Halifax Stadium Discussion

[MonctonRad]

Hopefully something so important as a convention centre would transcend this debacle with Mayor Kelly. It's too vital an issue for your city to let fall to the wayside over this.

What I would be more concerned about is the current shenanigans on Parliament Hill. If an election is called, at the very least federal funding will be delayed for six months. This might be long enough to put the whole convention centre project in jeopardy.

[wespidel]

Do you know what happened to the money? No but I can guarantee you, that it didn`t end up in Mayor Kelly`s hands so what are you talking about. It was a deal made between Anstey who overruled the Mayor and his concert promoter MacKay and is good buddy Scot Fergerson. You didn`t here Fergerson scrambling on talk radio, did you! He`s knows a lot more than he`s saying and there is definitely something fishy going on, just by his responses. So why are you blaming the Mayor. How would you two like it if you were excused and abused when you were innocent and your job was threatened and you both were being run in the ground. All you people are all the same, you knockers, and attackers! Your nothing but negative ignorant cruel people that can`t say anything good about anyone or feel for decent people and have no respect for anyone. We don`t need people like you in our city who do nothing but run people down, why don`t you put all your energy into running yourselfs down and let better people than yourselfs alone!

By the way I don`t want any more ignorant remarks directed towards myself either, from both of you! Why don`t you just get off the site, we don`t need ignorant people like you on here, you knockers!

Sorry if you`re not good people, take your cruel and bad manners somewheres else! We only want positive people here that don`t attack people and make rude remarks about our Mayor when he a good person and doesn`t deserve to be abused like people like you nor other decent people on here!

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by wespidel

Do you know what happened to the money?

Yes. It ended up in Harold MacKay's hands. I understand he is currently enjoying a ski vacation out west.

No but I can guarantee you, that it didn`t end up in Mayor Kelly`s hands so what are you talking about.

We are talking about him knowingly breaking the rules that govern HRM in order to avoid further damage to his image. Of course, we now know that in regard to image, exactly the opposite has occurred.

It was a deal made between Anstey who overruled the Mayor and his concert promoter MacKay and is good buddy Scot Fergerson.

Cripes, not even the mayor is saying that now. Where do you get this stuff? Anstey didn't "overrule" anyone. The discussion occurred with the mayor as part of the discussion. He was fully part of the decision. Everyone except you seems to know that.

You didn`t here Fergerson scrambling on talk radio, did you! He`s knows a lot more than he`s saying and there is definitely something fishy going on, just by his responses.

He told his bosses, Gordon Gillis and Ian Thompson. The mayor, on the other hand, told nobody. Your venom is badly misdirected.

So why are you blaming the Mayor. How would you two like it if you were excused and abused when you were innocent and your job was threatened and you both were being run in the ground.

I am blaming the mayor because the mayor is responsible. He is far from innocent in any of this - he is completely culpable. He has scored the rare trifecta of being guilty of misfeasance, malfeasance and nonfeasance. He must go.

By the way I don`t want any more ignorant remarks directed towards myself either, from both of you! Why don`t you just get off the site, we don`t need ignorant people like you on here, you knockers!

Stop posting nonsense and you won't have anything to worry about. Keep posting ridiculous swill like you have and expect to be challenged. This forum isn't like HRM. There are consequences here for doing and saying stupid things.

Sorry if you`re not good people, take your cruel and bad manners somewheres else! We only want positive people here that don`t attack people and make rude remarks about our Mayor when he a good person and doesn`t deserve to be abused like people like you nor other decent people on here!

Sorry but this isn't PeterKellyville where everyone is happy and content in a community of communities where consultation results in everyone blithely going along with whatever hizzoner the mayor wants to spend their money on. The mayor has shown he has no respect for law, no respect for the taxpayer, and no respect for the people he both works for and works with. He must leave office.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by wespidel

Do you know what happened to the money? No but I can guarantee you, that it didn`t end up in Mayor Kelly`s hands so what are you talking about. It was a deal made between Anstey who overruled the Mayor and his concert promoter MacKay and is good buddy Scot Fergerson. You didn`t here Fergerson scrambling on talk radio, did you! He`s knows a lot more than he`s saying and there is definitely something fishy going on, just by his responses. So why are you blaming the Mayor. How would you two like it if you were excused and abused when you were innocent and your job was threatened and you both were being run in the ground. All you people are all the same, you knockers, and attackers! Your nothing but negative ignorant cruel people that can`t say anything good about anyone or feel for decent people and have no respect for anyone. We don`t need people like you in our city who do nothing but run people down, why don`t you put all your energy into running yourselfs down and let better people than yourselfs alone!

