UBC/UEL Updates Discussion

[djun]

Yup, that's the location.

[Dylan Leblanc]

Great thanks! entheosfog's photo helped me nail it. I used to live around the corner on Oyama Ct. about 10 years ago, the neighbourhood has sure changed!

[Dylan Leblanc]

Looks like this one is also U/C out at UBC in the new Wesbrook village area.

Sage - http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=94686


http://reimers.ca/results.php?page=6...%2FCondo%22%3B

[Zassk]

The UBC Line really should be planned with a slight deviation south from the golf course down to near Wesbrook Village, before turning back north to the bus loop, so the growing Wesbrook area can be served by a transit station.

Map to illustrate:
http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?ie=UTF...79308&t=h&z=14

[djh]

Originally Posted by Zassk

The UBC Line really should be planned with a slight deviation south from the golf course down to near Wesbrook Village, before turning back north to the bus loop, so the growing Wesbrook area can be served by a transit station.

Map to illustrate:
http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?ie=UTF...79308&t=h&z=14

That makes a LOT of sense.

How would one navigate skytrain around the golf course? I would imagine that it would probably be overground from University Boulevard and west, so how to cross a golf course - isn't that route you plotted all golf course, oe no? And is that land owned by a native band, in which case, how easy or difficult would it be for the province to gain right-of-way privileges?

(BTW, how do you make annotated google maps?)

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by djh

That makes a LOT of sense.

How would one navigate skytrain around the golf course? I would imagine that it would probably be overground from University Boulevard and west, so how to cross a golf course - isn't that route you plotted all golf course, oe no? And is that land owned by a native band, in which case, how easy or difficult would it be for the province to gain right-of-way privileges?

(BTW, how do you make annotated google maps?)

The route that I drew cuts across the last hole of the golf course, but it could be rerouted a few meters further west so that it's not on the golf course property.

My main proposal is to make the SkyTrain turn the other way where University Blvd curves, skirt along the edge of UHill school and Acadia residence and emerge on Wesbrook Blvd. A station there would serve the residences, frat houses, Hamptons, both high schools, Wesbrook Village, and Thunderbird sports.

P.S. To make a map, signin/create your Google account, then go to Google maps and click "My Maps" -> "Create New Map".

[wrenegade]

I like the idea, but personally I think it would make more sense for the UBC Line to continue down University Blvd, have a stop at or around University Blvd & Wesbrook Mall, then continue down Wesbrook at terminate at a Wesbrook Village Station. It kinda seems backwards to prioritize Wesbrook Village station over the UBC Station in my opinion.

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by Zassk

The UBC Line really should be planned with a slight deviation south from the golf course down to near Wesbrook Village, before turning back north to the bus loop, so the growing Wesbrook area can be served by a transit station.

Map to illustrate:
http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?ie=UTF...79308&t=h&z=14

great idea .... and great map. I think this should be considered by Translink if they move forward with RRT

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by awvan

I like the idea, but personally I think it would make more sense for the UBC Line to continue down University Blvd, have a stop at or around University Blvd & Wesbrook Mall, then continue down Wesbrook at terminate at a Wesbrook Village Station. It kinda seems backwards to prioritize Wesbrook Village station over the UBC Station in my opinion.

Either way is fine to me, but Wesbrook Village is actually quite a bit further east than UBC station, so it would be a strange path.

My thought was that, as the campus expands toward Wesbrook Village, you basically end up with two stations serving the larger campus, plus both of the neighbouring communities.

[Alex Mackinnon]

I've always though running the tracks to the Thunderbird area of campus would make a fair bit of sense, the running it up mall to the SUB. It would kill about 700m of walking for events at the stadium, and allow the parkade to be used as a park and ride in the summer.

Also, the engineering area of campus would love it

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by djh

That makes a LOT of sense.

How would one navigate skytrain around the golf course? I would imagine that it would probably be overground from University Boulevard and west, so how to cross a golf course - isn't that route you plotted all golf course, oe no? And is that land owned by a native band, in which case, how easy or difficult would it be for the province to gain right-of-way privileges?

(BTW, how do you make annotated google maps?)

If TBM construction is used, there's nothing to 'navigate around' since the tube is already 50'-75' underground.

The Canada Line tunnel was built using TBM machines from Olympic Station to Waterfront Station. No need to 'navigate around' False Creek - just bore the tube under it. The curved section from Yaletown Station to Granville Street simply stayed deep enough that the ground supporting the buildings overhead (like the Brava condos, the VanCity Theatre, the Chateau Granville) barely moved. From the reports I've read the worst amount of ground settling was less than 1/4 mm - the corner of one older building sank by roughly the thickness of a fingernail. The engineers were aware of this but weren't too worried about this, since the building was going to be knocked over anyhow for the expansion of Emery Barnes Park.

With TBM construction, once you are deep underground, and have sufficient separation from the buildings above so that the ground supporting those buildings doesn't move, you can bore the TBM tunnel under anything you want - golf courses, condos, schools, water (like False Creek), and streets (like University Blvd or 10th Ave).

Of course its easier to bore new subway tunnels under already existing infrastructure like roads, but sometimes it is necessary to go under -or close to- existing buildings to simplify the routing of the subway.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by awvan

I like the idea, but personally I think it would make more sense for the UBC Line to continue down University Blvd, have a stop at or around University Blvd & Wesbrook Mall, then continue down Wesbrook at terminate at a Wesbrook Village Station. It kinda seems backwards to prioritize Wesbrook Village station over the UBC Station in my opinion.

