General Updates and News

[cormiermax]

Would the council be able to stop such a suburban location to be built in an urban area? This would be horrible for the area and in no way should it be built, It would totally ruin the area and would be even worse than parking lots because it would take far longer to develop.

[Northend Guy]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

As much as I would like to see an urban format store on Queen St., and as much as I'd like to be an optimist, Sobeys is not going that direction any time soon.

We're not talking about an innovative developer, whose marketing strategy is to position themselves on the leading edge. This is Sobeys.

I have to agree. I think that in all likelihood Sobey's will stick to what they know. Not to say that I think that the urban grocery is a bad idea.

I was just thinking that we will have an example of an urban grocery of sorts once CCA is built. (Pete's) My understanding is that City Center is basically leasing the roof of it's building to Dexel for something like 50 years (don't quote that) to do whatever they want with it. Thus the apartments. Basically, as I understand it, City Center bears little responsibility as a landlord, as far as general maintenance, etc. are concerned. I suppose if Sobeys were to have such a relationship with a developer, that would be a good way to mitigate landlord responsibility. Put the infrastructure in place to put something above the store, and then find a developer to make use of the space.

[coolmillion]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

This story (below) was in the metronews. I am not convinced that these groups are against urban sprawl. Some of the people involved have helped to limit growth on the peninsula and they now seem to be targeting the suburbs. In my opinion, they are just against growth.


Does Jennifer Watts really want more dense development in her district?

There is the other fact - if the municipality wants more industrial jobs then these plants will have to be built outside of the city core in the industrial parks; shouldn't homes be built close to these parks so that workers won't have to travel as far?

Does anyone know of this "alliance's" definition of urban sprawl; what is considered to be their boundary of urban growth? One question with an urban greenbelt - if the HRM sees phenomenal growth and prosperity then can a greenbelt be opened up in the future for growth.

Jennifer Watts isn't mentioned here, although I imagine she would support this effort. I don't think she would be adverse to small-scale infill development on commercial streets in her district but I'm unaware of any specific examples.

It appears that the Alliance formed in order to participate in the review of the regional planning strategy. Because it draws on wide interests (business, environment and health, including groups based in the suburbs), I think it is unfair to say that this effort is about preventing growth. It is more about fostering sustainable growth, both in the urban core and the periphery. There is a website with more information: www.ourhrmalliance.ca

Urban growth boundaries or greenbelts can very effective and they are generally not static but may be moved and altered if the need arises. Portland Oregon's boundary was created in the late 70s, mandated by state law, and has been changed many times to meet new needs.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by coolmillion

Jennifer Watts isn't mentioned here, although I imagine she would support this effort. I don't think she would be adverse to small-scale infill development on commercial streets in her district but I'm unaware of any specific examples.

It appears that the Alliance formed in order to participate in the review of the regional planning strategy. Because it draws on wide interests (business, environment and health, including groups based in the suburbs), I think it is unfair to say that this effort is about preventing growth. It is more about fostering sustainable growth, both in the urban core and the periphery. There is a website with more information: www.ourhrmalliance.ca

Urban growth boundaries or greenbelts can very effective and they are generally not static but may be moved and altered if the need arises. Portland Oregon's boundary was created in the late 70s, mandated by state law, and has been changed many times to meet new needs.

Thanks for the information - this is more informative than the story that I posted. Jennifer Watts was shown in a picture in the full story and a quote was provided by her that I didn't include - http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/local/article/871460--an-alliance-against-sprawl

[halifaxboyns]

New group to lobby against urban sprawl

By PAT LEE Staff Reporter
Thu, May 26 - 4:55 AM
A new alliance has been formed to try to rein in urban sprawl in Halifax Regional Municipality.

The various organizations, with ties to business, the environment or health, have joined forces as the region’s 25-year planning strategy comes up for a mandated five-year review.

Mark Butler of the Ecology Action Centre, which is spearheading the lobbying effort, said the groups that have signed on are concerned about dying downtowns, threatened natural environments and the health of a citizenry tied to driving.

