[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by q12

http://www.halifaxnewsnet.ca/Blog-Article/b/12496/Ricks-Rants-Friday-March-4th2011

My somewhat fearless prediction - I think the announcement for the Nova Centre will come shortly after the March 22nd federal Conservative budget which I think will pass with federal NDP support. Once the budget passes, then federal Conservative members such as MP MacKay won't be worried about an election for another year. By that time the convention centre will be under construction and creating jobs in the Halifax area. Oil prices are going up which will increase the strength of the Canadian economy.

[Haliguy]

Estabrooks: Federal decision on Halifax trade centre 'imminent'

By DAVID JACKSON Provincial Reporter
Thu, Mar 10 - 12:19 PM

A federal decision on funding a new Halifax convention centre should come soon, says the provincial minister responsible for the file.

Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal Minister Bill Estabrooks said he met with federal infrastructure minister Chuck Strahl in Ottawa on Tuesday to discuss the project.

"Time is of the essence, you know, in the middle of the rumours about elections and various other things," Estabrooks said after this morning's cabinet meeting.

"I wanted to make it quite clear how important this issue was to us."

He said Strahl asked informed questions about the project, and the federal minister was aware of opposition to the project, including the Save the View coalition.

"It was a good discussion and the decision will be imminent," Estabrooks said.

The province and Halifax Regional Municipality are asking Ottawa for $47 million, one-third of the construction cost.

The other two levels of government have already committed to pay $56 million each, which would also cover interim financing costs for the project.

Developer Rank Inc.'s original deadline for the three levels of government to have their decisions made was mid-January, but that's been extended to mid-April.

There's heavy speculation that a federal election campaign will start before that. The federal budget is scheduled to be tabled March 22, and there could be a confidence vote on March 21

[MonctonRad]

The good news is that the "imminent" federal election may drive this file forward quite quickly.

The bad news is that Chuck Strahl is "well aware" of the STV opposition to this project.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The good news is that the "imminent" federal election may drive this file forward quite quickly.

The bad news is that Chuck Strahl is "well aware" of the STV opposition to this project.

Yeah that made me a bit nervous when I read that part.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The good news is that the "imminent" federal election may drive this file forward quite quickly.

The bad news is that Chuck Strahl is "well aware" of the STV opposition to this project.

I read it as him being "well aware" of the radicalized, crazy folks who are against the project.

Lets get this built and stop all the nonsense.

[beyeas]

yeah Strahl does not strike me as the sort of guy who would sympathize with anti-development wingnuts. He seems more a pro-business guy.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by beyeas

yeah Strahl does not strike me as the sort of guy who would sympathize with anti-development wingnuts. He seems more a pro-business guy.

Winning.

[hoser111]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Winning.

oh gawd.....don't you start! lol

[someone123]

In many ways the story of this project highlights the worst of Halifax -- obstructionists on the one hand and a navel-gazing media and public on the other. It's all been a fairly routine exercise and it will probably just be quietly approved but we hear excuse after excuse for why it shouldn't be built, won't due to STV (who are not terribly relevant or credible), etc. etc.

The negativity is seriously one of the biggest things that would keep me from moving back.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by beyeas

yeah Strahl does not strike me as the sort of guy who would sympathize with anti-development wingnuts. He seems more a pro-business guy.

Not worried about him...what worries me is that if they know there is a lot of controversy around they may not want to get involved. That being said am reasonably confidant they will come through.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by someone123

The negativity is seriously one of the biggest things that would keep me from moving back.

I sometimes wonder what it would take to overcome that negativity. If the Halifax area had 20 - 30 years of positive economic achievements then maybe the younger generation would see things differently.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I sometimes wonder what it would take to overcome that negativity. If the Halifax area had 20 - 30 years of positive economic achievements then maybe the younger generation would see things differently.

Simple.

Leadership and fresh blood leading this city.

[HRM]

October 20, 2012 cannot come soon enough.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by sdm

Simple.

Leadership and fresh blood leading this city.

However, much of the negativity comes from naysayers who oppose everything. So even having a more progressive leader will only stir up more negativity from the naysayers.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

However, much of the negativity comes from naysayers who oppose everything. So even having a more progressive leader will only stir up more negativity from the naysayers.

I don't think this is true over the long term and even if it were I don't think it would be important.

Partly there is a chicken and egg problem where more talented people leave the city for greater opportunity. It takes a lot of will power to deal with groups like STV and horrible HRM (and NS) bureaucracy when you can just go somewhere else. It's sad but the environment really is much better in many other cities. All else being equal there is far less negativity and resistance to change in Toronto, Vancouver, or Calgary, for example.

I agree about 2012, and hopefully the NSUARB will cut back on the size of council. The gong show needs to go.

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by someone123

The negativity is seriously one of the biggest things that would keep me from moving back.

It's the biggest thing turning me off about Halifax, honestly. I've been enjoying pretty much everything else.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by hoser111

oh gawd.....don't you start! lol

Sorry... I just can't stand being trolled by the STV/HT crowd who will stop at nothing to derail this project.

I can already hear these folks saying "the war has just begun" when this gets approved.

Sdm doesn't think a venue such as a trade/convention centre will work... but I think its a good model. Any type of conference could be held here cheaper and in closer proximity than other events.

The BC examples of trade centres aren't even close to Chicago, Toronto, NYC, etc. Its a joke to me that a legit Halifax venue would fail. We do have a bit of "vegas" cache and are close to europe for EU business matching.

Lets be real... the "Canada Games Centre" is already pulling in events as a recreation venue... I can't see us doing too bad for legit events.

