North Shore Updates

[delboy]

very balanced views awvan and pinion. I don't disagree. I came here with high expectations and they haven't really borne out. i moved here from Kits about 2 years ago to 3 rd and Lonsdale. I moved here as i didn't want to leave Vancouver but like many have been priced out, saw Lo Lo as compromise to leaving vancouver. I figured at close to 50 it was time to move out of one bedroom apartments for good. Funny thing is that i only go downtown maybe a couple of times a month at the most.

I dislike Lower Lonsdale so much that i rarely bother walking down there anymore. There are a couple of good places I will miss, the Kingston, Rusty Gull and the quay but that is about it and the pick of more thrift stores, hair salons, spas and nail salons this side of the rockies.

The numerous run down apartments are depressing to say the least. They bother me more here than Kits for some reason?? Driving down the lower road through the native land is a disgrace,,,they should be ashmed of themselves.

3 rd ave between lonsdale and chesterfield is where I notice the most garbage, i take an extra couple of bags when I walk the pouch and often pick up a lot of the rubbish and on occasion other dog's poop. There is not a single trash can,,,i asked the city to put in some....answer a firm no.

So true about the hill, I never thought it would put me off as much as it does...even the dog seems reluctant to tackle the hill so i take him east and west from the apartment

My commute was never an issue as I have a company vehicle and the commute is built into my work day.

It also came down to house prices. I have finally given in to the appeal of more space and a lower mortgage, plus i'm almost old enough to fit into with the white rock crowd

edit: will miss the Indian on 3 rd....best Indian food I've had...and that means a lot coming from a brit.

[whatnext]

What was the City's excuse for not putting in more trash cans? Maybe if the ridiculous separation between City and District was finally healed, they'd have money for this kind of stuff.

[delboy]

Originally Posted by whatnext

What was the City's excuse for not putting in more trash cans? Maybe if the ridiculous separation between City and District was finally healed, they'd have money for this kind of stuff.

He essentially disagreed that they weren't keeping on top of things. I pointed out that the amount of retail along 3 rd should warrant at least a few trash cans.....he said that at that time they weren't warranted. I threatened to leave my daily collections on the steps to city hall (which I would never do). The conversation went down hill from there.

The city sweeps the streets once a week is what I learned and empties the trash cans every morning.

[Pinion]

delboy, you mean the Indian restaurant in the "Twin Towers" 1970s concrete monstrosity that's been a Vietnamese restaurant for a while now, or the new Indian on West 3rd that used to be a Mexican joint near the bowling alley? Haven't tried the latter.

Ever go to Palki on Lonsdale and 15th? That's my family's fav by far, including my half-East Indian wife's.

[Rusty Gull]

Hey DelBoy - did you get a name of who you were talking to at City Hall? I think we should take your conversation to the Mayor. This is just wrong on several levels.

[Rusty Gull]

Run, Delboy, run!!! The Nimby-ism just keeps growing...

City of North Vancouver opts out of Onni meeting


Council asks staff, Onni to reduce proposed density on Safeway site

BY JEREMY SHEPHERD, NORTH SHORE NEWSMAY 13, 2011

The multi-tower development proposed by Onni Group for the Safeway site at 13th Street and Lonsdale Avenue came under fire at City of North Vancouver council Monday.
Photograph by: submitted image, for North Shore News
The proposed development for the Safeway site at 13th and Lonsdale came under scrutiny Monday, with several City of North Vancouver councillors taking issue with Onni Group's proposal and their plan to embark on a series of town hall meetings.

Onni's current site plan includes 334 residential units in three residential towers, as well as a department store.

The density of the proposed development, almost double the floor-space-ratio of the city's official community plan, has been a sticking point in the development.

Onni Group has proposed incorporating a relocated museum in its development, which could include either two or three towers, but council has yet to be impressed.

"Quite honestly, I'm not in a position to suggest Onni continue with a museum or at all," said Coun. Rod Clark.

Onni has proposed housing the North Vancouver Museum and Archives on the site, as well as giving the city 15 affordable housing units. In return for building the museum, Onni has aked the city for 147,000 square feet of commercial density.

Clark reiterated that the city would likely be better served by a large arts facility including a museum, and said he would favour a two-tower proposal.

Clark also took issue with Onni's plan to pitch their plan to the community in town hall meetings rather than to council.

Coun. Pam Bookham expressed numerous concerns about the development and the developer.

"I think that the applicant is getting ahead of himself and not listening . . . to council," she said.

