NEW YORK | 200 Greenwich - 2 WTC | 1,226 FT | 55 FLOORS

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Zensteeldude

The current cranes are capable of going to the top.

With a whole lotta luck, they will...



Here's that shot of the sw columns...

http://archives.earthcam.com/archives5/ecnetwork/us/ny/nyc/gzmpr/gzrobotic1.jpg

[Big Towers]

This is one of those situations where you don't know what's going to happen next.

Probably more steel (duh), but you'll never know how they will be placed considering the current position they're being installed.

[upNaway]

Hey big towers i think i can answer your question about the shape of the core its apears that the notched part of the core is there because the road to the loading bays for 1wtc runs past it i dono if you have already figured that out but thought id try and help

[Zensteeldude]

Yep, that's what the notch in the core is for.

I don't have any T2 prints but it shows up on some of the overall site plans.

It also looks like 2 or 3 perimeter columns on the west side straddle the ramp. The straddling columns look so small because two of them carry the load that one of the straight columns carries. All the columns are going to be encased in concrete. The T2 sub-grade construction looks alot like that of T1.

[Zensteeldude]

Originally Posted by Big Towers

This is one of those situations where you don't know what's going to happen next.

Probably more steel (duh), but you'll never know how they will be placed considering the current position they're being installed.

Take my advise. Be silent on things you know nothig about.

[upNaway]

nice one zen yeah i agree with you on how 2wtc construction reminds you of 1wtc construction

[NYguy]

Once again, these numbers are all over the place. The official numbering of the floors changes again, (the height seems to change also).

http://www.wtc.com/about/office-tower-2

2 World Trade Center at 200 Greenwich Street, features a sparkling glazed crystalline form and diamond-shaped summit that will create a bold addition to the New York skyline.

Designed by Foster and Partners, the 88-story tower will be the second-tallest skyscraper on the World Trade Center site and in New York City. Located east of the proposed performing arts center and north of the WTC Transportation Hub, 2 WTC will rise to 1,349 feet and be topped by an 80-foot antenna.

The tower will contain five levels of retail; 60 office floors, including a sky lobby, that total 3.1 million rentable square feet; and a 67-foot-high office lobby. It will have a total of eight entrances: five entrances from street level, one below-grade entrances from the WTC Transportation Hub, and two from the retail area.

So, depending on how it's interpreted, that's a 1,349 ft to roof tower with the remaining 80 ft spire going to 1,429 ft or a 1,269 ft to roof tower topped by an 80 ft spire. Still scheduled to reach street level by the beginning of next year.

Beginning of Foundation Work.............. June 2010
Building Reaches Grade....................... December 2011

[sw5710]

1349' + spire = 1429' ??

[STR]

It was always 1350, actually it was 1349 and a few inches that round up to 1350. 1358 was from the corner of Vesey and Greenwich, the lowest point on the lot, but far from the entrance so it doesn't count. This article is just a straight up typo. They rounded the height improperly and copy-pasted the "plus antenna" line from other releases even though it will neither be "plus" nor an antenna.

The design of this building was fixed in 2007-2008. It did not change. It really can't chan ge given how delicately interwoven the towers are with the subgrade infrastructure. It is 1350 to pinnacle. Period.

[Zapatan]

^Then why is it now 88 floors,

surely the tower must be slightly taller to be able to accomodate those extra floors.

The article basically says the tower grew 80 feet to both the roof and the tip, it was never 1350 feet tall to the roof, it was 1270. We have never seen the 1430 foot figure before, this would be great if the article were true.

[uakoops]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

^Then why is it now 88 floors,

surely the tower must be slightly taller to be able to accomodate those extra floors.

The article basically says the tower grew 80 feet to both the roof and the tip, it was never 1350 feet tall to the roof, it was 1270. We have never seen the 1430 foot figure before, this would be great if the article were true.

Maybe they are going to skip some numbers like they did with T1.

[STR]

^That would be my guess as well. They're double counting the double height floors. Since there's 9 extra tall mechanical floors out of the 79, double counting them would bring you to 88. The building has NOT changed in 3 years. It's been fixed. Blueprints printed and finalized (and look spectacular, if I may say so). No new stories. No dramatic height increase.

After re-reading the page, it's clear to me what they mean. The quote is "2 WTC will rise to 1,349 feet and be topped by an 80-foot antenna". That is a quick alteration of the previous version, which read 1270+80. They're not saying 1,349+80, they're saying the 1349 includes the spire. It's akward, but that's what happens when you only change one word.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by STR

^That would be my guess as well. They're double counting the double height floors. Since there's 9 extra tall mechanical floors out of the 79, double counting them would bring you to 88. The building has NOT changed in 3 years. It's been fixed. Blueprints printed and finalized (and look spectacular, if I may say so). No new stories. No dramatic height increase.

