LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[LAofAnaheim]

LAB...fantastic news and photo update!

Since I didn't respond in a couple of days, I just backtracked a bit and saw the mention of the slow running light rail trains. It's true the Gold Line has slow speeds on the East LA portion and the curve speed only increased from 10 mph to 15 mph in early 2010 after complaints, so don't expect it to go any faster than it currently does. It just functionally cannot go faster than 15 mph (and it usually averages between 6 - 10 mph in reality) due to the curves.

The Highland Park / Mariom Way speed restriction will not change. It was placed by Metro due to neighborhood concerns. Just like how the Expo Line will stop at Farmdale intersection, but this time the station will make it appear that the stop was meant there. Otherwise, there could have been a ridiculous stop-proceed resolution, which would have made the regular passengers wonder why it always stops at Farmdale.

Now, the Blue Line speed shortcoming is not so bad in LA. From my understanding, LA has synchronized the lights on the Washington boulevard segment so the Blue Line can hit all green lights towards the Alameda corridor. It's the Long Beach portion that's slow as molasses. Somebody quoted that it takes 15 minutes to travel 3 miles in Long Beach when it hits street running. That's your real problem with the Blue Line. Long Beach sabotaged the light rail train and made it into streetcar operations in the LBC. The hope is that Expo Line gets the Washington blvd treatment and not Eastside Gold Line though...

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

LAB, great updates! the Okada building is a disaster. its just plain horrible looking. hopefully the new owners will clean it up and change the facade. Im also looking forward to the exterior of Mas Malo being cleaned up a bit and im hoping they do something interesting with the exterior. Good to see some changes at the LA athletic club, but the main problem with that building is the ground level. it needs to be redone. Go back to the original facade and get rid of the metal and other crap that doesnt fit (that goes for about 50% of building in DTLA). im hearing that the ground floor spaces may be leased out soon.

There is another new bar/restaurant that will be opening next to sugarfish and directly across from Bottega and Chipotle. i saw the notice posted but havent had a chance to read it yet, maybe tonight and ill update everyone here on whats going on.

Great news about the Green Hut and 7 11 and i have some inside info that i cant pass on yet, but another possible lease will be signed shortly on 7th in that vicinity...

After seeing all the activity at night during the Thursday - saturday rush, im really really surprised that we havent seen any retail move into DT LA. the disposal income is there and the people will come. its obvious now and i think were at the tipping point.

[LAsam]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

After seeing all the activity at night during the Thursday - saturday rush, im really really surprised that we havent seen any retail move into DT LA. the disposal income is there and the people will come. its obvious now and i think were at the tipping point.

Don't forget the 7+Fig renovation which includes Target coming downtown. The other developers could be taking a wait and see approach.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Originally Posted by LAsam

Don't forget the 7+Fig renovation which includes Target coming downtown. The other developers could be taking a wait and see approach.

It may be a little complicated even AFTER Target and other retailers open at the newly renovated 7+FIG mall. The reason is because most retailers are like sheep. They like to follow each other and be very close together, forming a synergy.

However, 7+FIG is not surrounded by much vacant retail spaces. Quite the contrary, most of Figueroa is bombed out, just look at the empty lot across from 7+FIG (at 8th/Fig). It's unfortunate because 7+FIG would have been a GREAT opportunity to create enough critical mass to build from that success. But where would "spill over" retail be able to lease space still close by to the mall?

Most of 7th Street has already been leased out by new restaurants. THE ONLY place that would still be close enough to take advantage of the new 7+FIG is Macy's Plaza. However, it will take another company with a lot more vision and different philosophy than Jamison Properties.

If we can get another company to buy Macy's Plaza and reinvent it, that could be ENOUGH leaseable square footage to make a difference in the retail landscape of DTLA and start to really form a shopping district on 7th Street.

It makes the most sense to "direct" our shopping area to be along 7th Street and environs because it's right smack in the middle of DTLA (like a bulls eye in a target). Shopping areas are always the most busy areas of any city center, so it would make a lot of planning sense to have most of the constant energy around the 7th/Metro subway station portals. Then as the shopping generates enough foot traffic, businesses will start to ripple out from there and it will eventually meld together with the two strong anchors of LA Live to the south and Music Center to the north.

