North Shore Updates

[officedweller]

From the North Shore News:

Park Royal considering apartments
Redevelopment plans could add multi-family towers to south mall

By James Weldon, North Shore News
March 11, 2011

The owners of Park Royal are weighing a major redevelopment of the mall's south side that could include new apartment blocks.

An executive at the West Vancouver shopping centre confirmed Monday that his company has hired an architectural firm to draw up plans that envision the return of movie theatres to the site, the expansion of retail space -- likely in a similar vein to the outdoor Village at Park Royal -- and the potential addition of multi-family dwellings.

"We've engaged Dialog (a design and engineering firm) to take a look at opportunities we may have to add some different elements here," said Park Royal vice-president Rick Amantea in an interview with the North Shore News. "We continue to tinker around with Park Royal to see if and how we can create more of a mixed-use environment."

Amantea said the residential component, if it went ahead, would be higher than three storeys, at least. Asked if it would be as high as 20 storeys -- as was suggested by one of the architects in a recent interview with other media -- Amantea did not rule out the possibility.

"There is certainly precedent all around us," he said. "The (complexes to the east) are 20 and 22 storeys high, I believe. Park Royal (Towers) to the west of us are probably 20 storeys high."

The mall will be approaching the Squamish Nation and District of West Vancouver in the near future with a preliminary plan, said Amantea. The majority of Park Royal's south mall lies on Squamish land, but a small sliver falls within the municipal boundary. "Depending on the reaction we get from both of those groups, we believe that some time in April we will be engaging the public in a full information kind of program. At that point in time, we'll share with them all of the plans we have currently on the table."

The news comes as the community grapples with other proposed apartment blocks in the Ambleside area, including plans for a tower on the Safeway site at Marine Drive and 17th Street and a tentative plan for a multi-family complex at Marine Drive and 13th Street.

While some of the proposed changes at Park Royal will likely involve tearing down and "regenerating" existing stores, the majority of the work will focus on "underperforming space" -- areas that aren't used for retail, such as parking lots, said Amantea.

Larco Investments, which owns Park Royal, has already done something similar at its Morgan Crossing site in south Surrey, he noted, where it put three storeys of residential space -- a total of more than 450 units -- on top of an outdoor shopping complex akin to the Village.

Creating a mixed-use complex at the site makes sense, said Amantea. There is adequate water, sewage and electrical infrastructure in the area to support it, and the ready proximity of transit and retail to the new residences would help reduce its impact on traffic over nearby Lions Gate Bridge.

Park Royal drew some criticism last year when it floated a proposal to remove a pedestrian overpass and a vehicle overpass that connect the two halves of the mall across Marine Drive and replace them with an at-grade intersection -- a change council eventually approved.

Amantea acknowledged that his company's support for that move was related to the larger plans under discussion here, and that it had made that fact clear to the district. "It was submitted to West Vancouver at the time when we talked about the intersection," he said. "We also referred in our traffic analysis to the accommodation of future residential (and commercial)."

Some of the new retail space will likely be taken up by large American chains that are looking to expand their presence in Canada, said Amantea. "Apple, Sephora, Restoration Hardware, Crate & Barrel, all of those people are looking at the Vancouver market right now," he said. "We have to see if there's a means and way to perhaps accommodate them."

The movie theatres are intended to meet a demand that has existed in the community since Park Royal Cinemas closed more than 10 years ago, he added.

Amantea emphasized, however, that all the plans are far from final. "Some of them are just really massing plans," he said. "Some of them will have other ideas incorporated into them; some of them may even have some elevations. . . . But nothing, certainly, is set in stone."

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© Copyright (c) North Shore News

[Smooth]

WRT The safeway site...
My old apartment overlooked that site and I always thought it was ripe for redevelopment. That Safeway is also one of the worst ones that I've been to. Its food selection is pathetic.

Also, looking at page 3 of that PDF document it looks like they've shown the waterfront with most of the homes removed and converted to park space.

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by Smooth

Also, looking at page 3 of that PDF document it looks like they've shown the waterfront with most of the homes removed and converted to park space.

Yes, it has been a longstanding policy of the Municipality of West Vancouver to buy all the homes along that strip to have them converted to park use. Eventually John Lawson Park will connect with Ambleside Park. I think they are still a couple years away from having everything assembled though.

[jozero]

The owners of Park Royal are weighing a major redevelopment of the mall's south side that could include new apartment blocks.

What are they going to do about the traffic gong show that is West Vancouver trying to get on the bridge? When I first moved here I was actually shocked West Vancouver was considered one of the desirable areas. Besides the nice homes way up on the hills, the actual community features seem incredibly lacking. The main thru fare and shopping areas look like something out of the 1950s.

One solution could be to expand the seabus system. Make it three points or four points, downtown, North Van, West Van, UBC.