"They love this town and think it could be better, and think we could do better," Butler said of the groups. "That’s the big impetus for creating the alliance. I think things have deteriorated to the point where it’s pretty obvious that something needs to change or happen to counteract the prevailing trend."

The alliance plans to insert itself into the municipality’s review plans, which have not yet been laid out, he said.

"We really hope the alliance is going to take a key role in affecting change."

So far, 17 groups have joined the alliance. Representatives from six of those organizations will form a steering committee to guide their efforts. They are the Ecology Action Centre, the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Nova Scotia, the St. Margaret’s Bay Stewardship Association, the Sackville Rivers Association, the Downtown Halifax Business Commission and Five Bridges Wilderness Heritage Trust.

Members of Our HRM Alliance said they will press the municipality to create a greenbelt around the city, foster a series of vibrant business centres to counteract the proliferation of industrial parks and provide a more robust public transit system.

Paul MacKinnon of the business commission said the alliance is not opposed to development or pitting the downtown against the suburbs.

But MacKinnon said the groups want to ensure municipal growth is sustainable far into the future and meets the needs of individual communities.

"What we’re talking about is new growth. We’re not talking about bulldozing Dartmouth Crossing or taking away existing suburban development. What we’re talking about is the growth we know is going to occur over the next 10, 20 or 30 years."

Geoff Le Boutillier, founder of the St. Margarets Bay-area association, said rampant development is ruining the ecosystem in his community and elsewhere.

"The environment has changed so radically and a lot of that has been caused by the huge sprawl that we see in Tantallon," Le Boutillier said.

"The model that we’re following is crazy and we have to find something to control that."

He said the alliance will actively review the long-range regional plan, "tweaking it and fixing it and making sure that the principles that that plan was built upon will actually be realized in the next 20 years."

Walter Regan, the longtime president of the Sackville Rivers Association, said it is time to off-load more of the costs of building the infrastructure for urban growth from taxpayers to developers.

"Development is not paying its way. We’re subsidizing these new developments and we shouldn’t."

[johnny_boy]

The Sobey's locations in downtown Toronto are very upscale, urban and trendy. They're located near very high income condos usually. Sobey's in Toronto definitely does not have the same brand perception as it does in Nova Scotia. The stores have a lot of dark colours and organic produce (think more along the lines of Pete's). I can't find any pics of the ones in Toronto, but here is one that opened in Edmonton (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2296/2507047689_868faa50ed.jpg) which gives you a good idea of the downtown feel they go for in other markets. They could easily build it in Halifax, however I think it's clear that despite being the same brand, the image of Sobey's in Halifax is not the image of Sobey's elsewhere.

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by someone123

Sobeys has many urban-format stores in other parts of the country (Toronto, Edmonton).

Mixed-use grocery store buildings with residential above are built more frequently now in Vancouver and its inner suburbs (Dartmouth proper and Clayton Park equivalents) than the standalone style. I live in a suburban area and shop at a grocery store with underground parking and 30-40 storey condos above. Halifax is very far behind the times.

I would love to see the old Sobeys replaced with a new building with underground parking and whatever scale of residential above, whether it's 4 floors or 40 floors. I do think that 6-8 storeys on top is probably more practical in terms of easy approval and construction.

If something like that happens the Queen Street area will become really great. If they build a set back suburban-style store with gas bar the immediate area probably won't improve much for 20-30 years because it won't be a pleasant area for the residents and pedestrian shoppers who make up the majority in that part of the city.

Sometimes I think we're comparing ourselves to cities that are too large to make an accurate comparison. If you compare Halifax to cities more its size such as Victoria and London, we really don't seem that far behind at all, and are actually progressive in many ways. When I visited London last, I certainly didnt see any 30-40 story towers atop grocery stores .

[Empire]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

New group to lobby against urban sprawl

By PAT LEE Staff Reporter
Thu, May 26 - 4:55 AM
A new alliance has been formed to try to rein in urban sprawl in Halifax Regional Municipality.