But you have to have buildings with retail spaces first. We don't have a lot of retail spaces on 7th Street near 7+FIG to funnel energy from there.

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by LAsam

Don't forget the 7+Fig renovation which includes Target coming downtown. The other developers could be taking a wait and see approach.

That's what I think will happen, too. Like how after the L.A. Live hotels opened, all the other major hotels underwent renovations to keep from losing business. Competition is good in that regard. I would expect to see all the other major retail areas undergoing renovations to keep from loosing business, too. Personally, I would like to see them renovate Macy's Plaza, which you may know I HATE. Something like they did at the quite lovely new Santa Monica Place, where they add new pedestrian entrances and the like. Example:

Before:

(ignore the girl)

After:

[pesto]

It's true that Macy's DT is reminiscent of the Glendale Galleria or Beverly Center. But doesn't the new SM Place = the Grove = Americana? Are we looking for street retail ala much of NY and SF, or more mall style shopping in the Caruso style? LA Live is a sort of compromise, part mall, part street retail, in the Caruso style but glitzy modern rather than faux French. How street friendly is LA Central or it successor going to be?

Somewhere I talked about Jtown a few weeks ago, but I'll repeat myself. It is already booming day and night and so is the Arts District. Now the idea is to seamlessly connect them by improving traffic and streetscape on Alameda, getting some outdoors life at the brewery; getting the "fortress" like shopping centers to open to the street. It should be a pleasant, people-filled stroll from Caltrans to at least Wurstkuche. Lots of tourist potential as well.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by BrighamYen

It may be a little complicated even AFTER Target and other retailers open at the newly renovated 7+FIG mall. The reason is because most retailers are like sheep. They like to follow each other and be very close together, forming a synergy.

However, 7+FIG is not surrounded by much vacant retail spaces. Quite the contrary, most of Figueroa is bombed out, just look at the empty lot across from 7+FIG (at 8th/Fig). It's unfortunate because 7+FIG would have been a GREAT opportunity to create enough critical mass to build from that success. But where would "spill over" retail be able to lease space still close by to the mall?

Most of 7th Street has already been leased out by new restaurants. THE ONLY place that would still be close enough to take advantage of the new 7+FIG is Macy's Plaza. However, it will take another company with a lot more vision and different philosophy than Jamison Properties.

If we can get another company to buy Macy's Plaza and reinvent it, that could be ENOUGH leaseable square footage to make a difference in the retail landscape of DTLA and start to really form a shopping district on 7th Street.

It makes the most sense to "direct" our shopping area to be along 7th Street and environs because it's right smack in the middle of DTLA (like a bulls eye in a target). Shopping areas are always the most busy areas of any city center, so it would make a lot of planning sense to have most of the constant energy around the 7th/Metro subway station portals. Then as the shopping generates enough foot traffic, businesses will start to ripple out from there and it will eventually meld together with the two strong anchors of LA Live to the south and Music Center to the north.

But you have to have buildings with retail spaces first. We don't have a lot of retail spaces on 7th Street near 7+FIG to funnel energy from there.

couldnt agree more. The Macys needs to be renovated asap, and if Jameson properties was smart, they would be doing it. what a waste of an ideal opportunity. Maybe our Downtown representatives can contact them. i tried and got no response.


Btw, the upcoming restaurant next to Sugarfish has its ABC license pending, thats what the notification was, as does the new restaurant where the Carls' jr was. Also, the corner space in the Roosevelt, which has the blacked out windows is almost complete. if i had to guess, i would say its going to be an Italian restaurant

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by LAofAnaheim

LAB...fantastic news and photo update!

Since I didn't respond in a couple of days, I just backtracked a bit and saw the mention of the slow running light rail trains. It's true the Gold Line has slow speeds on the East LA portion and the curve speed only increased from 10 mph to 15 mph in early 2010 after complaints, so don't expect it to go any faster than it currently does. It just functionally cannot go faster than 15 mph (and it usually averages between 6 - 10 mph in reality) due to the curves.

