Halifax Stadium Discussion

[roccerfeller]

You guys deserve a truly outstanding stadium

Sucks to see, if true, the local gov't is not taking it seriously with future considerations and a possible CFL expansion into consideration

if they are though, this is great news. Get at the media! Let your opinions be heard at city council. If you feel as citizens living there that it is important, Let them know!

You'd be surprised how often people who should be speaking at these things do not because they are too caught up with their own lives, and how that one person can make the whole difference

[fenwick16]

According to an allnovascotia.com story, the stadium consultation and business planning contract has been awarded by the Halifax Regional Municipality to Sierra Planning and Management of Toronto. Here is a link to some projects that they have been involved with - http://www.sierraplan.com/portfolio.htm . They will team up with a local engineering consulting firm, CBCL group - http://www.cbcl.ca/ourfirm/profile.html , and also Novita - http://www.novita.on.ca/ which has offices in Toronto and Lunenburg.

This is an interesting choice. Having a consulting firm from outside of the province will tend to result in a less biased decision regarding location. I assume that location will have to be at least mentioned in the phase I study (although I think that the site will be officially chosen in the stage II study).

[DigitalNinja]

The NDP ruin everything they touch, that is a fact. This coupled with a crappy council and Mayor without leadership is a disaster.
I will be out of Nova Scotia right after I finish University. And probably out of Canada as well. All of this democratic bullcrap that is going on is un-democratic. Calling elections every 2 years. Making false promises. Robbing the normal people blind is basically what they are doing.
Anyway I really hope we get a stadium but will all of the negativity going around it seems very unlikely that we will.

[fenwick16]

I actually feel quite encouraged by the news. Since the Events Nova Scotia conceptual drawings are the only actual renderings that currently exist, those are the only drawings that can be presented to the Canadian Soccer Association. The HRM phase I stadium study is just beginning; a consulting company was just recently selected to do the business study.

If it turns out to be a $30 - $50 million dollar stadium then that is more than what Halifax has right now. As the saying goes - "We must learn to walk before we can run". For $30 million, I think that Halifax could build the first stage of a McMahon Stadium type facility. It doesn't sound like they are talking about a SMU stadium since SMU wouldn't want it to be at Burnside or Shannon Park - apparently it is a municipal stadium that they are talking about.

The phase I study should be complete by early June.

[wespidel]

I believe Halifax aren`t taking the stadium project serious and never did! It will become a Saint Mary`s, Soccer NS stadium suited for them only! But in the eyes of the rest of Canada, it will be an eyesore and a laughing piece of infrastructure in comparison to all the other stadiums in Canada`s other major cities and stadiums currently being built across the country. You can say what you want and I respect your opinion by the reality is, this is the
21st century and Halifax is not 68 thousand people like it was 40 years ago! Halifax is now a 410 thousand plus and within a hour or so of the city, 560 thousand, that`s a major city and to think of the 100`s of millions of dollars they have spend and continue to spend on other projects that they least show a little repsect for and the 90 million they are going to spend on LED lights, 114 million on aunpopular new convention centre, 40 on old sporting facilities, 100 million on two other sporting centres, 60 million on a library which should only be half the project compared to a stadium, if you talk to any intelligent engineer, yet only want to spend 30 to 50 million on a stadium! This is absolutely a total insult and the biggest embarrassment and the biggest snow job the city of Halifax has ever pulled off. They have mislead the public and have treated their so called stadium project with no respect and only what to say they built a stadium, yes A stadium, just to satisfy Saint Mary`s wants and needs! They couldn`t care less about the real professional sports fan or the large event entertainment supporters. Taxpayers are being robbed big time by the city of Halifax and Dexter`s govt. for 100`s of millions every year and this is what they give us back a tiny little mickey mouse stadium. Well Halifax you`re mickey mouse and are going know where fast and will ever be recognized has a major city on a National and Global level and will remain a dead city! I feel the same as the person about, I`m fed up with this city and province and want to leave this backward city that only empties peoples pockets and gives nothing back, yet they have know problem taking more and more money from Nova Scotians!