By the way I don`t want any more ignorant remarks directed towards myself either, from both of you! Why don`t you just get off the site, we don`t need ignorant people like you on here, you knockers!

Sorry if you`re not good people, take your cruel and bad manners somewheres else! We only want positive people here that don`t attack people and make rude remarks about our Mayor when he a good person and doesn`t deserve to be abused like people like you nor other decent people on here!

wespidel – Did you ever consider that maybe, just maybe, mayor Kelly is doing everything he can to promote himself by being aligned with high profile events/projects? No?…..well it may be worth some thought. Why was Kelly so aggressive in securing a big band for the commons in the early stages when it was the mandate of Events Nova Scotia to do so? Maybe because if it worked there would be a motherload of high fives for him. I applaud a mayor who wants to promote the city but protocol has to be followed or the efforts can backfire….as they have.

We live in one of the filthiest cities in Canada. I have not seen a concerted effort by the mayor to rid the city of garbage strewn everywhere. Kelly invited the Guardian Angles to come to Halifax and then when he sensed some negative press he backed away completely. Crime is still rampant in HRM. Garbage, crime, homelessness, public housing etc. are issues that don’t bring notoriety like “I gave you the oval”.

Politicians must be prepared to take a lot of heat for debacles they are involved in just as they expect a lot of praise and votes for big media success stories.

You will find this forum can be a school of hard knocks because forum members like to get to the bottom of things quickly.

Please don’t be so rude in your response!

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I am blaming the mayor because the mayor is responsible. He is far from innocent in any of this - he is completely culpable. He has scored the rare trifecta of being guilty of misfeasance, malfeasance and nonfeasance. He must go.

Like Keith P. is pointing out, Mayor Kelly should have been more forthright with all the details from the start, and Mayor Kelly should have stood up for Mr. Anstey (I don't believe that Mr. Anstey made the advance payments on his own accord - I have to give Mr. Anstey credit for taking the blame though). Keith P., are you a lawyer - I had to look those three words up.

It is hard to condemn wespidel for supporting the Mayor, since wespidel may see the stadium figuratively "going down the toilet" (I am just no longer sure that Mayor Kelly can make it happen). However, regarding the concert deal, it might be better to show some support for Mr. Anstey. However, Mr Anstey should have said "no" even if it meant losing his job - it shows that being faithful to one's leader can go too far (the HRM can hire and fire CAO's so I think that Mayor Kelly is MR. Anstey's leader).

Personally, I find it difficult to condemn Mayor Kelly too strongly for advancing the money, since we all know how difficult it is to get things done in the ultra-conservative Halifax environment with so many wingnuts around who oppose everything.


PS: On a different topic, TSN's online website posted the following story (which had previously been posted in the Chronicle Herald and other media sources) - http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=358675 . It is interesting in that it is a nationally read online media source, and, reading the comments, it shows that most people in other parts of the country are in favour of Halifax building a stadium. (One commenter states that Mayor Kelly stepped down two days ago ). Since the TSN website is mainly read by sports fans, you don't see all the anti-development wingnuts posting - which is refreshing.

[MonctonRad]

I would agree with Fenwick, I think the reason why Wespidel is so frantically supporting Mayor Kelly is because he is such a fervent supporter of the idea of a major league stadium in Halifax. He views Kelly as his "champion" and he fears that if Kelly goes down, that any prospect of a significant stadium will be lost as well.

You have to seperate these two issues. If the case for a major stadium in Halifax is strong enough, it will survive this Kelly debacle. The timing however is unfortunate and will serve to distract people's attention in the short term. Also, one has to wonder if the current HRM council risks becoming a "lame duck" administration until the next election. If so, this places any Halifax bid for the FIFA World Cup in jeopardy.

In any event, I think a new stadium will ultimately come to Halifax regardless of Mayor Kelly's ultimate fate.