The Highland Park / Mariom Way speed restriction will not change. It was placed by Metro due to neighborhood concerns. Just like how the Expo Line will stop at Farmdale intersection, but this time the station will make it appear that the stop was meant there. Otherwise, there could have been a ridiculous stop-proceed resolution, which would have made the regular passengers wonder why it always stops at Farmdale.

Now, the Blue Line speed shortcoming is not so bad in LA. From my understanding, LA has synchronized the lights on the Washington boulevard segment so the Blue Line can hit all green lights towards the Alameda corridor. It's the Long Beach portion that's slow as molasses. Somebody quoted that it takes 15 minutes to travel 3 miles in Long Beach when it hits street running. That's your real problem with the Blue Line. Long Beach sabotaged the light rail train and made it into streetcar operations in the LBC. The hope is that Expo Line gets the Washington blvd treatment and not Eastside Gold Line though...

The key term here is "street running." When the first leg of the Gold Line opened, I read that the trains running on the section through Highland Park along Marmion Way could only go 15-20 miles an hour, or "streetcar" speed, because it was considered street running. For light rail to go much faster, it really needs to be in its own dedicated right-of-way.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

couldnt agree more. The Macys needs to be renovated asap, and if Jameson properties was smart, they would be doing it. what a waste of an ideal opportunity. Maybe our Downtown representatives can contact them. i tried and got no response.


Btw, the upcoming restaurant next to Sugarfish has its ABC license pending, thats what the notification was, as does the new restaurant where the Carls' jr was. Also, the corner space in the Roosevelt, which has the blacked out windows is almost complete. if i had to guess, i would say its going to be an Italian restaurant

Unfortunately, Jamison Properties has been notorious for not being proactive about their properties. They really do as little maintenance as possible (hence why the CRA wanted to move out of the Banco Popular building), but at the same time, their rents are generally lower, so they don't have too much problems filling them up and getting cash flow in. And that's their model. Cash is king. The only property they felt they had to make some major improvements on was the California Mart in the Fashion District. But if you remember, everyone in the community sorta felt nervous about Jamison purchasing the property because of their reputation for not really investing back in their own buildings and that Cal Mart needed to be revamped to stay competitive and it was also such an important building in the Fashion District. Luckily Jamison did. It was definitely a sigh of relief and a surprise.

It's REALLY unfortunate that CIM Group didn't win the bid on the Macy's Plaza as they were vying to purchase it at the same time as Jamison. CIM Group had an ambitious plan to turn the mall "inside out." They wanted to completely remodel Macy's Plaza. It would have changed DTLA even more since Macy's Plaza is in such a strategic location (being right outside two of the busiest subway portals in the entire system on Flower and Hope). Right now, unfortunately, transit riders come out to such an ugly sight when it could be amazing. Imagine a future where transit riders come out immediately to shopping, dining, etc.

Hopefully, Jamison will do us all a favor by selling the property for a profit and letting someone else come in and remodel the mall to take advantage of the new Target and possibly other higher end retailers expected to sign leases at the new 7+FIG.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Originally Posted by pesto

It's true that Macy's DT is reminiscent of the Glendale Galleria or Beverly Center. But doesn't the new SM Place = the Grove = Americana? Are we looking for street retail ala much of NY and SF, or more mall style shopping in the Caruso style? LA Live is a sort of compromise, part mall, part street retail, in the Caruso style but glitzy modern rather than faux French. How street friendly is LA Central or it successor going to be?

Somewhere I talked about Jtown a few weeks ago, but I'll repeat myself. It is already booming day and night and so is the Arts District. Now the idea is to seamlessly connect them by improving traffic and streetscape on Alameda, getting some outdoors life at the brewery; getting the "fortress" like shopping centers to open to the street. It should be a pleasant, people-filled stroll from Caltrans to at least Wurstkuche. Lots of tourist potential as well.

