The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[thefishingnut]

Originally Posted by sjuser23

But why should someone in a 4000 sq foot mansion pay more taxes than a 1000 sq foot bungalow if they each have the same size lot and have the same services - street, lights, fire, police sidewalks, etc..?

For the same reason people with more income pay more income taxes than those with less. Every level of government takes more from the wealthy than the poor, because you can't take money from an empty pocket to pay for a new police station or water treatment facility. There is nothing fair about the tax system from the standpoint of pay for what you use...

[sjuser23]

Originally Posted by thefishingnut

For the same reason people with more income pay more income taxes than those with less. Every level of government takes more from the wealthy than the poor, because you can't take money from an empty pocket to pay for a new police station or water treatment facility. There is nothing fair about the tax system from the standpoint of pay for what you use...

Consumption taxes don't take income into consideration. Everyone pays the same rate like HST or amount, like gas taxes. Property taxes could be similar, each person or lot consumes the same resources so why not? Again, don't you think it could encourage development if you didn't have to pay more for developing your own property?

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

There are waterfront lots currently available in Millidgeville and other spots in the city, but yes they are more expensive than in Quispamsis. The same holds true for larger lots and private lots. If you want the same thing in the city it is more expensive which is the point I was making. Most people live in the Valley as they can afford more home or a step above what they would have in the city.

I'm not sure that's true. I'm currently shopping for a home and the KV market is astoundingly more expensive compared to most parts of the city, and you get fewer services. I just don't see it as a good value for a young homebuyer, and this is coming from someone who was a born and raised Rothesayite.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by kwajo

I'm not sure that's true. I'm currently shopping for a home and the KV market is astoundingly more expensive compared to most parts of the city, and you get fewer services. I just don't see it as a good value for a young homebuyer, and this is coming from someone who was a born and raised Rothesayite.

Most homes in the valley are much newer, larger, and in more desirable neighborhoods than the majority of inventory in the city. Thus they are more expensive. However if you look at comparable homes in Millidgeville, Drury Cove, etcc they are much more expensive in the city before you even take property taxes into consideration.

I am not talking about everyone, but many folks look at the home they could afford in the city, and decide they would rather live in Quispamsis where they can get a much nicer home. I don't blame them, but it is a financial decision for the most part.

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

Most homes in the valley are much newer, larger, and in more desirable neighborhoods than the majority of inventory in the city. Thus they are more expensive. However if you look at comparable homes in Millidgeville, Drury Cove, etcc they are much more expensive in the city before you even take property taxes into consideration.

I am not talking about everyone, but many folks look at the home they could afford in the city, and decide they would rather live in Quispamsis where they can get a much nicer home. I don't blame them, but it is a financial decision for the most part.

I see what you mean, but I do not consider a neighbourhood with no walkability, no cultural institutions, no transit, no water system, no architectural character and depressingly low density to be very desirable.

It all comes back to what thefishingbut said earlier, there are people who love the city and people who don't, and they're always going to have different ideas of what a desirable place to live is. The thing Saint John needs to do is stop worrying about those who want to move to KV and focus on building a true city that appeals to urban-minded individuals and families (there are millions of them out there). Both areas can thrive and succeed, but not through direct competition with each other, that's always going to be a dead-end.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by kwajo

I see what you mean, but I do not consider a neighbourhood with no walkability, no cultural institutions, no transit, no water system, no architectural character and depressingly low density to be very desirable.

It all comes back to what thefishingbut said earlier, there are people who love the city and people who don't, and they're always going to have different ideas of what a desirable place to live is. The thing Saint John needs to do is stop worrying about those who want to move to KV and focus on building a true city that appeals to urban-minded individuals and families (there are millions of them out there). Both areas can thrive and succeed, but not through direct competition with each other, that's always going to be a dead-end.

I am with you for the most part, we originally looked at the Valley to save some money but figured the commute, etc were not worth it.

[thefishingnut]

Originally Posted by sjuser23

Consumption taxes don't take income into consideration. Everyone pays the same rate like HST or amount, like gas taxes. Property taxes could be similar, each person or lot consumes the same resources so why not? Again, don't you think it could encourage development if you didn't have to pay more for developing your own property?

They essentially do take income into account, because if you're poor you're going to spend a couple of hundred dollars for a tv instead of a couple of thousand, and you're going to take the bus or drive a pos instead of driving a brand new SUV. Although the %'age is the same, the rich end up consuming a lot more than the poor, and thus pay more consumption tax in terms of $'s and cents.