Bookham said she was dissatisfied with the current plan, which would put the museum on the second floor instead of ground level. She also criticized the plan for its "lack of design refinement," calling the buildings "skeletal" and "massive."

Bookham and Coun. Craig Keating agreed that Onni Group could discuss their proposal with the community, but said the city should not take part in those meetings.

Mayor Darrell Mussatto, who also said he preferred a two-tower option, said the city needed to solidify its position in terms of how much extra space and extra density the city is willing to give a developer like Onni in exchange for amenities like a museum.

Still, he called on Onni to refine their plan before the development could move forward. "I think a little more work needs to be done by the development community," he said.

Council elected to remove the town hall meetings from the current proposal before voting to continue working with Onni.

The motion council passed calls on city staff to work with Onni to reduce the density of the proposal, preserve the views of neighbouring buildings, improve pedestrian paths and open spaces for the public.

The first community meeting is scheduled for May 17 at 6 p.m. at the Royal Candian Legion 118, 123 West 15th St.

[Rusty Gull]

Delboy, awvan and pinion:

All great opinions and perspectives.

To me, the best aspect of Lower Lonsdale is the geography - specifically the hill and the harbour, with the mountain backdrop. And the village-like feel of the area, particularly around 1st and Lonsdale. And of course the history/heritage.

But I have a long laundry list of what is wrong with Lower Lonsdale:

1. As mentioned earlier, garbage and litter strewn about.
2. Growing social disorder, including homelessness and vagrancy. (What gives with the constant barrage of beggars at the Chesterfield 7-11)
3. Mostly mediocre retail, except for some great restaurants (Pasparos, Vedas, Quattro, Burgoo)
4. The way the neighbourhood is treated as a dumping ground for North Shore's social problems (various agencies, shelters, etc are located in Lower Lonsdale)
5. Horrible bus service courtesy TransLink
6. Petty crime and graffiti
7. 3rd Street is a freeway at time - it should have a more pedestrian-friendly vibe, and the speed limit should be lowered
8. The alleys are a total afterthought - no imagination whatsoever
9. The SeaBus depot is a dump. What a lost opportunity.
10. Virtually nothing in the way of real parks or playgrounds (Waterfront Park is the only real greenspace - the other "pocket" parks attract mostly low-lifes)

[wrenegade]

Here are my thoughts on a couple things on your list:

Originally Posted by Rusty Gull

But I have a long laundry list of what is wrong with Lower Lonsdale:

1. As mentioned earlier, garbage and litter strewn about. Honestly, I don't notice this too much
3. Mostly mediocre retail, except for some great restaurants (Pasparos, Vedas, Quattro, Burgoo) This is tough. As I mentioned before, hill kill retail. One this that will help is getting more people living in the area. That and more parking. Every retailer I talk to complains about the lack of parking. Residents themselves who live in the area can walk, but why would someone from outside of the area come to Lower Lonsdale to shop when there is so little parking, especially compared with Central Lonsdale.
4. The way the neighbourhood is treated as a dumping ground for North Shore's social problems (various agencies, shelters, etc are located in Lower Lonsdale)How do we fix this? Move all the agencies and shelters somewhere else making it someone else's problem? I think it just comes with the location, density and seabus, no where else on the North Shore makes as much sense as where we are here.
5. Horrible bus service courtesy TransLinkWelcome to the North Shore, transit blows. I wish there was an east-west bus on 3rd St that didn't route through the Quay, but anything besides that and perhaps increased frequency on existing routes is too much to ask. We don't have the population that needs it.
7. 3rd Street is a freeway at time - it should have a more pedestrian-friendly vibe, and the speed limit should be lowered I absolutely disagree with this. 3rd St is an arterial road, it is needed to move traffic through the area. When the Low Level road is under construction 3rd will be rammed with traffic, but hopefully when it is re-opened it will allow for a better flow of traffic through the area.
8. The alleys are a total afterthought - no imagination whatsoeverI really don't see what can be done on the North-South alleys, their grades make it really difficult to change anything. Having the areas around east 1st & 2nd re-done to be like west 1st & 2nd would be fantastic though.
9. The SeaBus depot is a dump. What a lost opportunity. Agreed. Honestly don't see anything to change it besides knocking it down and starting again. It can be prettied up a bit, but the term "lipstick on a pig" comes to mind.
10. Virtually nothing in the way of real parks or playgrounds (Waterfront Park is the only real greenspace - the other "pocket" parks attract mostly low-lifes)One of the things that drives me nuts about Waterfront Park is the separation with the rail line running through it. I would love the city to offer some sort of density bonus to some developer to build a tunnel and properly connect the park (the pedestrian bridge is not good enough. The city lot on east 1st needs to have something done with it. It's not really a park, but it's not really anything. Turning it into a park like Jack Loucks court would be great.