[fenwick16]

I think that there are Councillors, who are trusted in the community, who could become spokespeople for the stadium issue. For example either Councilor Sloane or Councillor Fisher, who are both on the steering committee, could become the spokespeople. I don't think that condemnation of the Mayor will affect the entire HRM council.

[wespidel]

Mr. Anstey stated on TV that he and only he had the power and the authority to transfer the money, not Mayor Kelly and that is fact. So what are you talking about! Mayor Kelly is not a lawyer, this was a legal issue that Anstey could only do himself which he admitted and he said clearly on TV that Mayor Kelly could not make the decision and that he made the decision!
Futhermore Mayor Kelly is a good person and has served us well as Mayor and always put faith and trust in his people. Mayor Kelly is well respected and what upsets me the most, is that the media and people like you, have no understanding and respect for Mayor Kelly as a person and as our Mayor, which only tells me why we have a city like we do and why Moncton is moving forward and Halifax backwards. Moncton`s Mayor has invested over 8 million dollars of tax payers money to stage big concerts and they haven`t gotten their money back either and have lost money. You don`t see the Mayor of Moncton being hung and the people of Moncton running down their Mayor for losing the tax payers money during the Rolling Stones concert do you!

I don`t like the attitude of the media and people of Halifax and how they treat people and run everyone down but themselves and you`re one of them!

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by wespidel

Mr. Anstey stated on TV that he and only he had the power and the authority to transfer the money, not Mayor Kelly and that is fact.

He told TCL that the mayor had authorized the transfer. That is why they did it.

Futhermore Mayor Kelly is a good person

Proven false this week.

and has served us well as Mayor

Proven false this week.

and always put faith and trust in his people.

Proven false this week.

Mayor Kelly is well respected

Proven false this week.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by wespidel

Mr. Anstey stated on TV that he and only he had the power and the authority to transfer the money, not Mayor Kelly and that is fact. So what are you talking about! Mayor Kelly is not a lawyer, this was a legal issue that Anstey could only do himself which he admitted and he said clearly on TV that Mayor Kelly could not make the decision and that he made the decision!
Futhermore Mayor Kelly is a good person and has served us well as Mayor and always put faith and trust in his people. Mayor Kelly is well respected and what upsets me the most, is that the media and people like you, have no understanding and respect for Mayor Kelly as a person and as our Mayor, which only tells me why we have a city like we do and why Moncton is moving forward and Halifax backwards. Moncton`s Mayor has invested over 8 million dollars of tax payers money to stage big concerts and they haven`t gotten their money back either and have lost money. You don`t see the Mayor of Moncton being hung and the people of Moncton running down their Mayor for losing the tax payers money during the Rolling Stones concert do you!

I don`t like the attitude of the media and people of Halifax and how they treat people and run everyone down but themselves and you`re one of them!

by wespidel
Mr. Anstey stated on TV that he and only he had the power and the authority to transfer the money, not Mayor Kelly and that is fact. So what are you talking about!
================================================
wespidel
I think you have me confused with some other forum poster???

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by wespidel

Moncton`s Mayor has invested over 8 million dollars of tax payers money to stage big concerts and they haven`t gotten their money back either and have lost money. You don`t see the Mayor of Moncton being hung and the people of Moncton running down their Mayor for losing the tax payers money during the Rolling Stones concert do you!!

Wes, There is a huge difference between the way that Moncton conducts the concert business and the way that Peter Kelly and Halifax has gone about it.

The following is recopied from the "Maritime Concert Scene" thread and originates from the Moncton Times & Transcript.

from "the Sleuth"

Mag Hill looks good with Halifax's concert spending scandal
Published Saturday March 19th, 2011

Your schaden-meister feels kinda badly for former concert impresario Harold McKay - a nice guy who did, after all, bring a couple of highly successful country & western shows to our Hill in recent years - but is delighted with the newsy upshot of Mr. McKay's unfortunate legal battles with Halifax Regional Municipality and its tourism-related subsidiary company Trade Centre Ltd.

A veritable army of spies have reported in this week after the Halifax news media broke stories about legal troubles among these three parties after the municipality secretly handed out $400,000 in 'forgivable loans' after Mr. McKay threatened to pull the plug on two big shows he put on last summer on the Halifax Commons.