[idunno]

Originally Posted by jozero

What are they going to do about the traffic gong show that is West Vancouver trying to get on the bridge?

Take a look at the project that's going on around the Lion's Gate Bridge ramps to the east of Park Royal. I think it's somewhere in this thread.

And yes Ambleside is somewhat lacking because it almost exclusively caters to old people living in apartments, but Dundarave to the west is much nicer. And the nicest homes in West Van are probably past Dundarave, not up in the properties I'd say.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by idunno

Take a look at the project that's going on around the Lion's Gate Bridge ramps to the east of Park Royal. I think it's somewhere in this thread.

And yes Ambleside is somewhat lacking because it almost exclusively caters to old people living in apartments, but Dundarave to the west is much nicer. And the nicest homes in West Van are probably past Dundarave, not up in the properties I'd say.

Being familiar with the area since birth (more or less) I'd reckon the nicest districts - not in any particular order- are: Gleneagles / Whytecliffe, Lower Caulfeild (around St. Francis-in-the-Woods Church), Upper Caulfeild (Clovelly Walk / Deer Lane) the Westmount Area around West Bay, and the waterfront from Lower Caulfeild, to about 25th St. Areas such as Mathers West of 31st are pretty wealthy too. The Properties is mostly New-Rich.
***
I have to admit though, although I'll never live in West Van again for numerous reasons, that I wonder how the [bleeeeeep] they are going to enlarge the North Shore on-ramp to the LG Bridge. That, and connecting to the Upper Levels Highway. The engineering involved and the $$$costs seem staggering, and prohibitive. If someone can do that with minimum environmental impact, (like blasting Taylor Way into a canyon and building a new, double-decker bridge), I'll buy them a martini.

[wrenegade]

Wow, I am surprised someone actually knows Clovelly Walk/Deer Lane, I literally grew up at that intersection (if you can call it that). The area has changed drastically in the past 4 or 5 years, I doubt you would recognize it trofirhen.

As for the Lions Gate, there isn't really anything West Van can do by itself to help the situation, apart from placing a cop at the corner of Taylor Way and Marine Drive to stop 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 from creeping into the intersection on the yellows and blocking it for northbound traffic. The project that is underway now won't change anything really for the ramps themselves except for buses. There will now be a transit priority lane and light at Taylor Way/Marine, and the HOV ramp will connect all the way up to the merge point at the beginning of the viaduct. The new North Van HOV lane will connect here as well. It should make it much much easier for buses to get on the bridge and improve travel times in peak periods by easily a couple minutes. I don't ever see the Seabus expanding to West Van because even in heavy traffic you can get from Park Royal to Burrard & Georgia at least as fast as the Seabus/Skytrain combo would get you there.

Many people view West Van as desirable because the entire community is south facing and it has historically had large lots, many of which have great views. I grew up there so I'm definitely biased, but I would much have a house in West Van over West Point Grey or something like that, even with dealing with the Lions Gate every day, but that's just me. Whether I'll ever be able to afford to move back who knows. My parents bought their house for $120k in the early 80s and West Van was a very different place then.

[wrenegade]

This was mentioned briefly in the SEFC & Olympic Village thread but it is probably more pertinent to post here.

Originally Posted by Vancouver Sun

West Vancouver's troubled Evelyn development is up for sale.

A Supreme Court order to place the property into receivership was made in December after the developer, Millennium Evelyn Properties Ltd., defaulted on a $72 million mortgage. Now creditors are awiting its sale to collect their debts. That court decision had been sealed until earlier this week.

The Sentinel Hill development has been appraised at $100 million, but David Bowra, president of the Bowra Group, the newly appointed receiver for the property, said he's not sure how much it will actually sell for.

"I have no idea what it's worth; it's worth what someone will pay for it," said Bowra.

"I mean, it's a big chunk of real estate and it's a lot of money. There are probably a fairly limited number of people who could acquire a piece of property like that. And it's not just acquiring the property, it's developing it as well."

The City of Vancouver, which is owed money from Millennium Development Corp.'s Olympic Village project, is listed as one of the charge holders against Evelyn, but Bowra couldn't confirm whether or not the city will receive any money.

"I don't know if they're actually owed money or if their mortgage has been assigned, but . . . there are a lot of other people who would have to get paid ahead of them," he said.

As for the buyers who have pre-purchased 31 of Evelyn's 109 condominium units, their money is safe in a lawyers' trust, according to Bowra. And while they're free to get it back, most of them appear to want to see the project through, he said.

"The vast majority . . . are still very interested in buying a unit in the development; I think the number I heard was 80 per cent," he said.

"I'd like to think in the next 30 to 60 days, we'll have some definitive news for them, one way or another."

The District of West Vancouver is also eager to see the long-awaited project get rolling.

