Sim-Southwest: Our Visionary Concepts Thread

[glynnjamin]

I would argue that the city was equally as paralyzed during the Dbacks 2001 run against the Yankees. There is something to be said about your local "underdog" team taking on mythic champions like the Yankees and Bulls. Much more epic than defeating a team like the Royals or Nets. I think the Suns championship run and the Dbacks World Series stand out much more than the Cards Super Bowl appearance. Maybe that's just me and my lack of interest in the NFL

[HooverDam]

^You're correct both the D'backs and Suns runs gripped the city more than the Cardinals. I think its for a variety of reasons, one being that the Cardinals were blacked out on TV in Arizona for most of their existence. People like me who should be big Cardinals fans only half care because I couldn't watch them play growing up and I didn't grow a bond to them.

Additionally the NFL season is much shorter and its not like anyone expected the Cardinals to go to the Super Bowl (I still only half believe it). They weren't building momentum all year like those great Suns and D'backs teams were, they just suddenly went on a crazy playoff run.

If one needs any proof that this is a NBA town, we through the Suns a parade when they lost the Finals, the Cardinals didn't get the same treatment.

[plinko]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

If one needs any proof that this is a NBA town, we through the Suns a parade when they lost the Finals, the Cardinals didn't get the same treatment.

I was at that parade with 300,000 others. I had my bike stolen and had to spend 2 hours on the bus getting home to Tempe.

I agree with Hoover that the likelihood of taxpayers funding a new arena downtown is nill. If Colangelo was still involved? Maybe as a public/private partnership...but after the fleecing of Glendale (totally their own fault) by Ellman and the Coyotes, the Bidwills and the Cardinals I doubt that the city would really want to pony up the $$$.

Phoenix is one of the strongest NBA markets and always has been and I doubt the league would ever let them move.

Short of moving, the worst thing that could happen is relocating the team somewhere else in town with good freeway access and lots of fantastic chain stores to hit on the way into the arena *cough* Glendale *cough*.

I still put forth that moving the Coyotes and the Cardinals to Glendale was tragic.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by plinko

I still put forth that moving the Coyotes and the Cardinals to Glendale was tragic.

I don't think the Cardinals going out there is an issue at all. With football its only 8 home games a year and they're mostly all on Sundays, driving out a distance isn't an issue. Lots of successful teams have suburban football stadiums (Kansas City, both New York teams, etc). I think putting the Cardinals downtown would've been a giant mistake and the potential of the Biomed is much more appealing that a stadium that creates a super block and is rarely used.

However I agree the 'Yotes going out there stunk. I would've preferred Los Arcos or a Downtown site. A downtown site somewhere over on the West end of the potential warehouse district would've been great.

[Vicelord John]

It would have been awful to have Cardinals stadium downtown. Football stadiums are just too big, and Bank One Ballpark is a big enough eyesore on its own.

[plinko]

^Agreed that the Coyotes move was much worse, but the City of Phoenix really screwed themselves on the Cardinals deal. If the stadium had been built as designed at Washington/Priest, it would have been right on the LRT. So all those people hanging out DT at superbowl events could have just hopped on the train to get to the game. But no, they had to f*ck over Tempe, only to get undercut by Glendale.

But yes I agree that the Cardinals never needed to go downtown.

Imagine some of the TOD that might have gone in along the LRT between 48th and Mill? It might look alot more like what's going on with Apache Trail through Tempe than what it is.

[[email protected]]

Ever wonder what Downtoen Phoenix ould look like with 90% of its dirt lots were filled with 20-50 story towers? Or if downtown Phoenix were a place full of foot traffic and shops with residential and comercial buildings towering behinde them? Well maybe these pictures can awnser your question!
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The sight wont let me post the pictures that i made for some reason wich kinda —...(When i post them a little box with a red X is there) So click on these to see what Phoenix SHOULD look like

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http://www.panoramio.com/photo/49620000


http://www.panoramio.com/photo/49620005


http://www.panoramio.com/photo/49620007


http://www.panoramio.com/photo/49620011


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http://www.panoramio.com/photo/49620015


http://www.panoramio.com/photo/49620021


http://www.panoramio.com/photo/49620024


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http://www.panoramio.com/photo/49620037


http://www.panoramio.com/photo/49620418


http://www.panoramio.com/photo/49626824


http://www.panoramio.com/photo/49626825
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[HX_Guy]

Here, I'll help you with the photos.

[combusean]

So why are you proposing demolishing the north half of my National Register of Historic Places neighborhood for a generic office core again? =P

It is an interesting exercise but you might want to take a hard second look at what you are tearing down.

[HX_Guy]

Not just that, but why are the lots around the southern end of downtown still empty parking lots? The Cityscape lots...the lots around US Airways Center...around Jackson St.

[Leo the Dog]

Nice vision, good work.

[[email protected]]

^^ Thanks!