I'm also going to add another. The indian reservation is a disgusting blight on the area. Obviously there are a whole host of issues there, but it is just a shame in general. Such a great location, I wish that it could be improved to help both the first nations and the community together.

edit: This discussion should be moved to the Lower Lonsdale thread.

[wrenegade]

Open house is tomorrow night at the Legion on West 15th. The submission to council can be found here: Onni Proposal

Also, Adera has started sales on their seven35 townhouse development at 735 West 15th (opposite Mosquito Creek). I toured a couple of the show homes on Friday evening, quite nice. Only studios and two bedroom units which I thought was a little odd, but I think it works.

http://www.adera.com/properties/999/4/current-properties/seven35

[wrenegade]

One more thing. The City of North Van has applied to rezone 720 West 2nd from industrial to residential. 720 West 2nd is their Works Yard opposite Mosquito Creek. This would be a HUGE change for the area and something I have thought of many times. My guess is the Mitsubishi dealership (soon to be Kia dealership) and the other small commercial/industrial building to the west of it could be rezoned quite easily as well (following a successful rezoning of the works Yard of course).

[Pinion]

The speed limit on 3rd is 30km/h where I live (park zone), and absolutely no one - ever - goes that speed. I have to start walking across the crosswalk and glare at people, faking that I'm going to step in front of them, to even have a prayer of someone slowing down for me.

[Rusty Gull]

Great insights awvan.

Do you not think the City would benefit by laying brick down in the alleys of Lower Lonsdale, putting up some speed barriers, and making the whole network of alleys much more pedestrian friendly? If the City of North Vancouver is truly committed to getting people out of their cars, they really should make Lower Lonsdale walkable.

Also, why should 3rd Street ever have to serve as an arterial road? We already have the best east-west arterial anyone could ask for here on the North Shore: The Trans-Canada Highway!

Finally, do hills really have to kill retail? I can think of many towns and cities where retail thrives on main streets that are roughly as steep as Lonsdale in the stretch between Esplanade and 3rd.

[Rusty Gull]

Well at least things are about to get better graffiti-wise in Lower and Central Lonsdale.

North Vancouver RCMP tag graffiti vandals


By Contributed - North Shore Outlook
Published: May 16, 2011 10:00 AM
Updated: May 16, 2011 3:29 PM

North Vancouver RCMP have arrested two youths aged 12 and 13 for spraypainting more than 150 graffiti "tags" on dozens of buildings Sunday night.

The two boys were arrested after they "tagged" businesses and residences on Lonsdale Avenue between 25th Street and Esplanade overnight last night. The pair snuck out of their houses while their parents were unaware and spraypainted the front and rear of businesses all along Lonsdale Avenue. At around 3 a.m., and observant patrol officer spotted the boys and arrested them at the corner of Lonsdale Avenue and West 8th Street. They were released into the custody of their rather exasperated parents.


North Vancouver RCMP's Community Policing volunteers will be visiting the affected locations today to gather contact information for the people affected. To report damages, affected businesses can also call the North Vancouver Detachment at (604) 985-1311 and quote file number 2011-13065.

In part because of the age of the youths, Police will be referring the incident to the Restorative Justice program run out of the North Vancouver Detachment and administered by the North Shore Restorative Justice Society (NSRJ). NSRJ is a non-profit organization that advocates for and supports restorative responses to crime and conflict. Since 1997, the Society has operated the Restorative Response Program, a community-based initiative that provides an effective alternative to the court system. The program responds to situations of crime and conflict committed by youth and adults by facilitating mediation, conferencing, peacemaking circles and shuttle mediation based on the principles of restorative justice.

Once a matter is referred to NSRJ, they will contact all parties affected by the incident and meet with them individually to find out what happened, who is taking responsibility for what, how people have been affected, and what might need to happen next. Based on these exploratory meetings, they work to design a restorative response that might include a face-to-face encounter (like a mediation, conference or circle) or explore how else the harm might be addressed in a meaningful way.

North Vancouver RCMP fights graffiti on a regular basis, not only through targeted patrols by uniformed officers, but also through enforcement projects, prevention programs, and cleanup initiatives undertaken by officer and volunteers with the Detachment's Community Policing section. Graffiti clean-up costs the District of North Vancouver approximately $100,000 per year; the cost for the City of North Vancouver is unavailable at this time.

