Quote:
Originally Posted by allan_kuan
Not all of the arteries of Surrey are wide... that also seems more like a misconception. =S
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You're on the dot here, King George is very wide and could probably support an at-grade LRT on the same right of way without any acquisition. 104th is not; I find it is far "beautifully wide" - in fact I find it's actually quite narrow when you consider it's pretty much a major highway route into Surrey, and additionally there's little room on the sides for expansion for a 3rd lane or right turn lanes or that LRT line we've been talking about; acquisition would be required, sacrifice perhaps and the latter just wouldn't be viable for the following reasons:
The one thing we're all forgetting:
the New Port Mann Bridge is going to be tolled. Which means that a whole bunch of people are going to be using the Pattullo as a free alternative. The toll price is indeed quite high and when you think of it, if you're a regular commuter, it would take a big swath into your monthly bill. Especially in that year where New PMB is running & tolled but no SFPR is opened, 104th is just going to get worse and worse and worse, and the only real way to fix it is to separate such a new line from this road traffic. I don't think there would be any way to make the situation (that much) better in the short term.
Removing even the left turn lanes is just not an option as it is, and I really don't think Diane Watts would in any way approve of sacrificing 104th to a 2-lane road with no left turn lanes on the level of Broadway... that would be closing or tampering with connections with communities and residential/business areas as well as just way too painful a cause of traffic for everyone involved. 104th is too important a connection not just for us Guildford residents but for everyone else coming off the 1 as well (i.e. tourists from the rest of BC or Canada who really don't know that the way of getting around here is transit, or commuters from the outer cities of Abbotsford, etc.) who are coming into Surrey's City Centre. I can understand an LRT route that doesn't compromise current conditions (provided room & plans for expansion of this are provided) but one that does... I would rather stick BRT on that route and be done with it.
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I wouldn't be worried about BRT vs LRT ridership potential on this route anyway, there is waaay more than enough; if you've ever ridden Whalley-Guildford busses, it's already very, very high - as in, completely jam-packed buses and long lineups at the Surrey Central bus bays, every time. I'm pretty sure even a BRT (express, no stops between the centres) would be successful in the short term, with RRT on the horizon. I find that most Whalley-Guildford commuters are actually taking buses such as 320; I've noticed the 320 lineups are always longer than others at Surrey Central. The likelihood of why this is, is because the 320 is the Whalley-Guildford bus
that takes the trip the most frequently (320 is every 10 minutes). However, it does inconveniently stop at every intersection, and people deal with this instead of leveraging the 335 which takes the better 108th or the express C74 (which is still crowded, but not nearly as crowded as 320 or so - because it doesn't travel the route nearly as often) under good timing - and indeed a fair majority get off and on at Guildford on those routes that otherwise go everywhere else.
An
express BRT that's speedy and doesn't stop, between Whalley & Guildford that runs as frequently or more frequently than 320 and other routes would probably be very successful at ferrying Whalley-Guildford traffic in a faster, more efficient way. It would also be a more efficient way of predicting ridership patterns and whether the right choice for that route is LRT or RRT. The same goes for Newton, but I'm not so much an expert on the ridership patterns to/from there. The likelihood is if we put in LRT right away, it's never going to be expanded again or at least not for a very long time to handle the traffic volume. Remember when the Canada Line opened, it was over capacity very quickly after opening. There's really no way to tell whether that is going to happen if we choose the wrong option, and I really don't want that to happen in Surrey since the likelihood is that it will worsen more quickly than the Canada Line ever will with this city being much more bustling and booming in population.
The key idea of BRT first and why I support it is that it gives us time. Posts from earlier make it seem that Surrey isn't even willing to pay for such transit itself. To introduce BRT would be the cheapest form of improvement, but the main advantages are that it will 1. provide us with an even better travel movement model to base plans on and 2. give us time to properly raise the money (i.e. in the case that a full RRT system would indeed be required to best support travel movement).
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I also have serious doubts as to turning 108th into the next major east-west route between Whalley & Guildford, I smell plenty of NIMBY's from North Guildford residents especially staff & parents of students at nearby schools, incl. Guildford Heights Secondary, which sits right by that road. I know that many schools are concerned about having major road routes right next to them and would probably go far to stop things from worsening. 104th only goes directly by one school, sadly the likelihood is that there would be nothing doable to fix that problem, but we certainly don't have to make things worse by introducing new problems. Also a problem would be connections between 108th and 1 west/east, you'd have to shift to some local roads and perhaps make even more acquisitions to support to the traffic; not to mention too many turn movements would really be not very optimal, a straight route is much better.
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