Highways in Canada

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Generally, it's better to have truck traffic skirt the periphery of a city. Lots of traffic is just passing through, and if it isn't, truck warehouses aren't usually located downtown anyway. Trucks go to their warehouse, and then smaller vehicles usually redistribute goods to points within the city.

That by-pass north of Thunder Bay looks like a good idea. Cross country traffic doesn't need to detour into Thunder Bay, Thunder Bay is spared congestion, and the city is still linked to the Trans-Canada Highway.

I strongly favour a Thunder Bay through route:

1) The traffic volumes are greater in the area, so improving the road network there kills two birds with one stone. That would allow for a 4-lane freeway instead of two 2-lane highways.

2) Distant bypassing traffic hurts greatly the local economies of communities along the highways in and out of Thunder Bay.

3) It would not solve anything for trucks coming in and out of Thunder Bay.

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by vid

They don't support the parts of Ontario adjacent to Manitoba, what makes you think they'll support Manitoba, too?

Ah yes, entirely wishful thinking on my part I know. Damn you SO, damn you! *shakes fist with vigor*

[haljackey]

Highway 401 at Weston Road. Between Weston Road and Highway 400 lies North America's busiest section of highway with 437,400 AADT (average number of cars per day) as of 2007, and 506,200 during the summer months. I am leaning to the fact that it's the busiest in the world.


(by James Bancroft)

[MolsonExport]

^in that stretch, the highway is broader than most city blocks are in length.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Highway 401 at Weston Road. Between Weston Road and Highway 400 lies North America's busiest section of highway with 437,400 AADT (average number of cars per day) as of 2007, and 506,200 during the summer months. I am leaning to the fact that it's the busiest in the world.

If Toronto had/ever do extended the 400/Black Creek Drive down to the Gardiner it would greatly alleviate the amount of traffic in that area of the 401!

Commuters either have to backtrack on the 401 to either the 427 or DVP to get downtown. Toronto's expressway was piss poorly executed and it looks like the same is going to happen with transit too.

Hopefully they get their act together sooner than later.

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

If Toronto had/ever do extended the 400/Black Creek Drive down to the Gardiner it would greatly alleviate the amount of traffic in that area of the 401!

Commuters either have to backtrack on the 401 to either the 427 or DVP to get downtown. Toronto's expressway was piss poorly executed and it looks like the same is going to happen with transit too.

Hopefully they get their act together sooner than later.

Toronto's highway network is actually quite good in the way that there are many of them to transport people, yet not many of them actually take away from the feel of the city itself.

There's a reason the Spadina Expressway was scrapped, which would have done exactly what you're saying.. It would have ripped right through the Annex and Downtown Toronto, and we would have become Detroit, it's terrible. I'm 100% glad they scrapped it, and people shouldn't be driving into Downtown in numbers like that anyways.

It was executed quite fine, and transit was going to be, before Mr. Gravy Train mayor scrapped the good transit plan in place of one that costs more money and serves less people (which is somehow cutting wasteful spending).

[le calmar]

Highway 410 in Sherbrooke (aka my hometown) is currently being extended so it will surround 75% of the city in 2014. Bishop's University and the borough of Lennoxville will finally get an access to the highway system.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

Toronto's highway network is actually quite good in the way that there are many of them to transport people, yet not many of them actually take away from the feel of the city itself.

There's a reason the Spadina Expressway was scrapped, which would have done exactly what you're saying.. It would have ripped right through the Annex and Downtown Toronto, and we would have become Detroit, it's terrible. I'm 100% glad they scrapped it, and people shouldn't be driving into Downtown in numbers like that anyways.

It was executed quite fine, and transit was going to be, before Mr. Gravy Train mayor scrapped the good transit plan in place of one that costs more money and serves less people (which is somehow cutting wasteful spending).

I concur. .

[whiteford]

the calgary project is awsome.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

Toronto's highway network is actually quite good in the way that there are many of them to transport people, yet not many of them actually take away from the feel of the city itself.

There's a reason the Spadina Expressway was scrapped, which would have done exactly what you're saying.. It would have ripped right through the Annex and Downtown Toronto, and we would have become Detroit, it's terrible. I'm 100% glad they scrapped it, and people shouldn't be driving into Downtown in numbers like that anyways.

It was executed quite fine, and transit was going to be, before Mr. Gravy Train mayor scrapped the good transit plan in place of one that costs more money and serves less people (which is somehow cutting wasteful spending).

I agree Spadina was a terrible idea that was done moreless to service Yorkdale Mall. It would have required 100s more homes & business destroyed, cut through parklands and cultural areas, dumped 10,000s of cars into the downtown like it does on Eglinton. If only they hadn't wasted 10s of millions on it and directed to other roads or public transit!