HRM stop misleading the public, it`s obvious that if you build a stadium it will a tiny little facility and a complete embarrassment, so why not just build it at Saint Mary`s!


Moncton will show Halifax and already have and will really show them when they expand their Stade stadium and spend an additional 80 million to make it a 28,000 permanent seat stadium with all the latest amenities which will bury Halifax for good because Moncton will then officially become the professional sports franchise and entertainment centre for the Atlantic Canada and Halifax will became a ghost town!

[fenwick16]

I have looked for a source of this $90 million to be spent on LED street lights and couldn't find one. Instead I found information on this very modest streetlight project which most people support - http://www.halifax.ca/mediaroom/pressrelease/pr2010/100204LEDStreetlightingProject.html

I no longer respect your opinion wespidel. You are being a bully. Your opinion is just your opinion. Many people would be happy with an an affordable stadium.

Other people should be able to state their opinions without having to worry about your negative, repetitive posts. Based on your posts, I think that you are simply trying to stir up trouble and purposely trying to sabotage any chance the municipality has of building a stadium.

[Waye Mason]

Hey Fenwick, how did we go from you ready to slit my throat to pretty much totally agreeing on everything on this file?

Wespidel, in addition to 20 years working in music and entertainment I just spent 2 months working on a major sports franchise marketing project for my MBA at SMU. I learned a lot about the back end of sports franchises and how the money works and how big a catchment area needs to be. There are 1.8 million people within a 1.5 hour drive (at a mere 70 kph) of Hamilton (this is from Niagara to K/W and Guelph, excluding past Burlington, etc., and yet they struggle to get 20K people out for the Ti-Cats on average, and the solution they propose is either 100 mil for a reno or over double that for a new stadium.

You need a pro facility for a pro team. You need a lot of people to support a pro team. We don't have the people. We COULD build the stadium. At cost and further debt. It would be a good day where there were 10-15K paying customers. I think if the concert scandal has shown us anything it has shown us we just don't have the population to support entertainment that requires sustained commitment of say, 3-5% of the total population of the province.

I hope it DOES go to Moncton. The franchise will be BANKRUPT in less than a decade. I want NB and Moncton left holding that debt, not Halifax. That and the mountain of debt the Libs and Cons both have been amassing in NB will at least make our lackluster track record in NS look better.

At least we have the cold comfort of saying "yes things are bad here, but at least we are not New Brunswick."

[q12]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I actually feel quite encouraged by the news. Since the Events Nova Scotia conceptual drawings are the only actual renderings that currently exist, those are the only drawings that can be presented to the Canadian Soccer Association. The HRM phase I stadium study is just beginning; a consulting company was just recently selected to do the business study.

If it turns out to be a $30 - $50 million dollar stadium then that is more than what Halifax has right now. As the saying goes - "We must learn to walk before we can run". For $30 million, I think that Halifax could build the first stage of a McMahon Stadium type facility. It doesn't sound like they are talking about a SMU stadium since SMU wouldn't want it to be at Burnside or Shannon Park - apparently it is a municipal stadium that they are talking about.

The phase I study should be complete by early June.

I too am encouraged by this news, I think 2015 women's world cup is going to keep the pressure going on the stadium idea and I will be happy if they decide to build a decent size stadium that's expandable in the $30-$60m dollar range. There has been some excellant research done on this forum (thanks to fenwick) for some nice designs that would come in under the price tag HRM will be looking for.

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I have looked for a source of this $90 million to be spent on LED street lights and couldn't find one. Instead I found information on this very modest streetlight project which most people support - http://www.halifax.ca/mediaroom/pressrelease/pr2010/100204LEDStreetlightingProject.html

I no longer respect your opinion wespidel. You are being a bully. Your opinion is just your opinion. Many people would be happy with an an affordable stadium.

