[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[beyeas]

You won't get an argument from me that I have been disappointed with the NDP in NS as well. My rant is not directed at the Conservatives persay, but with politics. I cannot stand a process that puts personal political gain above all while pretending publicly to be acting for the good of the people. The fact is, our entire so called democratic system is broken, and every one of the parties can share the blame. I do think that the NDP caucus spent too much time wringing their hands and catering to the Epsteins of the party, and I also think that The Harper Government will potentially play politics with this and not fund it out of spite.

[DigitalNinja]

It's a fact that if you aren't in a riding that is the same as the feds it is more unlikely that you are going to get fed money. It doesn't matter if it's PC, LIB, NDP or the pansy green party. It's acceptable, it's like saying you give the same amount of money to your rival as your family. Just doesn't happen.

[beyeas]

It may be a fact, and it is totally true that they all do it (Ignatief saying that he will fund an arena is just another example of crass voter blackmail), but that still doesn't justify it.

Politicians are NOT supposed to be elected to only look after the people who voted for them, pure and simple.

They aren't giving money to their "rival" (their rival is the opposition), they are giving money to the citizens of the country whose taxes are worth just as much as the taxes paid in other ridings. The constitution does not read that the government is elected to serve only those who voted for it.

Simply saying that it is reality is why politicians can and do continue with this... people just shrug their shoulders and say Oh well I guess that's just how it is. It doesn't make it right. Apparently it is a radical suggestion to say that decisions should be made on the basis of whether they are "right".

[someone123]

It's also not their money they're handing out...

I agree that it's a very messed up system and that voters should demand something better.

[beyeas]

To steer it somewhat back towards the Nova Centre, the decision on this should be based purely on the merits of this project. If the project has a solid plan and will benefit the region, it should go ahead if there is money available within the budget. If it doesn't, then it should not.

Like I said before, people are only really in favour of the current system when it benefits them.

I will consider changing my mind on that when Keith starts advocating that we need an NDP leaning Mayor to help win concessions from the province because of course the province should only give money to those municipalities with a similar leaning government. People certainly have said that we need should have voted PC provincially to get a better deal from the current federal government! And I am sure *insert dripping sarcasm here* that back when Chretien/Martin were in power Keith was telling everyone that we should be voting Liberal provincially... right?

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Hardly. The Coast is trying to create an issue because they do not want the CC to go ahead. The reality is that the misbehavior here was done by the mayor and HRM. In fact, TCL told the province about the money being flipped to Power Promotions when it occurred. It was HRM who tried to keep it quiet.

The Coast, CBC TV and Radio, CTV, News 95.7, Metronews, Allnovascotia.com all conspiring. Yep. Its the blamestream liberal media, right?

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

The Coast, CBC TV and Radio, CTV, News 95.7, Metronews, Allnovascotia.com all conspiring. Yep. Its the blamestream liberal media, right?

What are you talking about? The only time any of those other media outlets have aired the "Scott Ferguson is responsible for this" BS is when Bousquet has been on as a guest. He is the only one I have heard trying to tie some sort of alleged misbehavior by TCL to a bizarre rationale as to why the CC should not proceed.

If there is any reason not to fund the CC coming out of this it should be due to lack of confidence in Peter Kelly.

[fenwick16]

It seems like the majority of HRM residents still support the convention centre.

http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/local/article/806146--most-hrm-residents-give-centre-thumbs-up

Most HRM residents give centre thumbs up

METRO
Published: March 18, 2011 12:01 a.m.
Last modified: March 17, 2011 9:42 p.m.

The majority of HRM residents are either “completely” or “mostly” in support of the development of a new convention centre for downtown Halifax, a survey reveals.

The poll conducted by Corporate Research Associates says 19 per cent agree completely and 39 per cent mostly support the proposed development.

One-third of residents are either mostly (20 per cent) or completely (13 per cent) opposed.

The poll conducted last month saw 403 adults surveyed. The margin of error is plus-or-minus 4.9 per cent.

Also from the Chronicle Herald:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1233468.html

Concert scandal doesn’t cause ripples in Ottawa
Issue shouldn’t hurt convention centre funding — MPs
By STEPHEN MAHER Ottawa Bureau
Thu, Mar 17 - 4:54 AM

OTTAWA — MPs say the scandal at Halifax city hall over unauthorized payments to a concert promoter should not give the federal government reason to kill a request for convention centre funding.

Wayne Anstey, the acting chief administrative officer for Halifax Regional Municipality, announced Wednesday that he plans to retire June 30. The announcement came one day after councillors learned that Anstey had authorized $400,000 in secret payments to a concert promoter who later went broke.

Peter Stoffer, the NDP MP for Sackville-Eastern Shore who has mused in the past about running for Mayor Peter Kelly’s job someday, said Wednesday the story looks bad, but it doesn’t mean Halifax Regional Municipality isn’t capable of playing its role in the convention centre project.
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There doesn't seem to be any sort of conspiracy against the new convention centre (just wishful thinking by the naysayers). It is just a question of whether or not an election is called before the funding goes through. We will know by Tuesday, March 22.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

It seems like the majority of HRM residents still support the convention centre.

http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/local/article/806146--most-hrm-residents-give-centre-thumbs-up


Also from the Chronicle Herald:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1233468.html


There doesn't seem to be any sort of conspiracy against the new convention centre (just wishful thinking by the naysayers). It is just a question of whether or not an election is called before the funding goes through. We will know by Tuesday, March 22.

It would be interesting to see the questions to the survey.