The various organizations, with ties to business, the environment or health, have joined forces as the region’s 25-year planning strategy comes up for a mandated five-year review.

Mark Butler of the Ecology Action Centre, which is spearheading the lobbying effort, said the groups that have signed on are concerned about dying downtowns, threatened natural environments and the health of a citizenry tied to driving.

"They love this town and think it could be better, and think we could do better," Butler said of the groups. "That’s the big impetus for creating the alliance. I think things have deteriorated to the point where it’s pretty obvious that something needs to change or happen to counteract the prevailing trend."

The alliance plans to insert itself into the municipality’s review plans, which have not yet been laid out, he said.

"We really hope the alliance is going to take a key role in affecting change."

So far, 17 groups have joined the alliance. Representatives from six of those organizations will form a steering committee to guide their efforts. They are the Ecology Action Centre, the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Nova Scotia, the St. Margaret’s Bay Stewardship Association, the Sackville Rivers Association, the Downtown Halifax Business Commission and Five Bridges Wilderness Heritage Trust.

Members of Our HRM Alliance said they will press the municipality to create a greenbelt around the city, foster a series of vibrant business centres to counteract the proliferation of industrial parks and provide a more robust public transit system.

Paul MacKinnon of the business commission said the alliance is not opposed to development or pitting the downtown against the suburbs.

But MacKinnon said the groups want to ensure municipal growth is sustainable far into the future and meets the needs of individual communities.

"What we’re talking about is new growth. We’re not talking about bulldozing Dartmouth Crossing or taking away existing suburban development. What we’re talking about is the growth we know is going to occur over the next 10, 20 or 30 years."

Geoff Le Boutillier, founder of the St. Margarets Bay-area association, said rampant development is ruining the ecosystem in his community and elsewhere.

"The environment has changed so radically and a lot of that has been caused by the huge sprawl that we see in Tantallon," Le Boutillier said.

"The model that we’re following is crazy and we have to find something to control that."

He said the alliance will actively review the long-range regional plan, "tweaking it and fixing it and making sure that the principles that that plan was built upon will actually be realized in the next 20 years."

Walter Regan, the longtime president of the Sackville Rivers Association, said it is time to off-load more of the costs of building the infrastructure for urban growth from taxpayers to developers.

"Development is not paying its way. We’re subsidizing these new developments and we shouldn’t."

These groups are not anti sprawl, they are anti development period. I think you will see them call for a moratorium on surburban development.

They have no plan to intensify the core as it is just a smoke screen to halt all development.

[planarchy]

Neighbours upset about proposed Fairview development
Site of the old Halifax West High School.
POSTED BY CHRIS BENJAMIN ON THU, MAY 26, 2011 AT 9:58 AM / THE COAST




A proposed United Gulf development at the old Halifax West High School site on Dutch Village Road has sparked controversy. The plan includes a mixed residential and commercial complex, featuring two seven-storey towers of 100 multi-family condos set above a commercial/retail ground floor, a six-storey 60,0000 square-foot commercial building with ground floor retail, a three-storey 27,000 square-foot commercial building, a one-storey retail building, 450 parking spaces (375 of them underground) and 72,000 square feet of public parkland.

Tamara Lorincz, a resident and member of the Fairview/Clayton Park Community Action Network, says that the community has long needed a community centre, and that the Halifax West site is the ideal location.

Lorincz adds that the community has not been adequately consulted with. “Residents on streets bordering and near the site didn’t receive notice for an October 2009 public meeting,” she says. She adds that United Gulf is being given a sweetheart deal for prime real estate. “UG is paying $1.2 million for all that land. It’s reportedly worth at least twice that.”

The councillor for the area, Russell Walker, accuses Lorincz of spreading misinformation. “A hundred notices were sent to homes and businesses around the site,” he says. “About 50 residents attended the 2009 meeting. They didn’t like the duplexes so the duplexes came out; they didn’t like it as one big building so they got two smaller buildings.