Other people should be able to state their opinions without having to worry about your negative, repetitive posts. Based on your posts, I think that you are simply trying to stir up trouble and purposely trying to sabotage any chance the municipality has of building a stadium.

To be honest, I haven't read Wespidal's posts, I just skip over them as I find them mostly nonsense.

[fenwick16]

Waye Mason, I only agree with half of what you are saying. I have always been in favour of an economical stadium that is purposely designed to be a low cost stadium to build, cheap to maintain, but relatively enjoyable. If you look at the website which I started almost a year ago (http://www.halifaxstadium.ca/) I have always talked about an economical stadium. I strongly disagree with the argument that since Hamilton and Winnipeg are both spending over $100 million dollars on stadiums, that is what Halifax must spend. Believing that a stadium must cost over $100 million to be successful isn't being practically mined, it is just an example of not taking the time to consider the many stadiums that have been built at a modest price.

As a side note; since the municipality now has a website, I will soon remove my website content and just redirect people to the municipal website.

PS - added: This is an economical stadium (below) although it doesn't look like it. It is the Kadir-Has Stadium in Kayseri, Turkey and was built for only $68 million Turkish Lira which would be around $50 million in US dollars ( conversion - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_lira ) . I think in order to build it at such a low price, the seats need to be cheap (molded plastic, non-folding), the concourses are probably unheated and open, there are seats all around which decreases the overall stadium height ... I think that to build a stadium that looks like this, a significant proportion of the stadium budget has to be used for the exterior and roof, and the stands and concourse design needs to be very basic. If you look at this stadium you can see the concrete floors and columns of the structure - the exterior shell and roof masks the simple interior stadium design. PS: I like this design. I think that the concourses can provide shelter from the sun and rain but I don't think that they need to be totally enclosed and heated.

(source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadir_Has_Stadium )

[q12]

Finally, stadium project is being done right

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Sports/1237201.html

By CHRIS COCHRANE Sports Columnist
Thu, Apr 7 - 4:54 AM

I will concede up front that I am biased about any stadium-for-Halifax project.

The benefits of a moderately priced stadium for Nova Scotia have been obvious since the CFL courted the Atlantic Schooners way back in the early 1980s.

Little has happened to change my opinion since that time. I am still convinced Halifax deserves a stadium, which most major Canadian cities already enjoy. And an affordable stadium would be a plus for this region in many different ways.

What has been frustrating has been watching Halifax fail to capitalize on the opportunities to get a stadium.

Over the years, there have been plenty of events that drew federal help for stadium construction. But Halifax, lacking either the will or the expertise, was unable to land them. Meanwhile, cities such as Moncton had a better track record.

That is why the group selected to study the stadium question has been such a long overdue appointment. This group of local experts should have been working together years ago on this particular issue.

Stadium supporters are optimistic, with Canada hosting the 2015 World Cup women’s soccer championship and Halifax hoping for a hosting slot, that this time the city can make something happen.

Hopefully, Halifax will have completed the necessary background study and compiled the figures to know all about the costs and all the other details of building a stadium long before World Cup hosting decisions are made.

A group of Canadian Soccer Association officials were in town to assess Halifax as a possible host site earlier this week.

Imagine how the preliminary CSA scorecard read. Great hotels? Check. Beautiful scenery? Check. Huge volunteer base? Check. Stadium? No, they don’t have one of those. Plans for a new stadium? Well, they say they are working on that now.

No doubt Halifax officials showed them our best coloured pictures of what a new stadium could possibly look like. But even the best of drawings are still only drawings. They rarely fool anyone.

Hopefully, they accepted the assurances that when they check back in September, Halifax will have made giant progress on the stadium plan.

For that next meeting, Halifax will need to provide genuine answers on any stadium questions.

Estimates and optimistic predictions probably won’t cut it at that point.

And that is good. Because it is time this stadium matter was settled, one way or another.