[Haliguy]

There is suppose to be an anouncement at Stadocona tomorrow by Peter Mackay and Peter MacKay is speaking to the Halifax Chamber on Wednesday two possible opportunities to announce funding.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by sdm

It would be interesting to see the questions to the survey.

It seems to be a fairly straight forward question. This is the question that was asked: (source: http://cra.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Support-for-Halifax-Convention-Centre-Continues.pdf - see the table at the bottom) As you may or may not be aware, the provincial government recently decided to proceed with the new convention centre in Downtown Halifax. All things considered, do you completely support, mostly support, mostly oppose, or completely oppose the development of the new convention centre in Downtown Halifax?

The results don't really surprise me - surveys conducted previously through the HRM have shown that the majority of people in the HRM are in favour of positive development (the HRM survey was completely independent of the convention centre). I think what the Save the View group has done in twisting the truth is very unethical. It is time, in my opinion, for such groups to be charged with being a "public nuisance" which is a real criminal charge - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_nuisance . These groups, by their misinformation, are doing serious harm to the HRM and Nova Scotia economy, resulting in the loss of easily hundreds of jobs. I don't see how such harm can be continuously overlooked.

[resetcbu1]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Totally agree. I'd also add that the facebook group that save the view has isn't willing to be open to looking at other points of view as I posted a video TCL did on the benefits of an expanded convention centre.
Without any warning - I was kicked off the group and now can't even see it on my facebook list. Nice...but no surprise.

I also got the boot from there for almost exactly the same thing, I posted a few vids that supported the CC and weighed different pro's vs con's mostly PRO lol... I never made any personal attacks just shared my opinion in the same they force their's and I got kicked off , I acctually noyiced quite a few people om there call them on their BS good to see!

[resetcbu1]

what are the chances that the city and province could split the differance if the feds back down on this? they both seem very supportive as are many residents.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

It seems to be a fairly straight forward question. This is the question that was asked: (source: http://cra.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Support-for-Halifax-Convention-Centre-Continues.pdf - see the table at the bottom) As you may or may not be aware, the provincial government recently decided to proceed with the new convention centre in Downtown Halifax. All things considered, do you completely support, mostly support, mostly oppose, or completely oppose the development of the new convention centre in Downtown Halifax?

The results don't really surprise me - surveys conducted previously through the HRM have shown that the majority of people in the HRM are in favour of positive development (the HRM survey was completely independent of the convention centre). I think what the Save the View group has done in twisting the true is very unethical. It is time, in my opinion, for such groups to be charged with being a "public nuisance" which is a real criminal charge - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_nuisance . These groups, by their misinformation, are doing serious harm to the HRM and Nova Scotia economy, resulting in the loss of easily hundreds of jobs. I don't see how such harm can be continuously overlooked.

I find the survey questions are bit misleading as many may support a new convention centre downtown, but not on the tax payers bill. Or many may support but not in this site or design.

and the sample size is not an accurate reflection of the general public and any stats major could blow this survey apart. That said i still find more are against it then for within the business i deal with.

[MonctonRad]

Sorry, wrong thread

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by sdm

I find the survey questions are bit misleading as many may support a new convention centre downtown, but not on the tax payers bill. Or many may support but not in this site or design.

and the sample size is not an accurate reflection of the general public and any stats major could blow this survey apart. That said i still find more are against it then for within the business i deal with.

If people don't take that stuff into consideration when asked this question than they must be living under a rock. This information has been all over the media. The question does say "all things considered" which to me means considering the price, location, etc.

[FuzzyWuz]

Something just occurred to me. Is something as specific as our convention center likely to be mentioned in the likely to fail budget? What I'm asking is could they make it a direct blackmail thing? Vote for us or no convention center?

[sdm]

Originally Posted by FuzzyWuz

Something just occurred to me. Is something as specific as our convention center likely to be mentioned in the likely to fail budget? What I'm asking is could they make it a direct blackmail thing? Vote for us or no convention center?

I assume you mean the federal budget? If so i doubt it.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by resetcbu1

I also got the boot from there for almost exactly the same thing, I posted a few vids that supported the CC and weighed different pro's vs con's mostly PRO lol... I never made any personal attacks just shared my opinion in the same they force their's and I got kicked off , I acctually noyiced quite a few people om there call them on their BS good to see!

I think it was you who I reposted the videos from. I saw you post them; then they deleted your post and then I reposted them. So much for being fair and open to other comments.

I was thinking about some comments made earlier about Halifax being an NDP strong hold and how that may have affected (or screwed) halifax from getting funding for projects. I'll be honest, I don't trust Harper. I never have and I never will and the fact all this stuff is hitting the fan now, I'm not surprised.

That being said, the way the system works doesn't seem to be fair. I would think that the community should be on a level playing field with all others when we submit a request for consideration, but of course that isn't the way it works. Do I think Halifax could get out of this? Maybe...it depends. I honestly don't know if the liberals would be any better but I don't think you would see Halifax go PC. It just doesn't seem possible. But if it went liberal and a liberal government were to be elected; then things might change.

Certainly the next few weeks will be interesting!

[spaustin]

The feds will undoubtedly fund the convention centre. They've provided money to pretty much every other municipality across the country that has asked (Ottawa, Charlottetown, Fredericton etc). Halifax may be a strong NDP bastion, but there are Tory seats in NS. Although people may be divided on the convention centre, there is nothing like being treated unfairly by an external party to bring everyone back together. There are no political points for the Tories in funding the convention centre, but there is a lot of risk if they opt not to.