[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[someone123]

Originally Posted by midasmull

He's indicated earlier that while the convention center is his Plan A for the site, Plans B & C carry less risk and more profit. (AllNS - Nov. 9, 2010)

Seems like an odd claim. He's doing this out of the goodness of his heart or something?

[halifaxboyns]

Just watching the live vote now (great I have today off). Everyone in all the opposition parties appears to be in the house today...they are just counting of the 'nays'.

[halifaxboyns]

...and the non-confidence motion has passed, we are off to the polls!

[resetcbu1]

damn, this is terrible news for development in halifax in my opinion and anywhere in canada waiting on any type of funding . I just hope Raima will hold off for a little while?
Either way I am furious that the opposition would force this election, I highly doubt most canadians support or want an election.

[q12]

What will the election accomplish? Nothing. Oh wait more wasted money and nothing to show for it. Sometimes I wish we had fixed 4 year federal elections like the U.S.A. so atleast you knew when it was coming and it didn't %&@ up major development projects.

I'm optimistic that the importance of this project is not lost and we can get it extended till after the election.

[Phalanx]

Er, we do have fixed election dates. It's one of the first things that Harper did after becoming PM. The first week of October every 4 years. It's not the election panacea that it's billed as because it just replaces one problem - the ability to call elections at will - with another - the never ending campaign cycle and hyper-partisanship that we see across our southern border.

That said, our system still allows for minority governments, and minority governments can collapse. That can and will continue to happen regardless, especially when a party tries to govern as a majority when it only has a minority.

Don't blame the opposition parties for killing the Nova Centre. It's not as though they set out to have an election just to kill one project that barely registers on anyone's radar in Ottawa. There are many other issues at play. You could be just as upset with the Conservatives for not committing any time in the last several weeks when they had had "...a very strong case" presented to them with the threat of an election looming. Instead they held off for what is effectively a win-win situation for them. They get to blame not funding it on the opposition to win over the pro-CC crowd, and they have a back door to not funding it which negates any negativity from the anti-CC crowd.

Anyway, every level of government from the municipal level on up deserves some share of blame in having this thing delayed.

[q12]

CBC news is reporting this election will cost $300 million dollars. That could have funded a bunch of convention centres. I will blame the opposition for wasting my tax dollars and potentially killing our convention centre.

Forcing an election should only be in extreme situations. I don't think most people understand why an election was called.

Anyways I'm still going be optimistic that this CC is not dead because of the election.

[Phalanx]

$300M is expensive, but won't affect the funding for the Convention Centre either way. That's based on its business case.

A minority government is obliged to work with the opposition parties by virtue of the fact that they do not represent the majority of all Canadians. They simply have the largest segment of the population. (well, broadly speaking without true proportional representation, anyway) That's how a minority government is supposed to work. The simple fact is that the current Conservative government has refused every opportunity to work with the opposition parties, and instead has chosen to bully their way through. It worked because of the relative weakness of the other parties, and the fact that, yes, we've had a lot of elections in the last few years. The flip side of this is that, by continuing to simply go along with the Conservative position, they weakened their own position - this could only be allowed to continue so far. Minority governments inevitably fall when they fail to work with the opposition. The Conservatives brought this upon themselves - if not now, then it was just a matter of time. That it happened now is, yes, very inconvenient for those of us hoping to see the Nova Centre funding go through in a timely manner.

All of that said... The federal government has had this sitting in their laps for months now (since December at least), and they've failed to move an inch despite, again, '...a very strong case'. They're as much to blame as anyone in this.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

All of that said... The federal government has had this sitting in their laps for months now (since December at least), and they've failed to move an inch despite, again, '...a very strong case'. They're as much to blame as anyone in this.

Well said. I think most people agree this election is unwanted and is a waste. Personally, I would love to have seen the PC's taken to task for not disclosing things (and probably out right lying) - but I don't think it was worth forcing an election. If there was a way to do it, without an election, that would've been my suggestion for the course to take. That being said, the PC's had this in hand for months and should've 'gotten off the pot' and made a call.

I too am remaining optimistic because there are so many different parts to the equation. The developer could sell that land to someone, who could decide to wait, he could go ahead with something else, the city/province could try to do it all themselves - who knows!?

All we can do is wait and see.

[Copes]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

A minority government is obliged to work with the opposition parties by virtue of the fact that they do not represent the majority of all Canadians. They simply have the largest segment of the population. (well, broadly speaking without true proportional representation, anyway) That's how a minority government is supposed to work. The simple fact is that the current Conservative government has refused every opportunity to work with the opposition parties, and instead has chosen to bully their way through. It worked because of the relative weakness of the other parties, and the fact that, yes, we've had a lot of elections in the last few years. The flip side of this is that, by continuing to simply go along with the Conservative position, they weakened their own position - this could only be allowed to continue so far. Minority governments inevitably fall when they fail to work with the opposition. The Conservatives brought this upon themselves - if not now, then it was just a matter of time. That it happened now is, yes, very inconvenient for those of us hoping to see the Nova Centre funding go through in a timely manner.