First, once all the pertinent information is compiled and made public, let’s decide if there is a consensus for a stadium here. If there isn’t, then we can drop the matter. But if there is, then supporters can lobby for the necessary funding at the private and public levels, and once funding is in place, construction on a stadium can start.

What is so terribly complicated about that? It is all about doing the necessary homework, informing the public, getting feedback and then making a decision.

The bottom line is this project will become reality only after first jumping several hurdles: The citizens committee will say a stadium is a good idea, municipal politicians will buy that view, the province will come on side, someone will convince Ottawa that stadiums are still a wise investment, the public will be convinced the price tag is worthwhile and the private sector will kick in its contribution.

Sure, that is plenty that will have to go right before a stadium project could even get off the ground.

But at least this time Halifax is getting the preparation work done, an essential and crucial first step that hasn’t been properly taken in almost three decades of fruitless stadium chasing.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

[DigitalNinja]

Personally I think that the government will be spending way to much on useless stadium studies and other stuff instead of just coming up with a good design, do some nice free public consultation at the library. And build a good quality stadium with 10k-15k seats that is heated for in the winter if anything is going on then. I think it would be kinda useless to build something that is only useful 3 out of 12 months here... I agree that we can build a nice stadium on the cheap that will suit Halifax's needs. You cannot depend on people traveling outside of Halifax. As a lot of people may not want to travel that far for an average game, or average event.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

I hope it DOES go to Moncton. The franchise will be BANKRUPT in less than a decade. I want NB and Moncton left holding that debt, not Halifax. That and the mountain of debt the Libs and Cons both have been amassing in NB will at least make our lackluster track record in NS look better.

Thanks for your support Waye (I think)

Regarding the CFL, I think both Moncton and Halifax should approach this file with caution. If this all turns into a race then mistakes will be made. Moncton's approach has always been "go slow". At the most, the city is only looking at holding yearly games in our stadium for five years, with a re-evaluation of public interest at that point regarding the desireability of a permanent franchise. Nobody wants to see a franchise fold in it's first decade.

Regarding a stadium for Halifax, I have always been a supporter of a Halifax Stadium. Halifax deserves and requires a stadium. There are certain events that historically belong in Halifax. For example, I think the Uteck Bowl belongs in Halifax, not Moncton.

The question as always is "what type of stadium do you need". Personally, I think a modest but expandable stadium would be best. I would go for a 15-20,000 seat facility with seating on both sides but open end zones. Future expansion could include end zone seating or adding a second tier to at least one side. There should be proper corridors, washrooms and concessions as well as a good press box. If possible, there should be corporate boxes as well. This should be doable for a modest $50-60M.

I think grandiose plans for a cadillac facility will just frighten a lot of people away. Properly done, even a modest Halifax facility would be better than the Moncton Stadium.

This of course doesn't mean that I am throwing in the towel about the possibility of a Moncton CFL franchise. I'm still a strong proponent of this, but this is a fight for another day. I really don't think there will be a Maritime CFL franchise until the latter part of this decade at the earliest. Ottawa in 2013, perhaps Quebec City in 2015 and maybe the Maritimes in 2018.

In the meantime, Halifax should concentrate on building a modest but appropriate stadium and Moncton should look at opportunities to upgrade our facility.

I think that Halifax City Council is on the right track here............

[wespidel]

This was made public by print and by local media, you are totally wrong! I read the article and so did many others who can heard and read! 95.7 talk radio also reported it and yes the 20 to 30 million dollar mickey mouse stadium was reported by a head body of Soccer NS who was on talk 95.7 after the city and Soccer Canada`s meeting was completed! This particular person was involved and made reference to the city project manager`s stadium presentaion and yes the same person was on 95.7 radio and yes he is one of the top Heads of Soccer NS who was showing Soccer Canada around our city. All this is true, you called me a liar before and you were the liar! These are the facts and if they were not true Halifax would be talking about a modestly priced 85 to 100 million dollar major stadium woudln`t they, but their not! This is my final post I`m tired of being treated with total disrspect and you don`t know what is going on because you don`t live in Halifax nor are you paying the highest taxes in Canada so you have know right to comment when you don`t know what you are talking about.