[[email protected]]

High Speed Rail:
Im currently reading Visions in the Desert: Carl Hayden and Hydropolitics in the Southwest and it amazes me that we used to have guys like Carl Hayden and Barry Goldwater who actually did some good for Arizona. Today the Federal government is giving out huge sums of money and we have to rely on our Mayor and a Congressman to wrangle any of it for us.

Obviously we need more rail options for commuters and it would be nice to not be so reliant on air travel when going to other cities. Like James Howard Kunstler says, we have "a rail system the Bulgarians would be ashamed of." Arizona ought to pursue a HSR line connecting Nogales to the Grand Canyon. Something along these lines:


High speed rail connecting 2 major metropolitan areas to the gateway to another country and one of the 7 wonders of the world would be amazing for tourist and locals alike. If other states/the Fed wanted to chip in there could be a junction in Wickenburg to connect up to Vegas and one in Phoenix (at Union station) connecting to LA. Im not sure how you'd connect to SD, maybe through Phoenix or maybe Florence would make more sense. Or maybe youd just have to go to SD by way of LA.

I know it would be insanely expensive and thus itll probably never happen. But hey, the CAP cost billions too. Id love it if we had leaders who were able to sell the Federal Gov't on building it as a demonstration project for nationwide HSR but its highly unlikely we'd be able to convince them to build it here instead of somewhere like NYC-DC.[/QUOTE]



Yah having more Rail Options in the valley would be nice pretty cool.

[HooverDam]

This seems less like a "visionary concept" and more like a "well, duh" concept, but looking at Google Maps I was noticing how many places adjacent to the LRT could be planter strips that aren't. For instance:







It would seemingly help the heat island if these area's were filled with planter strips and trees. Additionally it would of course beautify the city and as the tree's grow and vault and create that ceiling feeling it would give our streets more of a sense of place.

Here in Boston they do a good job of this, many of their Light Rail lines have trees on either side of them:



The train line is back behind the diagonal parking and the line of trees.

Obviously we'd never get that kind of tree density in a desert but it would be nice to at least have some palms, cacti, agaves, lantana and some tall/thin trees (that wouldn't interfere with the trains) like Jacarandas in those areas where planter strips are.

[Leo the Dog]

^^Beacon St. C Line. A great model of LRT and TOD that I've always thought could be achievable in Phoenix/Tempe.

[Vicelord John]

davidmpierre that looks like a similar version of what I did a year ago on the regional train plan

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&h...111.703491&spn=2.598804,5.795288&t=h&z=8

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

davidmpierre that looks like a similar version of what I did a year ago on the regional train plan

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&h...111.703491&spn=2.598804,5.795288&t=h&z=8

He's quoting me from earlier in this thread.

[Vicelord John]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

He's quoting me from earlier in this thread.

ah, it wasn't in a quote so I had no clue...

Perhaps he should learn how to use the forum properly instead of simply copying and pasting others text into his own post.

[HooverDam]

I posted earlier in this thread about my jealousy of other big Cities and their traditional bronze 'great man on a horse' type statues and I got to thinking about that again. Here in Boston they have tons of statues and memorials, its terrific, it really beautifies the City and gives it a sense of place and permanence.

I was thinking maybe along some corridor through downtown (First Street probably) there should be statues commemorating the Presidents the East-West Streets were named for. There could also be plaques of information boards with info about that President, for some it'll be a lot of stuff we all know but for others (Polk, Fillmore, Taylor, etc.) it'll shed light on oft forgotten Presidents. Additionally each plaque/info board could have a "Arizona during X's Presidency" with history on what was going on in AZ at that time. Guys like Polk, Pierce, etc. obviously had huge impacts on Arizona history and that could be quite interesting.

Also while thinking about this I noticed on the map that Harrison street is the smallest of the Presidential streets, in most places it doesn't exist as it aligns with the railroad tracks. Fitting for a President who got sick during inauguration and died a few months into office.

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

I posted earlier in this thread about my jealousy of other big Cities and their traditional bronze 'great man on a horse' type statues and I got to thinking about that again. Here in Boston they have tons of statues and memorials, its terrific, it really beautifies the City and gives it a sense of place and permanence.

I was thinking maybe along some corridor through downtown (First Street probably) there should be statues commemorating the Presidents the East-West Streets were named for. There could also be plaques of information boards with info about that President, for some it'll be a lot of stuff we all know but for others (Polk, Fillmore, Taylor, etc.) it'll shed light on oft forgotten Presidents. Additionally each plaque/info board could have a "Arizona during X's Presidency" with history on what was going on in AZ at that time. Guys like Polk, Pierce, etc. obviously had huge impacts on Arizona history and that could be quite interesting.

Also while thinking about this I noticed on the map that Harrison street is the smallest of the Presidential streets, in most places it doesn't exist as it aligns with the railroad tracks. Fitting for a President who got sick during inauguration and died a few months into office.

Hoover, A good idea for DT Phx, I like it. I wonder if Phoenix will ever rename streets to keep the presidential theme going?

I'm sure you've seen both Paul Revere on a horse in the North End (often dressed up in Red Sox gear in the fall) and George Washington also on a horse in Boston Garden.