Although McKay has not declared bankruptcy, he says he can't repay the 'loan' and it being 'forgivable' and all, taxpayers are now on the hook for what amounts to a $395,000 grant since McKay only repaid $5,000 by the time he (apparently) shut down his company.

Previously HRM and TLC have vigorously denied ever using public money to directly pay bands and promoters, long an irritant for the City of Moncton's municipal government, which has had one smashing success after another at our own Magnetic Hill concert site starting with a Rolling Stones concert here in 2005.

The City of Moncton and its tourism/recreation director Ian Fowler have also secured public money for concerts, but used the money to build concert infrastructure on the Hill rather than, in effect, bribing bands to come here.

The news out of Halifax is thus a vindication for Mr. Fowler and the rest of our gang but there's a whole lot more to the story, say my spies.

Haligonian agent Li'l Sister says although former HRM municipal manager Wayne Anstey has recently cited his role in the fiasco as at least part of the reason for his 'early retirement' HRM's citizens are still "absolutely furious" and want Mayor Peter Kelly to resign.

Kelly is hanging in there so far, says Sis, "but this isn't going away." It's not just citizens but big interest groups that want the mayor's head, especially small business owners which have been refused start-up assistance from HRM while it hands out $400,000 to musical groups. "The good citizens of Halifax are ready to drop-kick him into our cold and stinky harbor," says our spy.

But wait, says Monctonian internet spy She-Wolf, there's still more.

The Wolf has dug up some amazing stuff in allnovascotia.com, a news website owned in part by David Bentley of Frank Magazine fame.

The website has a feature called 'Who's Suing Who' and in it She-Wolf finds a legal battle in which Mr. McKay is accused of grossly inflating attendance figures at those same shows on the Commons last year. McKay claimed 30,000 people showed up for the Alan Jackson country show and 25,000 for the Black Eyed Peas, but TLC says the real numbers, actual ticket sales, are only 10,090 for Jackson and a mere 8,362 for the Peas. As well, a Power Promotions show the summer before featuring Paul McCartney was claimed by McKay to have attracted 50,000 people while 26,504 actually showed, says TLC.

The amusing thing about all this for Moncton interests is that McKay and TLC both claimed the big numbers previously, trying to appear as if they are in a league with such Hill attendance figures as 80,000 for the Stones and 70,000 for AC/DC a couple of years ago. Other shows on the Hill since 2005? 2006 Alan Jackson (45,000), 2007 Faith Hill/Tim McGraw (50,000), 2008 The Eagles (55,000) and 2009 Bon Jovi (33,000). This summer's U2 concert is expected to top the 100,000 mark

The upshot of this Wes, is that Moncton has not used public monies to, in effect, bribe bands to play at Magnetic Hill. They have used the public investment instead to improve the infrastructure at the site.; things like laying a proper base for the staging, putting in permanent electrical and water hook-ups and creating public toilet facilities. This makes Magnetic Hill a very attractive venue for promoters and touring bands as it makes it much easier for them to set up on site and decreases their overall costs of bringing their productions to Moncton.

It's a win-win situation. The city of Moncton gets permanent infrastructure and the promoters get decreased cost of doing business. Meanwhile in Halifax it's more of a lose-lose situation. You have nothing to show for your investment except the torn up turf on the Commons that you have to repair year after year and you get bad publicity and a faint whiff of scandal.....

The fact that the promoters in Halifax falsely inflated the attendance figures at your concerts only makes it worse......

The only reason why I bring this up Wes is because you brought Moncton into the discussion with your arguement that Moncton is just as bad at the concert business as Halifax. I only wish to refute your point. It is not my intention to put Halifax down.

Have a good day.

[spaustin]

Originally Posted by wespidel

Moncton`s Mayor has invested over 8 million dollars of tax payers money to stage big concerts and they haven`t gotten their money back either and have lost money. You don`t see the Mayor of Moncton being hung and the people of Moncton running down their Mayor for losing the tax payers money during the Rolling Stones concert do you!