“We’ve had 15 different proposals and the community didn’t like any of them,” continues Walker. “A community centre could add $200 on people’s tax bill for 10 years; I don’t think the people of Fairview can afford that.”

City planning staff is preparing a report, due to the Chebucto Community Council by end of May. If the report favours the development, it will likely reach Regional Council by summer’s end.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Empire

These groups are not anti sprawl, they are anti development period. I think you will see them call for a moratorium on surburban development.

They have no plan to intensify the core as it is just a smoke screen to halt all development.

The better question to ask about them is: Where were they when the regional plan was being formulated?

I don't recall many of these groups being involved or even participating in any great detail. The RP is approved - the direction is mainly set, I don't see council wanting to make any serious changes from the RP's direction at this point other than maybe considering an alternate tax strategy for downtown to make it competative with suburban areas.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by planarchy;5292881 [IMG

http://www.thecoast.ca/imager/artists-rendering-of-the-proposed-fairview-development/b/original/2540798/77b4/Fairview.jpg[/IMG]

Garbage - this community rep is spouting garbage and we all know it. Just another nimby trying to stop progress.

As a former resident of Fairview, I can tell you in my university years I saw this neighbourhood start to go down hill. But; there are lots of people that are seeing possibility in the area. Think about it: most of the lots are 50' and you could reno the old bungalows or even tear down and build a bigger home for a fraction of what a new home on a smaller lot would cost. I think that makes Fairview a very interesting area of growth...which staff should look at. Although why the city downzoned most of it to R-1; when it was originally built out at R-2 density (when it was still in the county) is beyond me. Because most of the homes don't have records for their basement apts so getting authorization for them is killer - trust me, when mom sold her house, it was very difficult, but we got the authorization as a duplex.

I also agree with wishblade - I haven't been to London, but a coworker is from there. From the pictures I've seen; we're pretty much on par with London and way ahead of Victoria (I don't think they've broken the 20 storey barrier yet).

As to this particular development - do we not have a thread for it? Perhaps someone should create one if we don't?
Here is the case details from the HRM website.

[-Harlington-]

Halifax West

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=167306&page=2

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by -Harlington-

Halifax West

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=167306&page=2

Perfect - I didn't have time to search for it.

I was thinking about the comment someone made earlier about Councillor Watts and density. Something tells me that if you could show that density could be done in a way that makes an area better and improved, I wonder if she'd be more inclined to support it?

For example: IF someone were to do a whole bunch of 15 to 20 storey mixed use buildings along Agricola? If it was done well, with street improvements and turned the area into a vibrant really awesome place to live - would that change her thinking?

For me; I know that sometimes I find some ideas hard to grasp on paper and can't really vision it even in drawings - but if I saw an example of something for real, I understand it better? Just a thought...

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Wishblade

Sometimes I think we're comparing ourselves to cities that are too large to make an accurate comparison. If you compare Halifax to cities more its size such as Victoria and London, we really don't seem that far behind at all, and are actually progressive in many ways. When I visited London last, I certainly didnt see any 30-40 story towers atop grocery stores .

Vancouver is a good city to emulate in some ways. London, Ontario is not.

I don't expect Halifax to have the same level of commercial development as Vancouver but I think we should expect more than a suburban-style box. I also believe that a mixed-use development is feasible and practical. If the city demanded higher quality development from Sobeys in an intelligent way they would get it.

The "we can't have this in little old Halifax" attitude is for the most part just plain old Atlantic defeatism. Some things are infeasible but a grocery store downtown with residential on top isn't one of them. In fact, we already have one...

[haligonia]

Originally Posted by someone123

Some things are infeasible but a grocery store downtown with residential on top isn't one of them. In fact, we already have one...

Pete's is a fantastic example. It's urban, not too big, and extremely popular. I've had high-profile friends visit from Toronto, and they say that Pete's is the best grocery store they've ever been to.