We will see what happens with the stadium, if they even build a mickey mouse Saint mary`s eyesore! They will let you know by the end of May because the heat is on! FIFA said Halifax has to commit by the end of May to build a stadium or they are gone and that to was on the local radio talk show yesterday and made public, sorry I made that up too so you can me a liar again.


I`m done with all of you! Enjoy sitting in your laughing stock mickey mouse stadium! I`m done with it and done with you and this ignorant site!

[DigitalNinja]

I live in Halifax, and it's goofballs like Wespidel that make this place suck so bad...

Bye. Hope ya don't come back.

[CorbeauNoir]

wes' stream-of-consciousness writing makes my head spin a little. It's like he's tripping over his own thoughts every time he posts.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

At least we have the cold comfort of saying "yes things are bad here, but at least we are not New Brunswick."

That is true regardless of what may happen re. a stadium, a pro sports franchise, or a semi-pro CFL team. "I spent a week in Moncton one night..."

[Empire]

Originally Posted by wespidel

This was made public by print and by local media, you are totally wrong! I read the article and so did many others who can heard and read! 95.7 talk radio also reported it and yes the 20 to 30 million dollar mickey mouse stadium was reported by a head body of Soccer NS who was on talk 95.7 after the city and Soccer Canada`s meeting was completed! This particular person was involved and made reference to the city project manager`s stadium presentaion and yes the same person was on 95.7 radio and yes he is one of the top Heads of Soccer NS who was showing Soccer Canada around our city. All this is true, you called me a liar before and you were the liar! These are the facts and if they were not true Halifax would be talking about a modestly priced 85 to 100 million dollar major stadium woudln`t they, but their not! This is my final post I`m tired of being treated with total disrspect and you don`t know what is going on because you don`t live in Halifax nor are you paying the highest taxes in Canada so you have know right to comment when you don`t know what you are talking about.

We will see what happens with the stadium, if they even build a mickey mouse Saint mary`s eyesore! They will let you know by the end of May because the heat is on! FIFA said Halifax has to commit by the end of May to build a stadium or they are gone and that to was on the local radio talk show yesterday and made public, sorry I made that up too so you can me a liar again.


I`m done with all of you! Enjoy sitting in your laughing stock mickey mouse stadium! I`m done with it and done with you and this ignorant site!

Is your real name BRUCE?

[Jstaleness]

Just adding a few bb photo's of one of the potential sites. This is Shannon Park as seen from Trinity Harbour View Townhouses.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

"I spent a week in Moncton one night..."

That's an old Henny Youngman joke; except I believe the usual target is Cleveland!

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Waye Mason, I only agree with half of what you are saying. I have always been in favour of an economical stadium that is purposely designed to be a low cost stadium to build, cheap to maintain, but relatively enjoyable. If you look at the website which I started almost a year ago (http://www.halifaxstadium.ca/) I have always talked about an economical stadium. I strongly disagree with the argument that since Hamilton and Winnipeg are both spending over $100 million dollars on stadiums, that is what Halifax must spend. Believing that a stadium must cost over $100 million to be successful isn't being practically mined, it is just an example of not taking the time to consider the many stadiums that have been built at a modest price.

No, we totally agree on the need for a build. I think a modest stadium is appropriate, something bigger than Moncton, as we are 3 times the size. Moncton spent 17 mil, so we will end up spending 50-60, I suspect. EDIT OMG I agree with Moncton Rad too. God. Do we have a consensus of the somewhat sane people on the Board on this issue?

That said, if you want CFL, you need a stadium that is bigger/better than that. It's not just about seats and a field, the ancillary revenue is what makes a franchise work or not. So if we go modest and affordable, I contend that we will not be able to support a CFL team.

But then again, I contend that we (or Moncton) can't support a team at all because of our population, so don't listen to me.