"I think the receiver, his job will be to deal with the property very quickly, as quickly as possible. So that, I would say, bodes well for moving ahead," said Geri Boyle, manager of community planning for the municipality.

"The community worked hard to come up with an agreement working with a developer and I think they've been disappointed to see it sit as sort of a construction site for so long."

In response to Millennium's claims that municipal approvals took longer to achieve than anticipated and "land lenders lost patience with the long process," Boyle partially agreed.

"It was a complicated process, certainly getting through the zoning probably took longer than they anticipated," she said.

No building permits have been issued to date, but if a new developer were to buy the property they could proceed under the approved master plan.

Millennium Development Corp. is behind both the Evelyn Drive project and the Olympic Village development, which is also in receivership. The latter first ran into problems when its financial backer, Fortress Investment Group, pulled out in 2008 and was replaced by the City of Vancouver. The city has yet to recover its $740-million loan.

Read more: Vancouver Sun

[wrenegade]

13+Lonsdale Town Hall tonight

Tuesday, April 12, 2011
6:30pm to 8:30pm (presentations begin at 7:00pm)
Royal Canadian Legion 118 | 123 West 15th Street

Notice

[wrenegade]

Wesgroup has revised their plan from a 120' building to a slimmer 150' building. The overall density will remain the same, approximately 4.3ish FSR (if I remember correctly). The Town Hall meeting went well. It was busy, with standing room only, and most residents seemed pretty happy with the plan. I have to say that Wesgroup/NSCU is doing an excellent job on consulting with the community and trying to be as transparent as possible. A lot of people's comments or questions seemed to try and get more information about the upcoming Onni project, it is the one (with their 3 towers, 2 of which are 180') that most people are concerned about. Curiously, it seemed no one from Onni was at the Town Hall. I don't see this proposal having too many issues getting through City Hall.

[Pinion]

13+Lonsdale=Safeway site, right?

I just went to the Quattro development, aka the "Yaletown of Surrey," for the first time (wife's friend moved there from Langley). What a joke. It's still rural/single family housing across the street. Lonsdale=the new Yaletown.

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by Pinion

13+Lonsdale=Safeway site, right?

No. 13 + Lonsdale = Shell site (1250 Lonsdale).

Onni = Safeway site (1308 Lonsdale).

[Pinion]

Oh thanks. Don't they have to leave gas station lots alone for several years before development?

[paradigm4]

Originally Posted by Pinion

13+Lonsdale=Safeway site, right?

I just went to the Quattro development, aka the "Yaletown of Surrey," for the first time (wife's friend moved there from Langley). What a joke. It's still rural/single family housing across the street. Lonsdale=the new Yaletown.

Meh you're not thinking long term enough. Lonsdale is hardly Yaletown, but it does have its own nice character. North Van has a lot going for it.

Give Surrey the time that the North Shore has had.

[Pinion]

So, 100 years? Yeah, sounds about right.

I don't meant to bash Surrey though, I admire their ambition, but I am amazed at Lonsdale/Marine drive lately. Especially considering it was quiet before the 2008 economic crash.

[jozero]

Went by the pedestrian/bike bridge by 1st and McKay and it looks near complete. Its part of the Spirit trail and will go from 1st, over the CN tracks, and to the other side to connect with the trail again.

Here is the City of North Vancouver PDF page on it :
Link to PDF

[delboy]

Originally Posted by Pinion

So, 100 years? Yeah, sounds about right.

I don't meant to bash Surrey though, I admire their ambition, but I am amazed at Lonsdale/Marine drive lately. Especially considering it was quiet before the 2008 economic crash.

Having now lived in the lower lonsdale area for the past 2 years, I have become irritated at all the talk and no action of North Van City. Lower lonsdale is 🞵🞵🞵🞵, largely thrift stores and nail shops. The new quay is in a constant state of limbo, central lonsdale is an eyesore. I have also never seen so much trash and dog 🞵🞵🞵🞵 on the streets as I have here and complaints sent to city hall amounted to, "oh, well, too bad we do what we can".
And then there is the rain. I never really believed there was all that much difference till this year, especially since I work in South Surrey.

Lo Lo is most certainly not Yaletown.

I've bought an house in White Rock. I have not particulary enjoyed my two years on the North Shore.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by delboy

Having now lived in the lower lonsdale area for the past 2 years, I have become irritated at all the talk and no action of North Van City. Lower lonsdale is 🞵🞵🞵🞵, largely thrift stores and nail shops. The new quay is in a constant state of limbo, central lonsdale is an eyesore. I have also never seen so much trash and dog 🞵🞵🞵🞵 on the streets as I have here and complaints sent to city hall amounted to, "oh, well, too bad we do what we can".
And then there is the rain. I never really believed there was all that much difference till this year, especially since I work in South Surrey.