^This

Its a shame the convention center is further delayed, but to be honest, I don't understand why its taken this long to get the go-ahead in the first place.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Copes

^This

Its a shame the convention center is further delayed, but to be honest, I don't understand why its taken this long to get the go-ahead in the first place.

Easy. NDP provincial govt, NDP federal riding of Halifax, Liberal federal riding of Dartmouth, only federal Tory ridings are out in the rural areas and they do not support fed money going to Halifax. Add to that an inept and perhaps disgraced Mayor along with lots of the usual local naysayers who oppose the project and you have a recipe for zero federal funding.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Given that the election is only a month away, I would assume that the province and Ramia will be waiting until after for the go ahead.

I think it will proceed regardless of what happens in the local riding.

[q12]

http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/local/article/820485--mayor-stands-ground-after-his-city-address

Mayor stands ground after his city address
Kelly also expects a decision on federal funding for convention centre after the federal election

I think this is good news. I feel fairly confident (80-90%) this will be given the go ahead after the election. This project is too important to the downtown for it to fail.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Yes, and let's be honest here... its not even that expensive from an municipal and provincial level. The amount the feds will be chipping in isn't a drop in the bucket as compared to other things they fund.

The whole cost argument is totally illegitimate with regards to this project when the local levels of government are dropping 40 million here and 10 million there on all of these other projects that have no ROI other than a social one.

If the trade centre and NFLD powercable happen, NS will be much better positioned to take advantage of FDI and the like.

[fenwick16]

I believe Joe Ramia's deadline for the Nova Centre was April 14th. Has anyone heard anything about an extension or will we have to wait until after the May 2nd election to find out?

[sdm]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I believe Joe Ramia's deadline for the Nova Centre was April 14th. Has anyone heard anything about an extension or will we have to wait until after the May 2nd election to find out?

I believe there was something on CTV news last night that said the deadline might have been extended and that minister estrabrooks is planning to meet with the new minister responsible for funding as soon as the new government sits.

Surprised the local media did little coverage knowing the date was expiring today.

[sdm]

Trade centre cost may rise
Rank Inc.’s Plan B, Plan C still on the table for Argyle Street site Estabrooks looking forward to renewing talks with whatever federal government is formed May 2

ALEX BOUTILIER
METRO HALIFAX
Published: April 19, 2011 12:40 a.m.
Last modified: April 19, 2011 3:04 a.m.

A second missed deadline may push the proposed downtown convention centre’s price tag higher.

Developer Joe Ramia and the Department of Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal are back at the negotiating table after a 90-day extension to lock down a deal with the federal government lapsed.

Yesterday, Ramia told Metro he sent back the original cost estimates for re-evaluation.

“We’ve got contractors and stuff like that that are working on it,” he said. “They have to come back and say, ‘Look, here’s the price we gave you, and ... here’s the price today.’”

Ramia originally agreed to hold the price at $159 million until Jan. 15. The deadline came and went, with no commitment from the federal government to kick in a requested $47-million share.

The developer agreed to extend the deadline for 90 days until April 15. The fall of the Conservative government on March 25, however, meant no funding commitments could be made until the end of the election campaign.

Ramia said the process will take at least a couple of weeks. He also said he’s considering a cut-off date, when Rank Inc. will begin proceeding with one of two alternative plans for the downtown site.

“Our intention is to focus on Plan A, which is a convention centre,” he said. “But, you know, you always have to look at your options and see what’s there.”

Bill Estabrooks, the minister responsible for the convention centre file, said the province will have to look at any new price “very thoroughly.”

When asked if the re-evaluation concerns him, Estabrooks said it is part of the process.

“(Ramia) is a businessman, and he has a bottom line, and we have to be appreciative of those particular details. And we’ll see.”

More about Halifax Convention Centre

[sdm]

Estabrooks still hoping to get convention centre off the ground

By ROGER TAYLOR Business Columnist
Tue, Apr 19 - 7:34 AM

Bill Estabrooks is still determined to have the proposed convention centre built in downtown Halifax, even though the supposed deadline to have financing in place has passed.

Estabrooks, the provincial transportation and infrastructure renewal minister, says the $159-million convention centre is an important piece of infrastructure for Halifax and the region and he will be ready to meet with the new federal minister after the election to get the project back on track.

"I have an obligation, as the infrastructure minister, to be available on a moment’s notice to go to Ottawa or to meet with whoever the new minister wants to delegate those responsibilities to. I’m positive," Estabrooks told me in a phone conversation Monday.