The North Shore Integrated Graffiti Task Force (NSIGTF), which is coordinated by the North Vancouver RCMP's anti-graffiti program, will also be conducting a general graffiti clean-up day in Deep Cove in partnership with the District of North Vancouver. The event, which was recently rescheduled due to weather, will be conducted in the coming weeks.

Submitted by Cpl. Peter DeVries, North Vancouver RCMP detachment.

[wrenegade]

Lots of people at Onni's open house last night, although probably half of them lived in the Grand. Onni actually had two slightly different proposals, the three tower version here and the second being a two tower option. The two tower option would have exactly the same podium/museum/commercial space layout but would eliminate the 180' tower on the SE corner of the site and add 60' to the other SW tower for a total of 180', and 60' the north tower on 14th for a total of 240'. As the OCP height limit is 180' this would also require an OCP amendment.

Personally I think the two tower option is much much better. I'm sure all the residents in the Grand prefer this option as well. Anyone who lives to the northeast of the site is going to lose part of their view whether the tower is 120', 180' or 240', so in my mind why not go 240' and eliminate the 3rd tower. The difference between 180' and 240' isn't going to be all that noticeable but between 2 and 3 towers, it definitely will be.

My main concern with the development was how in god's name were they going to be able to lease the commercial retail space on the 2nd and 3rd floor, considering it totals about 130,000 sf. However they are working with a large department store to take all of that space, and a deal is "it their sights" wink* wink* nudge* nudge*.

Also, it appears Hollyburn not only has their 20 storey, 188 unit rental building proposed at the corner of 14th and Chesterfield (behind Vista Place) but also a second 120' tower on the Nando's site. The massing appeared in all of Onni's material.

One thing that is slightly worrying for the area is that if/when this project is approved and starts construction, there will likely be an overlap with Anthem's project where there is no operating grocery store in Central Lonsdale. I'm not sure there is a way to get around that, but it is certainly going to hurt for locals, especially those without a car.

Maybe the residents shouldn't have been so up in arms about the Extra Foods site a couple years ago and it would have been finished by the time Onni began their demolition.

edit to add: I think the museum is a waste of time. First of all, a museum celebrating the history of North Van/ the North Shore should be in Lower Lonsdale. Secondly, Harry Jerome Rec Centre is in dire need of replacement/renovation and I think a financial contribution by Onni to get this going would serve the residents of Central Lonsdale far better than a museum would.

[wrenegade]

Onni's "the Drive" at Marine & Bridgman is now framing. Moving along quite well.

[jozero]

The Harbourside overpass bridge for the Spirit Trail looks really close to finishing. Great to see such a major part of the Spirit Trail near completion. Not sure of the official opening date.

http://www.cnv.org/server.aspx?c=3&i=544

[Pinion]

I noticed the enormous apartment complex on Capliano and Marine is getting painted. Not sure if they plan to go all the way up, but that building could be great with a little sprucing up. It actually has a really cool design but the brutal concrete obscures it.

[delboy]

Originally Posted by Pinion

I noticed the enormous apartment complex on Capliano and Marine is getting painted. Not sure if they plan to go all the way up, but that building could be great with a little sprucing up. It actually has a really cool design but the brutal concrete obscures it.

ugliest buidling i think i have ever occassioned. Very soviet era.

[jozero]

Originally Posted by jozero

The Harbourside overpass bridge for the Spirit Trail looks really close to finishing. Great to see such a major part of the Spirit Trail near completion. Not sure of the official opening date.

http://www.cnv.org/server.aspx?c=3&i=544

Went to Thomas Haas storefront near Bodwell High School on the sunny weekend and took a walk down that short part of the Spirit Trail. The bike / pedestrian bridge's official grand opening is June 9th at 3.30pm. Kind of a strange time to pick since people are normally working. There also new bike lines painted along west 1st street.

The trail is coming along nicely. Soon when major parts of it connect I'm guessing people will discover it as a great place for a weekend ride.

[G-Slice]

Originally Posted by awvan

My main concern with the development was how in god's name were they going to be able to lease the commercial retail space on the 2nd and 3rd floor, considering it totals about 130,000 sf. However they are working with a large department store to take all of that space, and a deal is "it their sights" wink* wink* nudge* nudge*.

Wow a Target at Lonsdale and 13th? I can see if being good for the area if it's on the 2nd and 3rd floors and leaves the street-level for smaller places. The stores on Lonsdale that would really be in competition with Target (like those junky TV/appliance places, certain clothing or shoe stores) wouldn't really be missed. I'm sure a lot of people would check out the other stores in the area if they could easily find parking (I'm presuming something will be built under the Target).