Calgary Public Transit II

[mersar]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

I guess SAIT and University stations will probably be done in the summer as well, to minimize impact to students using those stations.

Yep, that would be a good bet. University will be interesting to see how its done, I'm suspecting they are going to end up extending off both ends as its pretty tight between the crossover to the south of the station and the substation to the north. SAIT will be more complex, as they will need to remove the existing enclosed area on the west side of the station and bring the platform pretty much to the edge of the level crossing.

[CTrainDude]

Originally Posted by Jack Doe

Good to hear.Do you have access to a schedule for when the other S and NW stations are to be done?

Stations scheduled to be complete by the end of 2011 or early 2012 (depending on some outside factors eg. NIMBYs, CP Rail): Southland, Brentwood, Canyon Meadows, Erlton, Chinook, Sunnyside, Anderson. No exact timelines. I don't think I need to mention where the NIMBYs might be an issue

[fusili]

Originally Posted by CTrainDude

Stations scheduled to be complete by the end of 2011 or early 2012 (depending on some outside factors eg. NIMBYs, CP Rail): Southland, Brentwood, Canyon Meadows, Erlton, Chinook, Sunnyside, Anderson. No exact timelines. I don't think I need to mention where the NIMBYs might be an issue

Hillhurst Nimbyside?

[westendjack]

Does anyone know what the plan is for 39th Avenue Station? I've been looking and can't seem to find any information on it, but at a glance I'm not quite sure how an extension to four car trains would work for this station. I'm very curious as to what, if any, plans have been made. Thanks!

[CTrainDude]

Originally Posted by westendjack

Does anyone know what the plan is for 39th Avenue Station? I've been looking and can't seem to find any information on it, but at a glance I'm not quite sure how an extension to four car trains would work for this station. I'm very curious as to what, if any, plans have been made. Thanks!

I'm interested to know too. My guess (and just a guess) is that they may have to close the road crossing at 39th Avenue and extend that way.

[DarkKeyo]

Great to hear that they are planning on doing that many stations in the next year, although I don't look forward to Chinook or Anderson having to be closed. As for Sunnyside, it's a pretty narrow platform so there shouldn't be much disruption to the area around it. So anyone who complains might as well complain that the station is already there, now.... which I bet they do.

Originally Posted by westendjack

Does anyone know what the plan is for 39th Avenue Station? I've been looking and can't seem to find any information on it, but at a glance I'm not quite sure how an extension to four car trains would work for this station. I'm very curious as to what, if any, plans have been made. Thanks!

I think it could be pulled off with a lot of very careful squeezing of (very narrow) platform right up to where the tunnel starts, from my observations of how much space they have. But if they ever want to do anything else to that station it's going to have to not be where it is.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by fusili

Hillhurst Nimbyside?

I guess Sunnyside is the only station in the heart of a community, but I would think that most people will support it.

[DarkKeyo]

Originally Posted by suburb

Guys, all of these are simple workarounds that don't result in a true reduction of cars and traffic at Foothills. Very few staff and fewer friends and family of those in the hospital use the bus. We need a cross-town LRT!

On the NC LRT blog, Anonymous suggested keeping the NC LRT above ground and in the current proposed alignment, and then focusing efforts instead on a cross-town line connecting ACH, FMC, NW LRT, NC LRT and NE LRT via a largely underground line. I like that idea!!!

Funny, everyone I know takes the bus to Foothills, including a family member who works there and many of her coworkers. It's nigh impossible to park there.

And, while my people-mover drawing is, ultimately, a bit of a flight of fancy.... Route 91 that you mentioned runs at high frequencies, *alongside* the 20, 40, 19, 72 and 73 that provide access to that area from various other parts of the city. Plus, the 16th Ave BRT in the BRT network plan will basically duplicate the 91's service, as well as provide the crosstown link you want. So, there is enough ridership already to provide frequent service, and to upgrade service... eventually, perhaps, to a people mover like that.

I like doodling maps like that people mover one, I might doodle a map that has it linked to a crosstown route. Do we have a Transit Fantasy thread? If we don't, we should.

This is the BRT Network Plan:
http://agendaminutes.calgary.ca/sirepub/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=23678

It was posted here back in January: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=5129109&postcount=2049

[suburb]

Originally Posted by DarkKeyo

... the 16th Ave BRT in the BRT network plan will basically duplicate the 91's service, as well as provide the crosstown link you want.