Basing any kind of "event promotion" on recessionary numbers isn't correct.

Lets not hate on ourselves, there are pretty decent numbers for a few sectors in Halifax... why not have world class events regarding them?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by someone123

I don't think this is true over the long term and even if it were I don't think it would be important.

Partly there is a chicken and egg problem where more talented people leave the city for greater opportunity. It takes a lot of will power to deal with groups like STV and horrible HRM (and NS) bureaucracy when you can just go somewhere else. It's sad but the environment really is much better in many other cities. All else being equal there is far less negativity and resistance to change in Toronto, Vancouver, or Calgary, for example.

I agree about 2012, and hopefully the NSUARB will cut back on the size of council. The gong show needs to go.

Although I understand what you are saying, just imagine being a politician in the Halifax area and having to deal with organizations like the CBC and Chronicle Herald which continues to interview the Save the View group. The only reason why this group has any standing in the community is because of a disproportionate amount of media time.

However, in spite of what I just said, there is some merit to listening to such groups as the Heritage Trust since they have in some ways made Halifax a better place to live. For example, such groups were able to stop the highway through downtown Halifax 40 years ago (Harbour Drive). This would have been a disaster for Halifax since it would have cut the city off from the Harbour. However, the Heritage Trust can go too far when they start fighting to save a view from the Citadel. Especially when they start twisting the truth.

I think that Vancouver is a good example of a progressive city that is also a livable city. Toronto went too far - it has a highway cutting through the city, which many would like to see demolished (the Gardener Expressway), it has impressive structures like the Rogers Centre (Skydome) which was a fiscal disaster, and it has very little in terms of heritage buildings (I don't think anyone would call Toronto a historic city even though it was established in 1793 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto ). In some ways Toronto has grown too fast for the good of the city.

I have been impressed by Mayor Kelly over the past year. He has supported the new convention centre, the Central Library and a stadium in spite of all the negativity. I have also seen compromise from Councillors who we previously considered to be anti-development. A balance has to be found between development and heritage preservation without causing stagnation in areas such as downtown Halifax.

I want to see what happens in Halifax over the coming year before condemning the entire HRM council. Personally, I know that I would be a basket case now if I were the one dealing with all the special interest groups. PS: Many of us thought the HRM was very professional in the manner with which they dealt with the provincial government regarding the convention centre. Unfortunately the delay by the NDP government in approving it may cause extensive delays if there is a federal election called in March.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Although I understand what you are saying, just imagine being a politician in the Halifax area and having to deal with organizations like the CBC and Chronicle Herald which continues to interview the Save the View group. The only reason why this group has any standing in the community is because of a disproportionate amount of media time.

However, in spite of what I just said, there is some merit to listening to such groups as the Heritage Trust since they have in some ways made Halifax a better place to live. For example, such groups were able to stop the highway through downtown Halifax 40 years ago (Harbour Drive). This would have been a disaster for Halifax since it would have cut the city off from the Harbour. However, the Heritage Trust can go too far when they start fighting to save a view from the Citadel. Especially when they start twisting the truth.

I think that Vancouver is a good example of a progressive city that is also a livable city. Toronto went too far - it has a highway cutting through the city, which many would like to see demolished (the Gardener Expressway), it has impressive structures like the Rogers Centre (Skydome) which was a fiscal disaster, and it has very little in terms of heritage buildings (I don't think anyone would call Toronto a historic city even though it was established in 1793 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto ). In some ways Toronto has grown too fast for the good of the city.

I have been impressed by Mayor Kelly over the past year. He has supported the new convention centre, the Central Library and a stadium in spite of all the negativity. I have also seen compromise from Councillors who we previously considered to be anti-development. A balance has to be found between development and heritage preservation without causing stagnation in areas such as downtown Halifax.

I want to see what happens in Halifax over the coming year before condemning the entire HRM council. Personally, I know that I would be a basket case now if I were the one dealing with all the special interest groups.

For sure, the special interest groups are so rediculously one-sided its changed the whole political dynamic. Anything over 9 stories, you gotta be ready for a battle.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I think that Vancouver is a good example of a progressive city that is also a livable city. Toronto went too far - it has a highway cutting through the city, which many would like to see demolished (the Gardener Expressway), it has impressive structures like the Rogers Centre (Skydome) which was a fiscal disaster, and it has very little in terms of heritage buildings (I don't think anyone would call Toronto a historic city even though it was established in 1793 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto ). In some ways Toronto has grown too fast for the good of the city.

A lot of that is just a function of when the cities grew. Vancouver did not really become a major city until around the 1980s. Toronto came of age in the 1960s and 70s, a low point for urban planning in some ways.

Founding dates can be misleading. When Toronto was founded in 1793 it was a small village. Halifax started with a population of around 3,000 settlers and Nova Scotia was more populated. This is why Halifax has major public buildings from around 1800 while Toronto does not. Halifax has the third most impressive heritage buildings in the country after Montreal and Quebec City. Had heritage preservation been better Halifax might have been close to Quebec City. It frustrates me that despite the anti-development climate Halifax has also done a poor job of protecting its heritage. Many people believe that development and heritage protection are mutually exclusive but the reality is that this is wrong and the fight has left the city with the downsides of both supposed options, sub-par new buildings and demolished heritage buildings.

I agree that public figures in Halifax have a difficult job. I will even admit that I have been happier with Kelly lately. I do blame the media for a lot of this -- it seems like they have even slid backwards in some cases. The Coast is worse than what I remember from 5-10 years ago, although I guess it was always a platform for rambling columnists.