Lo Lo is most certainly not Yaletown.

I've bought an house in White Rock. I have not particulary enjoyed my two years on the North Shore.

Ouch. You're right though, having once worked there, one does really notice the increased "doom and gloom" on the North Shore compared to more southerly parts of Metro. Enjoy the new place in White Rock.

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by delboy

Having now lived in the lower lonsdale area for the past 2 years, I have become irritated at all the talk and no action of North Van City. Lower lonsdale is 🞵🞵🞵🞵, largely thrift stores and nail shops. The new quay is in a constant state of limbo, central lonsdale is an eyesore. I have also never seen so much trash and dog 🞵🞵🞵🞵 on the streets as I have here and complaints sent to city hall amounted to, "oh, well, too bad we do what we can".
And then there is the rain. I never really believed there was all that much difference till this year, especially since I work in South Surrey.

Lo Lo is most certainly not Yaletown.

I've bought an house in White Rock. I have not particulary enjoyed my two years on the North Shore.

The weather is better in South Surrey/White Rock, that is for sure, and having to do that commute every day can't be all that much fun. Saying Lower Lonsdale is 🞵🞵🞵🞵 is a bit harsh though, you can't expect it being something it's not. It has had pretty 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 retail for years now, at least most of the spaces are leased now. I don't really see it changing for at least another 3-5 years though, there still aren't enough people living down there and many of the existing buildings themselves are garbage. Oh, and the huge grade is a significant challenge for everyone. Generally speaking, hills kill retail. Look at Robson Street from Jervis to Nicola, it doesn't have much of anything, or South Granville from Broadway to 6th. West 4th is an exception, but it's Kits.

The population is still very mixed. There are quite a few seniors living in my building, and many people who have lived in the area for years and years, well before the Pier and well before the towers went up on West 1st. Yaletown basically had a blank slate to develop from, it was all industrial before. Lower Lonsdale is one of the oldest neighbourhoods in the whole city. As Moodyville it was the first area on the west coast north of San Francisco to having running electricity (seriously!). There are people living here who like it being a sleepy neighbourhood, just look at the opposition Intracorp had for both the Anavets redevelopment and the Versatile building. All they wanted was to go to 5 storeys instead of 4!

The area will change, slowly. As the area gets more built out and newer buildings bring more people and better retail space it will undoubtably improve. It was a shame that Pinnacle won the bid for the Pier lands as I'm sure any other developer would have done a better job, but it wasn't their fault nothing happened with the museum (although the waterfront restaurant is their fault). It will never be Yaletown though, but most people who want to live here are happy with that. A lot of people live on the North Shore because of everything else it has to offer, biking, hiking, skiing, all that outdoorsy 🞵🞵🞵🞵, not trendy restaurants and bars and tons of energy. I love the rainy winters because I know it's snowing in the mountains. I also grew up on the North Shore and have never lived anywhere else (except four years in Onterrible for school) so I'm probably used to it. Living at 4th though I wish there was a closer grocery store/drug store than the IGA/Shoppers, its a hell of a walk back up the hill in November when it's dark and rainy (summertime is different). It would also be nice if there were some decent bars and a couple more restaurants around. Hopefully some of the old cranky residents and owners (of the 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 commercial buildings) will move on soon and new owners/residents will be more welcoming of change. Hopefully the city does a similar thing on east 1st with their land as what happened on west 1st, but I think that's at least another 5-10 years away.

If you move to anywhere on the North Shore don't expect big changes to happen quickly, it is up and coming, but it's moving slowly to get there.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by delboy

Having now lived in the lower lonsdale area for the past 2 years, I have become irritated at all the talk and no action of North Van City. Lower lonsdale is 🞵🞵🞵🞵, largely thrift stores and nail shops. The new quay is in a constant state of limbo, central lonsdale is an eyesore. I have also never seen so much trash and dog 🞵🞵🞵🞵 on the streets as I have here and complaints sent to city hall amounted to, "oh, well, too bad we do what we can".
And then there is the rain. I never really believed there was all that much difference till this year, especially since I work in South Surrey.

Lo Lo is most certainly not Yaletown.

I've bought an house in White Rock. I have not particulary enjoyed my two years on the North Shore.

I fully agree that currently lower lonsdale retail is horrible and central lonsdale is ugly, but there's a lot happening recently. My street is going to be lined with new condos all the way to Lonsdale in a few years. Lonsdale and 13th is going to be beautiful. Marine drive has close to 10 great new condos coming. The old stuff will still be ugly, sure, but no different than the West End downtown.

Never noticed a problem with trash/dog 🞵🞵🞵🞵 though, honestly.

I find the rain in LL a lot better than my childhood home near the Capilano suspension bridge, that's for sure. But after just coming back from Santa Barbara, I can't stand Canadian weather in general - anywhere.