers the whole range, laundry soap, dryer sheets, cleaners etc etc not just the handsoap or dishwashing soap - which is very hard to find in Canada - at least in Vancouver I only know of one store that carries it and its a very long trip to get it

what does zellers have? alfred sung?

hopefuly target Canada will carry them and not give Canada a watered down version like usually happens - visited the new anthropolgie store here last week and it was okay but lacked something the USA stores have and the prices were quite a bit higher which pissed off my friend but they weren't too bad $4 in USA $6 here

[habfanman]

Jeesus, how much 'stuff' do you guys feel the need to buy? I only buy things if I need them. If I need a shirt, there are probably several hundred thousand different shirts available in Montréal. Same goes for pants. Unless there are some new style pants with built in weenie-warmers or something that are only available in the U.S.? Do you look at 500,000 shirts and say "No. This simply won't do. I need access to over 1 million."? If I need a computer peripheral or camera gear, I go to my computer or camera guy. I'd sooner pay them a couple of extra bucks than waste my time going cross border shopping and dealing with some pimple-faced 'Geek Squad' punk. My camera store has been in business for over 80 years. His prices are the same or lower than Future Shop or Best Buy and I know exactly where my money is going.

If I happen to be somewhere and I see something cool then fine. Different places have different styles. I just bought a couple of shirts in Berlin and some sandals and shorts in Amsterdam, but it was more because I needed warm weather stuff than simply "Ooooh I have to buy something or I'm just going to explode!!" I was in Dallas a few months ago- I didn't need anything, I didn't buy anything. If I had bought a shirt that I didn't need simply because it was 25$ there instead of 40$ in Montréal I wouldn't have been saving 15$, I'd have been wasting 25$.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by habfanman

My point is, there will only be job losses and mostly the best jobs. That the job loss process is even more tragic for those employees on the bottom rungs makes it even less of a cause for celebration.

Better store? WTF? If you didn't shop at Zellers in the first place then whatever cheap Chinese made disposable crap you buy at Target will be at the expense of whatever other store you're accustomed to buying your cheap Chinese made disposable crap at. It's all the same shit, just a different shelf. Even the most fucked up shopping addicted crapaholic only has so much disposable income to waste. A new 'better store' doesn't generate more disposable income. In this case, it actually reduces the amount of local disposable income.

The net result is still: no new minimum wage jobs (probably fewer), loss of almost all high level positions and tertiary jobs, and profits being funneled to Minneapolis instead of here.

LOSE-LOSE-LOSE

whatever - i prefer not to have dodge boxes and piles just thrown on tables or left in aisles - for most of the stuff I need i get it at Real Canadian superstore anyway

again I don't see the problem with offering consumers a CHOICE where they can shop

Zellers hasn't been Canadian for many years now so its no loss to target

target will be setting up a corporate head office in Ontario and will have to hire canadians

so what if their profits go to the mother cirp in the USA - were you gonna benefit from them? do you benefit from Aldo's profits?

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by habfanman

Jeesus, how much 'stuff' do you guys feel the need to buy? I only buy things if I need them. If I need a shirt, there are probably several hundred thousand different shirts available in Montréal. Same goes for pants. Unless there are some new style pants with built in weenie-warmers or something that are only available in the U.S.? Do you look at 500,000 shirts and say "No. This simply won't do. I need access to over 1 million."? If I need a computer peripheral or camera gear, I go to my computer or camera guy. I'd sooner pay them a couple of extra bucks than waste my time going cross border shopping and dealing with some pimple-faced 'Geek Squad' punk. My camera store has been in business for over 80 years. His prices are the same or lower than Future Shop or Best Buy and I know exactly where my money is going.

If I happen to be somewhere and I see something cool then fine. Different places have different styles. I just bought a couple of shirts in Berlin and some sandals and shorts in Amsterdam, but it was more because I needed warm weather stuff than simply "Ooooh I have to buy something or I'm just going to explode!!" I was in Dallas a few months ago- I didn't need anything, I didn't buy anything. If I had bought a shirt that I didn't need simply because it was 25$ there instead of 40$ in Montréal I wouldn't have been saving 15$, I'd have been wasting 25$.

I don't shop that often but when i do i like certain products i like mrs meyers soap or method soap - thats an essential everyday used item

so its not accumilating stuff its everyday living things that I buy and need - i don't live on dust

I shop at just as many local "canadian" stores too but its nice to be able to get the stuff that previously was very hard to buy in Canada

if more Canadian stores carried the brands I wanted than I would buy them there but they don't - so its their loss

for the record i've often bought clothes at zellers I'm not that fussy as long as it fits and its cheap i wear it

[habfanman]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

target has collections by designers I happen to like John Derian, Michael Graves, Mulberry, Isaac Mizrahi, Rachel Ashwell and always adding some great collaboration collections

they sell Mrs Meyers the whole range, laundry soap, dryer sheets, cleaners etc etc not just the handsoap or dishwashing soap - which is very hard to find in Canada - at least in Vancouver I only know of one store that carries it and its a very long trip to get it

what does zellers have? alfred sung?

hopefuly target Canada will carry them and not give Canada a watered down version like usually happens - visited the new anthropolgie store here last week and it was okay but lacked something the USA stores have and the prices were quite a bit higher which pissed off my friend but they weren't too bad $4 in USA $6 here

So you've been running around naked because you just can't access these great 'collections'? (and they must be great if they're available at Target lol!)