Agreed - and it provides more an an opportunity for expansion along 41st Ave in the distant future.

[Millennium2002]

Actually that [41st Ave Line] should be its own separate line with separate tunnels. =S

[djh]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

If TBM construction is used, there's nothing to 'navigate around' since the tube is already 50'-75' underground.

The Canada Line tunnel was built using TBM machines from Olympic Station to Waterfront Station. No need to 'navigate around' False Creek - just bore the tube under it. The curved section from Yaletown Station to Granville Street simply stayed deep enough that the ground supporting the buildings overhead (like the Brava condos, the VanCity Theatre, the Chateau Granville) barely moved. From the reports I've read the worst amount of ground settling was less than 1/4 mm - the corner of one older building sank by roughly the thickness of a fingernail. The engineers were aware of this but weren't too worried about this, since the building was going to be knocked over anyhow for the expansion of Emery Barnes Park.

With TBM construction, once you are deep underground, and have sufficient separation from the buildings above so that the ground supporting those buildings doesn't move, you can bore the TBM tunnel under anything you want - golf courses, condos, schools, water (like False Creek), and streets (like University Blvd or 10th Ave).

Of course its easier to bore new subway tunnels under already existing infrastructure like roads, but sometimes it is necessary to go under -or close to- existing buildings to simplify the routing of the subway.

Yes. IF you use a TBM.
I specifically ignored that IF, because a) TBM construction is way more expensive than building an at-grade (or elevated) guideway, and b) this is a highly-cost-sensitive project which would probably be criticized for "wasting" money if an expensive technology were used when a cheaper one would suffice, and c) there would be little objection to an at-grade or eleveated guideway along University Boulevard due to the lack of residents to complain about their "ruined" views. Yes, I'd love to see a TBM used, but I doubt it's necessary.

From what I remember in studies, and from comparison to the southernmost section of the Canada Line, it's possible that the route might be single-track to UBC. Therefore, wouldn't it make more sense to have the track go past the residential area before hitting a terminus at UBC, as suggested in Zassk's map? Just a thought.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

If TBM construction is used, there's nothing to 'navigate around' since the tube is already 50'-75' underground.

The Canada Line tunnel was built using TBM machines from Olympic Station to Waterfront Station. No need to 'navigate around' False Creek - just bore the tube under it. The curved section from Yaletown Station to Granville Street simply stayed deep enough that the ground supporting the buildings overhead (like the Brava condos, the VanCity Theatre, the Chateau Granville) barely moved. From the reports I've read the worst amount of ground settling was less than 1/4 mm - the corner of one older building sank by roughly the thickness of a fingernail. The engineers were aware of this but weren't too worried about this, since the building was going to be knocked over anyhow for the expansion of Emery Barnes Park.

With TBM construction, once you are deep underground, and have sufficient separation from the buildings above so that the ground supporting those buildings doesn't move, you can bore the TBM tunnel under anything you want - golf courses, condos, schools, water (like False Creek), and streets (like University Blvd or 10th Ave).

Of course its easier to bore new subway tunnels under already existing infrastructure like roads, but sometimes it is necessary to go under -or close to- existing buildings to simplify the routing of the subway.

Agreed. I think tunnels are the best way to go, with the least impact on the environment, visual and otherwise.

Originally Posted by officedweller

Agreed - and it provides more an an opportunity for expansion along 41st Ave in the distant future.

I also think a crosstown midtown line will one day be needed, and 41st is a good choice, probably the best, for such. However, (and cut-and-cover is a lot cheaper, though messy) I think the line should be underground. Guideways along 41st would render much of the street hideous.

Originally Posted by djh

Yes. IF you use a TBM.
I specifically ignored that IF, because a) TBM construction is way more expensive than building an at-grade (or elevated) guideway, and b) this is a highly-cost-sensitive project which would probably be criticized for "wasting" money if an expensive technology were used when a cheaper one would suffice, and c) there would be little objection to an at-grade or eleveated guideway along University Boulevard due to the lack of residents to complain about their "ruined" views. Yes, I'd love to see a TBM used, but I doubt it's necessary.

.

IMHO it's the $$$ aspect, as you say, that is prohibitive. Nevertheless, be there complaining residents or not, I still much prefer the tunnel method.

[Porfiry]

The Translink consultation doc says any tunnelling at UBC would be cut-and-cover.

[Millennium2002]

Actually I disagree about SkyTrain being moved south to serve Westbrook. That forces everyone else from the East to go an indirect route (e.g. a private subway system) akin to the debate about Guildford and the Surrey Rapid Transit system. A better solution would be to do some sort of cyclical streetcar system like what some of the UBC urban planning professors want. It'd fit in well being a local system designed to serve the polycentric UBC neighbourhoods.

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

Actually I disagree about SkyTrain being moved south to serve Westbrook. That forces everyone else from the East to go an indirect route (e.g. a private subway system) akin to the debate about Guildford and the Surrey Rapid Transit system. A better solution would be to do some sort of cyclical streetcar system like what some of the UBC urban planning professors want. It'd fit in well being a local system designed to serve the polycentric UBC neighbourhoods.

This is actually a pretty good idea. Wesbrook is a pretty wide street and with a couple areas along it's length where stations could work, street LRT is probably much more appropriate. Not to mention probably quite a bit cheaper.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

The Translink consultation doc says any tunnelling at UBC would be cut-and-cover.

What about getting it up the escarpment? If it's cut and cover under 10th going up, isn't that a rather steep grade?

[Millennium2002]

I doubt that's considered a part of UBC though... besides the local residents would raise a loud siren alarm over that. =O