Atleast with Black Creek the city owns the ROW and it still can expand it to an expressway if it had to (politically suicidal tho). As well Black Creek-400 would be a good bookend of a expressway similar to DVP-404 connecting. I've seen plans to either tunnel it under Georgetown GO line or overtop via viaduct to the Gardiner. It would be tolled so it could pay for itself and help fund future transit projects!

IMO you have to have a balanced approach to transit, that consists of both freeways & public transit. However in Toronto any mention of freeways draws out Spadina similarities (whether real or perceived) that end that discussion quickly and public transit plans are as stable as the government proposing them (Network 2011, Eglinton West, Transit City). Therefore nothing changes, more people having to use the same roads & transit system that existed 30 years ago!

[eemy]

With the dispersal of employment across the GTA, I don't think a new expressway downtown is necessary. Those people who can't put up with the commute should move or consider other options. Those people who can would probably just end up moving further into the urban fringe anyway if the option were available. And congestion on the highway would be just as bad as every other highway within a year or two. The negative effects it would have on the transit system (especially the GO Barrie line) and local neighbourhoods is just not worth it.

We don't have to make it feasible for every single person living within 50 km of downtown Toronto to be able to get there in under an hour. There are plenty of areas that allow short commutes already. Those people who need to work downtown should consider looking for houses in those areas instead. Or put up with the commute. You can't always have the best of both worlds.

[vid]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

I strongly favour a Thunder Bay through route:

1) The traffic volumes are greater in the area, so improving the road network there kills two birds with one stone. That would allow for a 4-lane freeway instead of two 2-lane highways.

2) Distant bypassing traffic hurts greatly the local economies of communities along the highways in and out of Thunder Bay.

3) It would not solve anything for trucks coming in and out of Thunder Bay.

1) Part of the opposition to closing Highway 102 for residents is coming from people living on Carl and Blucher, which run parallel to the TB Expressway south of the 102 turn-off. They don't mind the highway in their back yard (they knew it was there before moving to the area), but they don't want the noise to get any worse than it has. There is no sound barrier between the road and their houses, and the short distances means trucks are gearing up then instantly gearing down and breaking on the stretch so it's quite loud; I grew up three blocks away and still have trouble sleeping in silence because I was so used to the loud noise from the trucks. With about 30,000 AADT on that stretch, which is about 1,150m long, I don't think people living nearby want to see any kind of increase until something is done to mitigate the noise and pollution. In retrospect, we shouldn't have built so much stuff along Dawson and Arthur. Stupidly, there are people saying we should start building along the Harbour Extension now. The city actually zoned large tracts of land along it as industrial for that purpose.

2) The 102 already diverts traffic out of Kakabeka Falls and Rosslyn as well as Thunder Bay's south end, but they're doing fine. If the bypass is built through the northern edge of Thunder Bay to simply avoid the existing residential areas, it wouldn't be much of an issue. Thunder Bay will still be very close. The more distant a by-pass gets, the more wasteful the investments in the 11-17 east of Thunder Bay look, since they're so close to the city itself. Having a new highway split off just west of the Current River and going through the northern part of McIntyre Ward would be the best solution, I think.

3) Trucks going in an out of the built up area don't have many problems getting around these days. With Water Street bypassing and connecting downtown Port Arthur to Fort William Road, and the Harbour Expressway connecting the TB Expressway to Fort William Road and the Harbour, there really isn't much that could be done to improve things other than building interchanges. Transports flow through the city itself quite efficiently, it's just annoying to have to share the roads with them. There is a desire to ban trucks from Hodder Avenue as well, but I don't think it will happen, especially since industry along the Port Arthur side of the waterfront is almost entirely gone now. There is a by-pass planned for the area but at this point it probably won't happen; there isn't enough demand anymore.

[Andrewjm3D]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

If Toronto had/ever do extended the 400/Black Creek Drive down to the Gardiner it would greatly alleviate the amount of traffic in that area of the 401!

Urban advocates including Jane Jacobs stopped that from happening thank god. We need better transit to get people off the roads. Not more roads to speed up traffic. One more highway connection will do very little in the long run as the city grows.

[Pimpmasterdac]

I agree with both of you andrew and jeremy that Toronto needs a better public transit system. The current system is beyond capacity and needs to have more routes to under serviced parts of Toronto! The problem is transit plans are reliable on the local/provincial governments that change them on the whims of each change of power.