After re-reading the page, it's clear to me what they mean. The quote is "2 WTC will rise to 1,349 feet and be topped by an 80-foot antenna". That is a quick alteration of the previous version, which read 1270+80. They're not saying 1,349+80, they're saying the 1349 includes the spire. It's akward, but that's what happens when you only change one word.

I was actually thinking that too about skipping floors, but since when was an 80 foot height increase "dramatic"?

If they're saying 1349 includes the spire then where did the 1429 figure come from?

[STR]

From an engineering standpoint, adding more than a floor is going to be significant. If they actually added 9 floors, that would increase gravity loads by somewhere in the area of 10%, and wind loads by 15-20%. On top of that, you have to completely rework the elevator system, the HVAC, and other utilities. That's a lot of work. You're pretty much starting over from scratch, which would take the better part of a year to complete on something this big.

I, personally, had no idea how tightly integrated everything is on a building until I had a taste of project management myself. Change one thing, and you have to go back and rework everything. There isn't nearly enough margin to do whatever you want. Given a tight enough schedule, like you have here, a lot of decisions become fixed and permanent very early on in the process.

The 1430 number seems to have come entirely from NYGuy.

[Zapatan]

While I agree that it is a feat to change such a massive structures' design, you act as if it's impossible, I don't know why you think it would take a year as it's been done many times before with lots of buildings, look back at the skyscraper races in the 1920s and 30s in NYC. If they could do it then we can do it now. Building heights aren't always accurate before the building is actually built either, SWFC was originally going to be 1500 feet tall until it was built then we found out it was taller, same with the Burj Dubai etc.

A foundation built for a 1270 foot tower can also support a 1350 foot tower, its not that big of a difference, there is a lot of leeway.

Edit: reading NYGuy's post again it seems you are right, but still, it states 1349 to the roof and an 80 foot antenna which means we can assume the tower will top out at 1429 if the source is accurate. The fact that it states 88 floors instead of 78/79, makes me think that some sort of tweaking was done, even if it was just skipping a few floors to make a higher floors count.

[STR]

Buildings in the 1920's were not as large, complex, nor built as stringently (in the "we don't want to use more materials than we have to" sense of the term) as this building is. Entire systems (such as air/climate control) did not exist in earlier buildings. As such, it took 2WTC one year (2006-2007) to be fully fleshed out by Foster+Partners and their engineering partners. It would therefore be a safe assumption that a major redesign would take a similar amount of time, though likely somewhat less than the original work, because at least some of it (such as the horizontal floor framing) would still apply. Some structures, such as the foundation, would probably be fine. You still have to go back and rerun the simulations. However, the upper part of the building would need a lot of rework as you'd need to add another elevator bank, structural reinforcements, retooled mechanicals, and all the other things I've pointed out twice already.

Could it be done? Absolutely. It's been done. Silverstein properties built the original 7WTC on a foundation meant for a building 1/3 of what was built. The hotel at 3WTC was bigger than what Yamasaki planned for as well. However, given the WTC as it is now, would adding floors cause delays? Yes, and that is the critical issue. A 4-6 month delay would be huge at this point in time. Huge, as in, somebody would have to come out and make a press statement and explain why they interrupted work in the NE corner of the site.

As for wtc.com, it does not say the building will be 1349 to the roof. It says "2 WTC will rise to 1,349 feet". It then says it will "be topped by an 80-foot antenna." If you take those statements separately, they are correct. However, it is ambiguous, and it is ambiguous because they literally removed the roof height (as it was stated in the original page) and replaced it with the total height, leaving the overall sentence structure intact and therefore making the suggestion that NYGuy jumped on. However, nothing has changed beyond that single sentence. The building has 79 floor slabs and the pinnacle will rise to 1,350, give or take a few inches.

And just on a side note, and pointing in another way how ridiculous this is, is that you would need a lot more than 80 feet to fit 9 more floors in this building. The floors in 2WTC are all at least 13'6" and range up to almost 40 feet. That means you'd need at a minimum of 120 feet to fit 9 floors in.

[Zapatan]

It did mention 88 floors though, You are probably right about it just being the removal of some of the low floor numbers like in 1WTC.

They did imply that 1349 was the roof as they said the antenna would be on top of that, I don't really know, no one does. I think we should wait for more information.

NYguy, what was the date on that article?

[STR]

Yes, I know. I've seen the blueprints. This whole idea is ridiculous. It's just a typo.

[aquablue]

Originally Posted by STR

Yes, I know. I've seen the blueprints. This whole idea is ridiculous. It's just a typo.

Ok, Ok. we get it, you KNOW.

[STR]

The problem wasn't my knowledge. The issue is that I don't want to see for the next X months the same post over and over "how tall is it going to be? Y or Z?". I'm trying to beat this rumor down before it even gets legs. No confusion. No disappointment when the error is inevitably corrected.