"I think we’re very fortunate to have a partner like Joe Ramia, but it’s something we need and it’s something we’re going to get."

Ramia heads Rank Inc., the development company that won the competition back in 2009 to build the convention centre.

The federal election made meeting Rank’s April 15 deadline for a final decision on government financing moot because the Conservative government failed to sign on before it lost power in a confidence vote March 25.

But it is clear Halifax Regional Municipality and the province are still determined to keep the dream alive. The convention centre is the publicly funded part of a much larger development that includes a hotel, a financial office tower, retail space and apartments.

The total project, estimated to be worth $500 million, is expected to inject enough in new property taxes to offset the municipality’s share of the convention centre cost. Through payroll and sales taxes, the province is projected to generate more than enough revenue to compensate for its role in the project.

The province has obviously asked the developer for an extension, although Estabrooks would not reveal how much additional time it has requested.

Since the original price for the convention centre was negotiated, the cost for petroleum has climbed dramatically. Steel and other components in the building process have also increased in price. So it is expected the cost of the project will rise as a result of the delay.

"I have confidence in the fact that based on our experience, my experience with Mr. Ramia thus far, that we will continue the project," Estabrooks said. "He, of course, as a business person, he’s going to look carefully again at the numbers and that’s going to be part of the negotiations.

"It’s important we look at whatever changes are made. In addition to that, of course, the federal government has to be a continuing partner."

When contacted Monday, Ramia would only say: "We’re negotiating and we’ll see what happens."

Estabrooks says the process has been a challenge since he took on the convention centre project on July 19 last year. But he insists it has "huge merit" and is badly needed.

A well-organized vocal minority opposed to the convention centre has helped to make it an election issue, admits Estabrooks.

"That hasn’t helped the process, but we’ve got to get beyond that, and more importantly, we’ve got to make sure, come the federal election, regardless of the results, that we’re going to pursue this."

No matter which party wins the federal election, he says, Ottawa will be looking at providing a much-needed boost to the regional economy and "this is a great way to make it happen after the election results on May 2."

( [email protected])

[q12]

City budget balanced without raising taxes

http://www.news957.com/news/article/214741--city-budget-balanced-without-raising-taxes

Amy Arts Apr 19, 2011 16:39:52 PM

A balanced budget was presented to City Council Tuesday afternoon. HRM's Chief Administrative Officer Richard Butts is calling it a good news budget.

"We were successful in maintaining a flat tax rate," Butts says. "It was unnecessary to reduce capital from operating. In fact, we increased capital from operating. We did achieve service efficiencies in an amount greater than $3 million."

Those service efficiencies include a 20% reduction in overtime pay-outs. The overall budget allows $145 million in capital spending and $758 million for operating costs. This includes money for the skating oval and year one funding for the convention centre.

Budget debates begin next week and will run until May 2.

This is good news, now all the whiners posting comments in the Herald article above today about taxes increasing due to the Convention Centre can eat their own words.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by q12

This is good news, now all the whiners posting comments in the Herald article above today about taxes increasing due to the Convention Centre can eat their own words.

This was an interesting comment below (interesting as in bizzare):

Ramia "He, of course, is a business person..."

Joe Ramia has done his due diligence, prepared a business case and has the support of his creditors and shareholders. On the public side, we don't have business people looking out for the taxpayers interests. We have politicians looking to build "legacy" assets (code for "money losing"). For over a year taxpayers have been demanding to know what the ongoing effect will be on provincial & HRM budgets and OUR taxes. So far, these requests have been responded to by stonewalling, a concerted PR spin by Trade Centre and name calling on web blogs (nay-sayer, anti-progess, etc ~ about to start on this comment board in a few minutes . With no federal party announcing funding for the Convention Centre during the election, this dead horse is.....dead. This type of dishonest public process only weakens the public's faith in open and transparent Govt. The CH should get over its sentimentality about the hole where their building used to be and demand that taxpayers be shown what this is going to cost to subsidize every year.

I didn't know that these naysayers were so sensitive to the opinions of web bloggers.

I even got criticized by taob1 for mentioning a stadium at the Wanderers Grounds a few months ago (they have long memories, also). I think taob1 is the one who bragged about stopping the Commonwealth Games and plans to stop the stadium and convention centre also. Apparently these are powerful people . They can do all this just by posting comments in the Chronicle Herald. I keep expecting them to start posting on skyscraperpage

PS: regarding the other story posted by q12 - http://www.news957.com/news/article/214741 , I am a bit confused by CAO Richard Butts' comment - "This includes money for the skating oval and year one funding for the convention centre." . I thought that no payment would be due on the convention centre until early 2015?