SM Place is NOT the Grove or Americana because 1) it isn't trying to copy any classic faux architecture (it's just modern) and 2) it's VERY well integrated into an existing grid system that actually enhances pedestrian circulation as it encourages people to exit or enter the mall from many different access points along almost all sides of the mall. The new SM Place is the best thing that has happened to Santa Monica since 3rd Street Promenade. And will only get better (more vibrant and energetic) as the Expo Line terminates across the street from Bloomingdales and the City of SM plans to widen the sidewalks along Colorado St all the way to the pier. Oh and don't forget about the freeway cap park that will help connect the Civic Center with the shopping district (akin to Pasadena where its Civic Center is tied in more with the surrounding downtown area). Santa Monica is really maturing quite nicely.

It's more akin to the SF Westfield Shopping Centre that is connected to Union Square. Americana and the Grove currently are more insular (a lot of blank walls and poor access from the street) and do have questionable taste in architecture design. It looks very wanna be.

[LA/OCman]

A couple of weeks ago I was walking down 7th Street and a group of six young, hip, Asian guys stopped me (they were tourists) and asked me where they could find a shop for clothes. I mentioned Macy's Plaza and they said they were there and would like to find a place for clothes for younger guys. I directed them to 6th Street/Spring to visit Crack Gallery...cool clothes, not expensive. We need more places like this. You find some in the historic core and Little Tokyo...but I really had to think this one out. I notice so many more tourists from Europe and Asia now. We need Melrose-type shops on every block. I also would love to see a Bloomingdale's like they have in SOHO...smaller, urban.

[pesto]

Originally Posted by LA/OCman

A couple of weeks ago I was walking down 7th Street and a group of six young, hip, Asian guys stopped me (they were tourists) and asked me where they could find a shop for clothes. I mentioned Macy's Plaza and they said they were there and would like to find a place for clothes for younger guys. I directed them to 6th Street/Spring to visit Crack Gallery...cool clothes, not expensive. We need more places like this. You find some in the historic core and Little Tokyo...but I really had to think this one out. I notice so many more tourists from Europe and Asia now. We need Melrose-type shops on every block. I also would love to see a Bloomingdale's like they have in SOHO...smaller, urban.

Melrose style in DT I can easily see and that makes sense (Hermes not so much). The Fashion District would be ripe for this sort of thing and so would Bway and other areas.

Brigham: Have to disagree. SM Place has fortress entries on 3 sides and a very blah 3-story mall entrance. It also has massive central escaltors and very much a mall vibe (the multiple levels, the mega-sized themed "fun" restaurants, the mall brand stores, the direct access parking). Better than the old place but a very sad failure at being "urban" compared to what it could have been. Something like Beverly Center but more touristy. The Grove and Americana are primarily single story and Americana connects easily to Brand and Colorado which are active shopping streets (mostly thanks to Americana being there).

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Originally Posted by pesto

Melrose style in DT I can easily see and that makes sense (Hermes not so much). The Fashion District would be ripe for this sort of thing and so would Bway and other areas.

Brigham: Have to disagree. SM Place has fortress entries on 3 sides and a very blah 3-story mall entrance. It also has massive central escaltors and very much a mall vibe (the multiple levels, the mega-sized themed "fun" restaurants, the mall brand stores, the direct access parking). Better than the old place but a very sad failure at being "urban" compared to what it could have been. Something like Beverly Center but more touristy. The Grove and Americana are primarily single story and Americana connects easily to Brand and Colorado which are active shopping streets (mostly thanks to Americana being there).

I have to disagree again. I have seen the people who have entered and exited from 2nd Street and have seen more and more people walking on 4th Street by Bloomingdales and CB2. Definitely wasn't the case when it was a truly insular mall development like Beverly Center. The evidence is that people are WALKING on all sides of the mall now, which wasn't the case before. And I think the way the mall opens up to 3rd St Promenade couldn't be better. Have you seen the cross flow of people between SM Place and 3rd Street Promenade? The mall has become an extension of the promenade.