I don't think property tax escalation has much to do with prohibiting development in the grand scheme of things. If I want to dish out $30k for a garage for example, frankly it's the $30k I'm worried about, and the extra $360 a year taxes aren't even a consideration.

I think your proposal would drastically affect first time home owners. An extra thousand or two a year to someone trying to get out of an apartment and into their first home is a lot of money. An extra thousand or two a year for someone who has the extra wealth to upgrade from a $300k home to a $500k home is relatively nothing. I think a lot of development is driven by first time homeowners - both for developing new stock, as well as providing buyers for people upgrading. I really think if you hindered first time home owners by having the same amount of tax on a starter home as versus a mansion, it would really drive housing starts down dramatically.

[nwalbert]

Some interesting turn of events with the Saint John Millrats. The team has committed to being back in the city but together with Halifax and has left the PBL. The rumours are that they are on the verge of join the NBA-DL or the NBA Development League. This would be a huge step up in the quality of the players and league as well as extending the season to 50 games.

This would be great for the city, but the franchise fee is $2.5M which makes financial sense under the current attendance numbers but would need to maintain those numbers. The team recieved tremendous support from around the provine this year and I think that moving to the NBA-DL would only help that since you would be seeing genuine NBA prospects.

[PersonPlaceorThing]

Does anyone know if the dodgey ferris wheel on the board walk is a permanent fixture? Is this part of the Coast Guard redevelopment?

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by PersonPlaceorThing

Does anyone know if the dodgey ferris wheel on the board walk is a permanent fixture? Is this part of the Coast Guard redevelopment?

Haven't a clue, I've been wondering why it's there for a few days now, but apparently it's been ok'd to be there until July

[dhottawa729]

Isn't the white plastic supposed to be coming off those Robertson Wharf apartments now? I'm curious to see what it's going to look like! I hope they modernized it.

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by PersonPlaceorThing

Does anyone know if the dodgey ferris wheel on the board walk is a permanent fixture? Is this part of the Coast Guard redevelopment?

Dodgey eh? I think thats an understatement. It looks like a death trap to me. Complete with missing seats. It's quite an eyesore.

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

Isn't the white plastic supposed to be coming off those Robertson Wharf apartments now? I'm curious to see what it's going to look like! I hope they modernized it.

Robertsons Wharf is the VERY expresinve condo development next door.
You are referring to Harbourside Apartments - And I see they have 1 complete side down of the white plastic down. Hardly even finished. The side that's showing looks pretty bad at the moment.

[kwajo]

Yeah the wrap from the scaffolding was clearly removed pre-maturely to quell angst from the residents in the local media. The building cladding is nowhere near finished.

[sjuser23]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Haven't a clue, I've been wondering why it's there for a few days now, but apparently it's been ok'd to be there until July

Hardman Group who operates Market Square put it there to gauge reaction and interest of it operating for the summer. They might have it running 7 days a week for $2 a ride if SJ citizens express interest in it. The idea is to attract people to market square like it was intended, a family type activity location.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Yeah the wrap from the scaffolding was clearly removed pre-maturely to quell angst from the residents in the local media. The building cladding is nowhere near finished.

They're paying very low rent on waterfront apartments in uptown Saint John. Last thing they should be doing is complaining.

[flwright]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Yeah the wrap from the scaffolding was clearly removed pre-maturely to quell angst from the residents in the local media. The building cladding is nowhere near finished.

Nope. The final step of installing the metal cladding simply cannot occur because of the struts anchoring the scaffolding to the building. Also, the temperature-sensitive work (brick) is complete and no longer needs to be heated. The facade is otherwise complete what with the windows, brick and insulation (the major components of the project) being completely installed. Although it looks rough and unfinished, within 2-3 weeks that facade will be nearly complete.

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by michael_d40

Dodgey eh? I think thats an understatement. It looks like a death trap to me. Complete with missing seats. It's quite an eyesore.

Updated to include a pic - haha.




Something a little easier on the eyes.

[dhottawa729]

Originally Posted by michael_d40

Updated to include a pic - haha.

That is pathetic. I hope they get rid of it soon before the tourists start visiting! I'm embarrassed.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

That is pathetic. I hope they get rid of it soon before the tourists start visiting! I'm embarrassed.

LOL. It is definitely a good idea to add something for tourists in that location, but yeah, very bad execution on this one. Hopefully someone realizes how quickly what a bad idea this is.

The Harbourfront condos look awesome, I will need to take a drive by.