And Mrs. Meyers??? The 1000 varieties of soap etc. currently available just not enough for you? Just gotta have that Mrs. Meyers eh? (Until Mr. Washy is introduced to the market and only available at the next, must shop at store. I'm sure you'll tire of Target about 7 hours after it opens)

I'm sure your quality of life will improve immeasurably once you've washed your Rachel Ashwells in your Mrs. Meyers!

[kool maudit]

it is in no way aberrant, weird or indicative of some hoarder-like personal problem to prefer retail locations where there is more selection and lower prices.

i mean, i go to california to see my family -- i wouldn't fly to los angeles in order to buy a pair of shoes. while down there, though, it's easy to notice that the $350 oxfords you saw back home are $85 at dsk.

people work hard, consumerist/materialist/running dog mcsociety or not.

[kool maudit]

so now it is bizarre and grotesque and worthy of mockery to prefer certain consumer products over others?

i fear we're entering one of these areas in which you have unreasonably strong opinions about fairly open-ended and subjective subjects.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by habfanman

So you've been running around naked because you just can't access these great 'collections'? (and they must be great if they're available at Target lol!)

And Mrs. Meyers??? The 1000 varieties of soap etc. currently available just not enough for you? Just gotta have that Mrs. Meyers eh? (Until Mr. Washy is introduced to the market and only available at the next, must shop at store. I'm sure you'll tire of Target about 7 hours after it opens)

I'm sure your quality of life will improve immeasurably once you've washed your Rachel Ashwells in your Mrs. Meyers!

it is - i like it when my hands smell pretty

is that so wrong? who made you oprah?

btw the collections i mentioned are not fashion they are home collections - how can you not even know who michael graves is?? this is a skyscraper forum after all lol

[habfanman]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

it is in no way aberrant, weird or indicative of some hoarder-like personal problem to prefer retail locations where there is more selection and lower prices.

people work hard, consumerist/materialist/running dog mcsociety or not.

I'm not saying that kool and you know it. Of course everybody likes lower prices and more selection. What I'm saying is this: let's take a look at the cost associated with having that lower price tag and bigger selection. Is it ultimately worthwhile? Prices vary everywhere so that is difficult to compare but to people from just about anywhere else in the world, Canada has a massive selection of products. Problem is, we compare ourselves to the U.S., the most over-retailed nation the world has ever seen. Suddenly there's a perception that our selection of 500,000 different shirts just doesn't cut it and we've been sold on the idea that we need 1,000,000 different shirts.

I lived in Houston for a year and pretty much everything is dirt cheap there. The costs associated with those low prices? Half the city looks like the North American version of Lagos. No sidewalks. Virtually no public transit. Few parks. No-go zones at night all over the city. Garbage lining the freeways. Affluent people living behind bars and gates. Most of the guys I worked with had no health coverage. You HAD to own a car or you might as well have killed yourself. I was told that I should drive to the store only two blocks away because nobody could conceive of anyone walking two blocks, and the store was robbed twice in the year that I was there despite the fact that they had bars in the window, buzzer entry, and the cashier was behind an enclosed plexiglass-screened counter.

But the taxes were low, the prices were rock bottom, and what a selection!

That is what will happen to us here eventually if we keep trading jobs and handing over control of everything to bottom-liners whose only concern is maximum profit and minimum outlay. It'll be tough in the future to explain to people that we traded everything for increased access to Mrs. Meyers soap (wtf?) and cheap Oxfords. Someone, somewhere is paying for those cheap Oxfords.

[habfanman]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

it is - i like it when my hands smell pretty

is that so wrong? who made you oprah?

btw the collections i mentioned are not fashion they are home collections - how can you not even know who michael graves is?? this is a skyscraper forum after all lol

Home collections? lol How exclusive! Aren't you afraid of having the same 'collection' as all of your friends?

When it comes to furniture, I'm more interested in comfort and whether it all works together than the 'name' attached to it.

Michael Graves sucks, but then he hawks 'home collections' in discount stores so..

[habfanman]

Originally Posted by freeweed

I don't know, you tell me. Go visit The Bay sometime and shop for Men's clothing (or other stuff, it all applies).

But The Bay is now owned by Lord and Taylor. American. Woooo.. That should change your perception a bit. Maybe they're not so bad after all? Maybe it's safe to shop there and be properly marketed to now!

[habfanman]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

target will be setting up a corporate head office in Ontario and will have to hire canadians

so what if their profits go to the mother cirp in the USA - were you gonna benefit from them? do you benefit from Aldo's profits?

It'll be a branch plant office with minimal jobs.

That last bit is too ridiculous to warrant a proper response.