With the current plan Ford & McGuinty are implementing, I'm not sure why they're going to make Eglinton a LRT if the majority is going to be underground? Why not just make it a proper Subway at that rate, better capacity and quicker speeds

But transportation planning needs to be more than just public transit. Not everyone CAN live in downtown Toronto (high price of housing) and need to commute to work. The 2 proposed freeways I've read about, Black Creek to Gardiner and a Scarborough Expressway via Gateneau hydro corridor, don't require major expropriations like Spadina, use corridors that that the ROW isn't limited and help activate traffic off DVP and 427, and would be tolled to fund their construction and that of public transit!

Win-win for everyone, balanced system of transportation, better investments for both modes of transportation.

[Andrewjm3D]

The Ford plan has greatly reduced transit improvements for most of the city. Hopefully in 3 years our new mayor will get things (TransitCity) back on track.

Elect John Tory 2014!

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

I agree Spadina was a terrible idea that was done moreless to service Yorkdale Mall. It would have required 100s more homes & business destroyed, cut through parklands and cultural areas, dumped 10,000s of cars into the downtown like it does on Eglinton. If only they hadn't wasted 10s of millions on it and directed to other roads or public transit!

Atleast with Black Creek the city owns the ROW and it still can expand it to an expressway if it had to (politically suicidal tho). As well Black Creek-400 would be a good bookend of a expressway similar to DVP-404 connecting. I've seen plans to either tunnel it under Georgetown GO line or overtop via viaduct to the Gardiner. It would be tolled so it could pay for itself and help fund future transit projects!

IMO you have to have a balanced approach to transit, that consists of both freeways & public transit. However in Toronto any mention of freeways draws out Spadina similarities (whether real or perceived) that end that discussion quickly and public transit plans are as stable as the government proposing them (Network 2011, Eglinton West, Transit City). Therefore nothing changes, more people having to use the same roads & transit system that existed 30 years ago!

The 400 extension I think is a reasonable plan, but I would make it similar to Interstate 66 in northern Virginia and make it HOV-only, at least during peak periods, to make it manageable traffic wise as only a 4-lane freeway and to give carpools an incentive. There is only enough ROW for 4 lanes easily without breaking communities.

Something like this:

*Commercial vehicles, excluding buses, would be banned south of Highway 401 at all times of day.
*During the morning rush hour (6 am to 10 am) and the afternoon rush hour (3 pm to 7 pm) Monday to Friday (excluding statutory holidays), it would have a HOV-3 requirement in both directions.
*On Friday afternoons from May 1 to October 31, it would have a HOV-3 requirement in the northbound direction from 12 noon until 12 midnight.
*On Sundays and statutory holidays from May 1 to October 31, it would have a HOV-3 requirement in the southbound direction from 12 noon until 12 midnight.
*Variable message signs can also proclaim additional restrictions based on traffic flows.

[Echoes]

Live web cam of construction of the Circle Drive South Bridge in Saskatoon, the final installment of the city's ring road.

http://circledrive.ca/

In total, the project includes a new 6 lane bridge, 7 km of freeway, and five new interchanges.

[MolsonExport]

^cool. unfortunately only one cam is operational. Seems like a huge project for a city the size of Stoon.

[Echoes]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

^cool. unfortunately only one cam is operational. Seems like a huge project for a city the size of Stoon.

You bet. In fact, it's the largest single project in the city's history with a price tag of $272.5 million. Surprisingly, the winning bid of the design/build contract issued by the City of Saskatoon came in well below the projected cost. I can't remember exactly how much, but it was in the tens of millions (this was at the height of the recession and contending firms were in a bidding war for the work). With the savings, the City was able to add a fifth interchange to the project.

Here's an image of most of the project (that 5th interchange is not shown, it is to the east of the image):


For more images, renderings, and information on the project:
http://www.saskatoon.ca/DEPARTMENTS/Infr...nning/Pages/CircleDriveSouthProject.aspx

And, as if a south bridge isn't enough, the need has been identified for an additional bridge in Saskatoon's north end. The North Bridge would form part of the Perimeter Highway corridor proposed by the Ministry of Highways. The Perimeter Highway project has no funding commitments or an established timeline at this point, but its cost is estimated at about $1 billion (IIRC).

Political support among City Council seems to be slowly mounting for the construction of the North Bridge as a starting point for the project and as relief for congestion in that area (a large portion of the city's residential growth is happening in its NE sector).

More on the proposed North Bridge and Perimeter Highway:
http://www.saskatoon.ca/DEPARTMENTS/Infr...anning/Pages/TransportationPlanning.aspx

[craner]

Wow this is great - first I've heard of the Circle Drive expansion in Saskatoon.