This is the BRT Network Plan:
http://agendaminutes.calgary.ca/sirepub/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=23678

Thank-you! Can't believe I missed that. Don't know what I was smoking. The map on page 46 is bang on. I also like the fact that for a period it travels up 52nd street in between the NE residential, instead of 36th street like the LRT. This type of link will hopefully help densification of 16th avenue. I will certainly accomplish the shorter term goals I was mentioning.

[Jack Doe]

Originally Posted by CTrainDude

Stations scheduled to be complete by the end of 2011 or early 2012 (depending on some outside factors eg. NIMBYs, CP Rail): Southland, Brentwood, Canyon Meadows, Erlton, Chinook, Sunnyside, Anderson. No exact timelines. I don't think I need to mention where the NIMBYs might be an issue

Thanks, CTrainDude!

I grabbed this picture from the Hillhurst-Sunnyside ARP



The original can be found here:

http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/planning/pdf/hillhurst_sunnyside/hillhurst_sunnyside_arp.pdf

page 92 (100 of 140)

[fusili]

Originally Posted by suburb

Thank-you! Can't believe I missed that. Don't know what I was smoking. The map on page 46 is bang on. I also like the fact that for a period it travels up 52nd street in between the NE residential, instead of 36th street like the LRT. This type of link will hopefully help densification of 16th avenue. I will certainly accomplish the shorter term goals I was mentioning.

The 16th Avenue BRT is perhaps the most useful out of the entire network. Another benefit of the centre street subway- it actually connects with the BRT. In order to connect the Nose Creek Alignment to the BRT, the stations have to be built in the middle of an interchange.

[You Need A Thneed]

Just looking at that BRT network plan again, how many Bus routes are there elsewhere in Canada/anywhere that travel on one road (different names) for as many kms as the future 52nd Street BRT?

Google Maps says it would be about 28 km. Technically, the way Saddletowne circle is set up, a BRT bus could drive from 196th Ave S up north to Saddletowne, and then back down to 196th Ave S without making a turn off of the road it was driving on, ~56km.

(Though I suspect that the BRT might enter the bus bays at Saddletowne, technically a turn in and out.)

[fusili]

Originally Posted by You Need A Thneed

Just looking at that BRT network plan again, how many Bus routes are there elsewhere in Canada/anywhere that travel on one road (different names) for as many kms as the future 52nd Street BRT?

Google Maps says it would be about 28 km. Technically, the way Saddletowne circle is set up, a BRT bus could drive from 196th Ave S up north and then back down to 196th Ave S without making a turn off of the road it was driving on, ~56km.

(Though I suspect that the BRT might enter the bus bays at Saddletowne, technically a turn in and out.)

If done right, that thing would be speedy. No messing with left turns (or right turns for that matter). A centre running dedicated ROW on 52nd street could make that thing have average speeds close to the LRT.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Here's the deal for you then - half the spots you COULD have taken are now going to be reserved, and as you say, you won't buy one for twice a week. So fully half the spots are gone (I'm going to ignore the 4 hour spots discussed above, not sure how many of them there ever were).

Out of the rest, I guarantee you they will fill up before 9:30. Because everyone else who used to have to pay $3 is now fighting for half the available spots. Some will reserve (looks like plenty have), but I have a hard time believing demand is going to go DOWN now that the spots are free. So absolute best case, you might still get your 9:30 spot and it'll be free. Great! But I have an incredibly hard time imagining that happening.

I think I'm going to play around with the car for fun in early April, just to get a sense of what is open and when. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the "free" spots are filled all the way to Brentwood before 8am. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they're filled shortly after 7am. But I'd be very happy to be wrong (I use the PnR very sparingly, but when I do, it saves me a ton of time).

Did some number crunching tonight:


Total available reserved spots per line: NE 500, SW 999, NW 1532.

Total spots taken up since Friday: NE 28, SW 246, NW 407.

Highest to lowest Station with most takers:
Crowfoot 227,
Somerset 174,
Dalhousie 103,
Brentwood 77,
Fishcreek 72,
Barlow - Max Bell 14,
McKnight Westwinds 14.