I'll venture a thought, Moncton's mayor undoubtedly had the money spent with the approval of Moncton's Council. Kelly hid the concert funds from HRM council. Moncton spent their money on upgrading facilities whereas HRM shuffled money to the concert promoter which violates the Charter (too bad the Charter is toothless). Moncton's spending was all above board, ours was carried out secretly in backroom dealings. In an alternative universe where Kelly had the municipality's money spent on building facilities for concerts on the Common after securing a vote from HRM council everyone is happy. Sadly that didn't happen. The mayor has shown very poor judgement and I would argue poor ethics. He should resign.


Edit: Monctonrad, you beat me to it! Some rabid partisans will forgive any sin.

[q12]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The fact that the promoters in Halifax falsely inflated the attendance figures at your concerts only makes it worse......

This makes me laugh. The numbers have been inflated in Moncton too. Many other cities inflate their numbers as it is a common practice. Luckily they don't have a scandal to expose it. Notice the "rounded figures" as if exactly 50,000 people attended. I smell same old Moncton B.S.

This thread is getting off topic by the way.

[FuzzyWuz]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

He has scored the rare trifecta of being guilty of misfeasance, malfeasance and nonfeasance.

Harry? Harry Flemming?? Is that you?

[FuzzyWuz]

That was a lighthearted reference to HF's love of a good and colorful turn of phrase. Don't take it as anything worse, please.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by q12

This makes me laugh. The numbers have been inflated in Moncton too. Many other cities inflate their numbers as it is a common practice. Luckily they don't have a scandal to expose it. Notice the "rounded figures" as if exactly 50,000 people attended. I smell same old Moncton B.S.

I imagine the T&T can be accused of "rounding", which isn't necessarily the same thing as "inflating", and not everything that comes out of Moncton is BS BTW.

[q12]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I imagine the T&T can be accused of "rounding", which isn't necessarily the same thing as "inflating", and not everything that comes out of Moncton is BS BTW.

The point is there has been no exact figure given therefore these numbers are inflated.

Maybe not everything coming out of Moncton is BS but certainly any editorial out of that Irving owned newspaper is.

The best was the proposed 19,000 (or somewhere around that number) seat arena they once reported.

[someone123]

Yeah, this is off-topic. There is a concert thread here: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=154354&page=4

[Empire]

Originally Posted by wespidel

Do you know what happened to the money? No but I can guarantee you, that it didn`t end up in Mayor Kelly`s hands so what are you talking about. It was a deal made between Anstey who overruled the Mayor and his concert promoter MacKay and is good buddy Scot Fergerson. You didn`t here Fergerson scrambling on talk radio, did you! He`s knows a lot more than he`s saying and there is definitely something fishy going on, just by his responses. So why are you blaming the Mayor. How would you two like it if you were excused and abused when you were innocent and your job was threatened and you both were being run in the ground. All you people are all the same, you knockers, and attackers! Your nothing but negative ignorant cruel people that can`t say anything good about anyone or feel for decent people and have no respect for anyone. We don`t need people like you in our city who do nothing but run people down, why don`t you put all your energy into running yourselfs down and let better people than yourselfs alone!

By the way I don`t want any more ignorant remarks directed towards myself either, from both of you! Why don`t you just get off the site, we don`t need ignorant people like you on here, you knockers!

Sorry if you`re not good people, take your cruel and bad manners somewheres else! We only want positive people here that don`t attack people and make rude remarks about our Mayor when he a good person and doesn`t deserve to be abused like people like you nor other decent people on here!

wespidel............The picture is becoming much clearer now!

[wespidel]

How you`re hanging Halifax and Mayor Kelly, guys stop the foolishness, you`re acting like a bunch of kids. I wasn`t knocking Moncton, I was purely stating a fact that the concert promoter needed and wanted financial support as well from the city of Moncton and got in. It doesn`t matter how it was implemented, it`s still Moncton`s taxpayers money they invested to help the concert promoter and to help the city Moncton to be successfu as well. It was a joint venture and I have no problem with it. I think it was a good thing and it`s surely helped Moncton`s concert successes! Good for Moncton! Personally there is enough hate in the world! I`m sure Moncton Rad and others, including myself don`t want to classified as a hater because there is abundance of haters out there!

So I think we all should stop in our tracks and only express positive and productive and encouraging comments!