Here's a video I took of the cross flow between SM Place and Third St Promenade:

• Video Link


And add to the fact that the Expo Line station will dump thousands and thousands of people onto Colorado St. with new widened sidewalks and a freeway cap park, which will increase pedestrian activity all the way to the pier and around SM Place and the Civic Center and it goes along with our future model of Los Angeles, that we'll have transit link our large nodes, which Santa Monica is one of them.

[LAofAnaheim]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

The key term here is "street running." When the first leg of the Gold Line opened, I read that the trains running on the section through Highland Park along Marmion Way could only go 15-20 miles an hour, or "streetcar" speed, because it was considered street running. For light rail to go much faster, it really needs to be in its own dedicated right-of-way.

Nope. Metro has special speed restrictions for Mariom Way. Mariom Way is no different than Washington Boulevard as they are both "street running". Flower street is also "street running". When you depart Washington station off the Blue Line check out the white/yellow sign for train operators where it says you are entering a "street running segment". The Blue Line operates around 30 mph on Washington boulevard. Mariom Way restriction was a compromise with a neighborhood that sued to put it underground.

Metro has plenty of street running segments, but speed restriction on Mariom is an anomoly. But, what I was getting at in my post, is that the perception of the Blue Line speed problems stems from the Long Beach segment, who have refused to give the Blue Line signal priority or synchronization. Unlike LA, which gave the Blue Line signal synchronization a couple of years ago.

[LAofAnaheim]

Agreed with LAB..I would not compare the recently opened SM Place with the Grove or Americana. Please visit if you haven't done so in order to make a fair comparison. SM Place is much much better.

[Illithid Dude]

Image from Curbed LA.

http://la.curbed.com/archives/2011/03/helicopter_padgranted.php

So, a bunch of entitlements have happened concerning this building, including approval of the helicopter, and liquor licenses for 12 restaurants. Also, they got approval to lower the parking from 2700 to 1900 spaces. So, let's list some stuff.
-Two tall and beautiful towers
-Direct Connection to 7th Street Metro Center
-Pedestrian
-Low(ish) parking
-Replacing an ugly low rise
-Actually has money and will happen
-A new Supertall

I suppose that makes this the perfect project, right?

[LAsam]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

I suppose that makes this the perfect project, right?

I would recommend never getting your hopes up to much until physical work starts. Fool me once (Park Fifth), shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[bobcat]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

I suppose that makes this the perfect project, right?

No, it would have to have a public observation deck at the top.

[DJM19]

I hope it does have an observation deck/floor. We need that in LA.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by LAofAnaheim

Nope. Metro has special speed restrictions for Mariom Way. Mariom Way is no different than Washington Boulevard as they are both "street running". Flower street is also "street running". When you depart Washington station off the Blue Line check out the white/yellow sign for train operators where it says you are entering a "street running segment". The Blue Line operates around 30 mph on Washington boulevard. Mariom Way restriction was a compromise with a neighborhood that sued to put it underground.

Metro has plenty of street running segments, but speed restriction on Mariom is an anomoly. But, what I was getting at in my post, is that the perception of the Blue Line speed problems stems from the Long Beach segment, who have refused to give the Blue Line signal priority or synchronization. Unlike LA, which gave the Blue Line signal synchronization a couple of years ago.

I was just going by what I remember reading. However I am aware that the Blue Line does go a bit faster on Washington Blvd. than the Gold Line does on Marmion. But I can see why it does go slower on Marmion; it's a very narrow street, with residences on either side. However, I don't remember Highland Park residents suing to have the line put underground; that sounds more like a South Pasadena thing. In fact, all the commotion I remember about the Gold Line seemed to only come from South Pasadena residents (being that I've been living in South Pasadena for quite a while now, the Gold Line got a lot of coverage in the local community rag). I remember the lawsuit for wanting to make the Gold Line go under the intersection of Pasadena Ave./Monterey Rd., which of course didn't happen, and now people are used to the configuration. I also remember the "NO BELLS AND WHISTLES" signs that many homeowners along the Gold Line route through South Pasadena put up, and they pretty much got what they wanted; sound walls and the bells that stop clanging when the gate arms are fully down. I don't remember Highland Park residents griping about anything.