[someone123]

I agree that Pete's stacks up well against high-end grocery stores in Vancouver or Toronto (places like Whole Foods or Capers).

I should point out that I don't expect the Queen Street Sobeys to go high-end like Pete's, I just expect the development to be better than a suburban box with gas bar. Many average or discount grocery stores in the suburbs here (Safeway, Save On Foods) have parking below and residential above.

Even a modest apartment building in Halifax would presumably more than offset the cost of non-surface parking (on the roof, underground, or ground level with elevated store) and escalators or ramps. And you know what? Even if it doesn't, the city should require the extra investment because surface parking and giant setbacks are bad for the area.

The suburban style development isn't the optimal development, it's just the easy way out that requires little creativity and planning -- those are pushed off to the city, which has to somehow find a way to service these poor developments.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by someone123

In fact, we already have one...

Actually now that I think of it we have at least two. There is also the one on Quinpool Road.

So it was economically feasible in the 1970s in the West End but it's not feasible in 2011 in the South End? I don't buy it!

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Empire

These groups are not anti sprawl, they are anti development period. I think you will see them call for a moratorium on surburban development.

They have no plan to intensify the core as it is just a smoke screen to halt all development.

I have to agree with Empire's comment. If you read some of what this Alliance is stating then it seems evident that they are more anti-development than anti-sprawl. The following comment from the story bothers me:

New group to lobby against urban sprawl

By PAT LEE Staff Reporter
Thu, May 26 - 4:55 AM
A new alliance has been formed to try to rein in urban sprawl in Halifax Regional Municipality.

The various organizations, with ties to business, the environment or health, have joined forces as the region’s 25-year planning strategy comes up for a mandated five-year review.

Mark Butler of the Ecology Action Centre, which is spearheading the lobbying effort, said the groups that have signed on are concerned about dying downtowns, threatened natural environments and the health of a citizenry tied to driving.

"They love this town and think it could be better, and think we could do better," Butler said of the groups. "That’s the big impetus for creating the alliance. I think things have deteriorated to the point where it’s pretty obvious that something needs to change or happen to counteract the prevailing trend."

The alliance plans to insert itself into the municipality’s review plans, which have not yet been laid out, he said.

"We really hope the alliance is going to take a key role in affecting change."

So far, 17 groups have joined the alliance. Representatives from six of those organizations will form a steering committee to guide their efforts. They are the Ecology Action Centre, the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Nova Scotia, the St. Margaret’s Bay Stewardship Association, the Sackville Rivers Association, the Downtown Halifax Business Commission and Five Bridges Wilderness Heritage Trust.

Members of Our HRM Alliance said they will press the municipality to create a greenbelt around the city, foster a series of vibrant business centres to counteract the proliferation of industrial parks and provide a more robust public transit system.

Trying to counteract industrial parks is synonymous with stopping job growth. Industrial jobs will not locate in the downtown core or the peninsula. These are manufacturing type jobs that the HRM needs.

It is also a concern when looking at the group spearheading the Alliance - The Ecology Action Centre which is concerned about "threatened natural environments". It seems like some of these groups have forgotten that they live in an urban area that is the economic engine for all of Nova Scotia.

[bluenoser]

Chronicle Herald article from today about incorporating art and general esthetics into the Armdale and future roundabouts:

Report: Halifax roundabout should be thing of beauty

Any art that would be displayed at the roundabout, it said, would go outside the centre island due to safety concerns and the underground infrastructure under the circle.

I would have thought the inner circle would be the most obvious and safe place to put something in terms of not blocking the view of other vehicles? Oh well.

[spaustin]

I read that in today's Herald too. Sad. Staff missed the whole point of roundabout art. Roundabout's create a centre that calls out for some kind of beautification. Sticking art out on the side misses the whole point. Surely something could be incorporated that addresses whatever safety concerns staff might have. If HRM staff were around in 1808, they would have no doubt condemned the Arc de Triomphe as a dangerous safety hazard!