Highest to lowest Station with most spots remaining:
Fishcreek 475
McKnight Westwinds 461
Crowfoot 431
Brentwood 413
Dalhousie 281
Somerset 278
Barlow - Max Bell 11

Based on the above My predictions:
- April 4th there will be no PnR spots (Free or reserved) on the NW line after 8am. At 10am a couple (well 40-60) spots will open at Brentwood - these are unused reserved spots.
- My bold prediction is that All reserved spots at Crowfoot, Dalhousie, and Somerset will be taken up on April 4th.
- Southwest line will see improved PnR useage and by Fall all the current reserved spots will be taken. Anderson, Chinook, and Southland will get reserved spots set aside by September 1.
- By this comming winter (November just in case summer never shows up) City council will debate increasing the reserved spots above 50% due to pubic demand in the NW line. Also look for the NW BRT PnR lots to have a reserved allocation.

[Bassic Lab]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

Jesus. If the Centre Street Subway advocates get criticized for making assumptions about the significance of the cost, this has got to be at least 5 times worse. An entire circle LRT route is cost prohibitive. You may see some short spurs off the radial lines, and maybe some people-movers or smaller-scale rail-based solutions like the one proposed above, but a circle LRT (or at least a circle as big as most people propose) would require, at the very least, acquiring thousands of properties. Likely into the billions of dollars just to secure the route.

Property acquisition for a new surface ROW would likely be the worst way to build an LRT route through established communities. It would be akin to building the N LRT beside Centre Street where there are currently houses. It would: be expensive, create a barrier between communities on either side, require closing multiple intersections, be slowed down by the remaining intersections. It would probably be cheaper to elevate a line over existing ROWs, like roads, and subway might not even be that much more expensive.

I tend to think that a number of the BRT corridors that the city has outlined could eventually warrant an upgrade to LRT service. The eastern section of the 305 along 17 Ave SE is a prime example. An LRT route there could likely be justified today but it would still fall behind the SE LRT, N LRT, and 8 Ave Subway as a priority. Now it is a somewhat unique example in that the ROW is wide enough for surface operation, although I favour an elevated alignment between 26 St and 54 St, and it could serve as another radial line. That said, some of the other routes, like variations of the SW Crosstown or 16 Ave Crosstown, could easily warrant it at some point in the future as well. Either way, it would be decades before we could afford it (given the expense of existing plans) and by then we will have ample evidence from the BRT routes to help us determine which corridors might warrant the upgrade. A reasonable benchmark would be the 301, if any other BRT routes can match the riders it generates as a glorified express bus then it would probably be wise to start planning for an eventual transition to LRT.

[You Need A Thneed]

17th Ave SE Corridor study.

Has this been posted before? I don't remember seeing it the city's website before.

I believe that the city wants to use some of the Green Trip funding to build some of this.

[The Avid Pedestrian]

^ Good timing YNAT, was just about to mention that in my response to SubUrb's crosstown LRT discussion

If the future 17th Ave SE busway were to upgraded to LRT 20 years down the road (after NC and SELRTs), they could run the WLRT to ELRT as a cross town service. A spur off the WLRT downtown to Forest Lawn could be a good crosstown route (inglewood, Crossfield, Manchester Industrial)

Generally, I think some interlining is good and providing different services like W-E as well as W-NE could be handy for some folks. Especially as the TOD at Wesbrook and revitalization of Inglewood and Forest Lawn move forward. Pretty cool to imagine living at Wesbrook, having a delicious dinner in Forest Lawn, seeing a show in Inglewood and then heading home via LRT. Thoughts?

and have 16th ave as a crosstown BRT.


Other than the Primary network and possibly ELRT, we'd just need a few BRT routes to interconnect the 6(7?) LRT lines. An inner ring and an outer ring.


S to SE
Inner
Chinook to Crossfield (or nearby on SE LRT)

Outer
Somerset to Mackenzie Towne or maybe South Hospital


W to NW
Inner
I can't think of a good route across the river before sarcee? ideas

Outer
Sirocco to Brentwood?

NW to NC to NE

Inner

16th Ave BRT Lions Park/SAIT to 16th at Centre to Marlborough?

Outer
Stony Trail from Crowchild to future NELRT expansion?


and do them Curitiba or Bogota style...

[The Avid Pedestrian]

New WLRT construction photos have been posted

http://www.westlrt.ca/contentdesign/constructiondashboard.cfm

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by The Avid Pedestrian

New WLRT construction photos have been posted

http://www.westlrt.ca/contentdesign/constructiondashboard.cfm

I feel like such a complainer, but I hate albums where you have to click on each photo, then click it closed, rather than Next Next Next Next...

[mwalker_mw]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

I feel like such a complainer, but I hate albums where you have to click on each photo, then click it closed, rather than Next Next Next Next...

Right arrow key is your friend....