Olympic Village & Southeast False Creek Updates Discussion

[ablefire]

Thank you sacrifice333.

[flight_from_kamakura]

looks like $40-50 million bones eaten by the city. pretty tough. blame sullivan/rogers for the bad diligence, the millenium bros for over-ambition (and over-leveraging), the slide in wealth among potential speculators/investors, and maybe robertson/ballem for taking it on instead of just letting it sink (which in retrospect, could well have been the best course of action). intuitively, i'm guessing that this will be something dealt with in 2012.

...
The Olympic village will have a shortfall of between $40-50 million after all the units are sold and the construction loan paid off, Vancouver officials estimated Friday.

That shortfall is the first concrete confirmation that the city is unlikely to recover all of the $578 million it is still owed by the former owner, Millennium Developments.

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Van...pic+Village+shortfall/4584930/story.html

[ablefire]

If a $40-50 million loss on $578M is the full extent of it, and I very much doubt that it is, then it's a huge success. A 10% haircut on a white elephant balanced on a bridge of errors undermined by the global credit crunch would be a miracle.

[jlousa]

Why blame Rogers/Sullivan, and not Senator Campbell? Think it's easy to estimate that current councils push to LEED platinum at the last minute and the bad press they branded about, cost the city more then a few dollarsas well, as does having hundreds of the rental units empty months for months after the fact.
This is a sad situation that could've been almost completely avoided were it not for politics.

[whatnext]

I hope Larry Campbell's unit is one of the leakers - poetic justice!

[flight_from_kamakura]

blame campbell too.

[flight_from_kamakura]

and blame penny ballem, according to gary mason:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nati...e-230-million-and-rising/article1981177/

as usual, francis bula has a more rigorous take. http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized...ium-assets-taken-over-and-receiver-fees/ seriously, why does the globe even have mason on staff?

[johnjimbc]

Second what jlousa said. The negative politics on this, to which Gregor and company eagerly contributed, really destroyed the perception of the village at a critical time. And I say that as someone who doesn't dislike Gregor as many do.

I think there is plenty of blame to go around, but I would not hold them blameless.

Also, as unpopular as this opinion may be to some, the $40 - $50M loss, if that ends up being the figure, represents an amazingly good investment value. In one large project, Vancouver transformed the entire Southeast False creek area. And in doing so, the city has created a new tax base that will yield benefits to the city ongoing.

Just the infrastructure alone (roads, utilities, parks) would have been necessary to develop that area. Investments that might have taken decades to come to fruition, even in a booming city such as Vancouver, were accomplished in just a few short years. By injecting the boost now, it has already spurred major investment in the surrounding plots of land. That's pretty remarkable given the global slowdown of the past several years.

Cities thrive and grow because of these types of major investments.

It makes for good political fodder now, but thirty years from now all anyone will know is that during this time the false creek area emerged as the thriving center of a major metropolis.

That's how I see it, anyhow. I've seen cities spend far more for less tangible benefit. The OV seems like a wise investment by comparison.

[quobobo]

Originally Posted by johnjimbc

Also, as unpopular as this opinion may be to some, the $40 - $50M loss, if that ends up being the figure, represents an amazingly good investment value.

I really can't agree with that. There's no shortage of developers who could have stepped in and built similar condos in the area, without costing the public purse anything.

It's not a good investment if someone else would have gladly footed the bill.

[wrenegade]

Edit, it's much worse than I originally thought. Turns out many of Millennium's pledged assets were levered to the hilt and some are underwater now. Probably should have done some due diligence. The city really fucked this one, in so many ways.

[SFUVancouver]

An excavator and pneumatic shoring drill are on site at Wall Centre False Creek's western parcel of land. That's a very good sign that construction is imminent.

[golog]

Originally Posted by awvan

Edit, it's much worse than I originally thought. Turns out many of Millennium's pledged assets were levered to the hilt and some are underwater now. Probably should have done some due diligence. The city really fucked this one, in so many ways.

so do you think city council should hold on to them and hope for prices to go up enough that it covers the mortgage costs in the end?

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

An excavator and pneumatic shoring drill are on site at Wall Centre False Creek's western parcel of land. That's a very good sign that construction is imminent.

awesome news! thanks for the post ... wheres the pic?

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth

awesome news! thanks for the post ... wheres the pic?

I didn't have my camera with me, just my three year old Blackberry with its magestic .4 megapixel lint encrusted camera. Plus I was on my bike and it had started to rain so I wasn't too keen to stop. Hopefully they aren't going anywhere so a photo with a proper camera in a few days' time should suffice.

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by golog

so do you think city council should hold on to them and hope for prices to go up enough that it covers the mortgage costs in the end?

The Evelyn project in West Van is valued somewhere around $75M but is mortgaged for $116M. There is no way the market is going to recover that much.

There are lots of things I think the city should do with the Olympic Village. I'd start with getting rid of all of the social housing. There is no way they can break even though. No matter what happens the PEF is going to be out a huge chunk of money.

[sacrifice333]

Birds Eye View of WCFC. Can't guarantee how long i can provide these for... but at least until December!


Untitled by sacrifice333, on Flickr

Matcon's busy prepping the site. There's a medium-sized excavator on the Eastern side of the property today as well.

[SFUVancouver]

Fantastic. Thank you for the view. Eight months of phots from that vantage point of yours will be very welcome indeed.

[whatnext]

Loved Mayor Moonbeam on Global trying to convince us the city didn't really lose that money they were supposed to get for the land, since they didn't actually get paid.

It's nice to see living proof that beautiful people can be dumb as a stick.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Loved Mayor Moonbeam on Global trying to convince us the city didn't really lose that money they were supposed to get for the land, since they didn't actually get paid.

It's nice to see living proof that beautiful people can be dumb as a stick.

As usual, you resort to superficial personal attacks without backing up your own position. So weak.

The asset was sold, payment fell through, and the asset was reclaimed. No cash was lost in that aspect of the transaction. You might argue that there's an opportunity loss, in that we could have retained the land for some other more lucrative purpose, but that's not quantifiable and is not a cash loss.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

As usual, you resort to superficial personal attacks without backing up your own position. So weak.

The asset was sold, payment fell through, and the asset was reclaimed. No cash was lost in that aspect of the transaction. You might argue that there's an opportunity loss, in that we could have retained the land for some other more lucrative purpose, but that's not quantifiable and is not a cash loss.

HA. Here's a personal attack you can take to the bank: you sound like a bloody accountant.