Kelowna Construction

[Metro-One]

Thank you!

That dream plan posted above is probably one of the worst things you could do for urbanism in Kelowna. the Okanagan only has so much fertile farmland and agriculture is the heart and soul of the region. I would not want to see a Kelowna without its wineries and orchards. Not to mention the secondary and tertiary jobs that are also connected to its agriculture industry.

That land is a no go, there are many brown fields and extremely low density areas already within Kelowna's urban boundaries that are prime for development (preferably in the form of high density).

I am also against the # of houses they are building in the forest fire prone mountain sides as well.

The worst day for me is the day Kelowna looses its fertile agriculture land and its last remaining grass land hills to satisfy the American style appetite of low density urban sprawl.

Kelowna has a lot of potential, but that potential should be focused in the existing urban areas, not elsewhere.

[lionchild]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Thank you!

That dream plan posted above is probably one of the worst things you could do for urbanism in Kelowna. the Okanagan only has so much fertile farmland and agriculture is the heart and soul of the region. I would not want to see a Kelowna without its wineries and orchards. Not to mention the secondary and tertiary jobs that are also connected to its agriculture industry.

That land is a no go, there are many brown fields and extremely low density areas already within Kelowna's urban boundaries that are prime for development (preferably in the form of high density).

I am also against the # of houses they are building in the forest fire prone mountain sides as well.

The worst day for me is the day Kelowna looses its fertile agriculture land and its last remaining grass land hills to satisfy the American style appetite of low density urban sprawl.

Kelowna has a lot of potential, but that potential should be focused in the existing urban areas, not elsewhere.

Up to a degree... if i want to live in the hills or downtown skyscraper, i should have that choice to do so. personally, im unable to afford to live in one of those high rises downtown. still think the market should decide what is best purpose for the land, and not government.
-lionchild

[240glt]

"the market" does what is in the "the market's" best interests, and that's a bad thing for anyone who's interests may not be best served by unregulated and unchecked development.

It'sa huge shame that some would rather see ugly and sprawling development over run fertile argicultural land.... the very land that has made the Okanagan famous in the first place.

[giallo]

By the market, I'm assuming you mean letting developers do what they want with whatever land and seeing whether the consumer will bite. Leaving it up to them without any government regulation is setting yourself up for the lowest common denominator. Developers are only interested in money. They could give two shits about what's good for a city. The whole point in having local government involved is to keep developers in check.

That ARL land is one of the coolest things about my hometown. Kelowna didn't really have any urban plan while I was going up, and DID leave it to the market, and by doing that, pretty much destroyed any chance of it becoming a real city. I've long called it Phoenix Of The North for a reason.

Just now, the city is starting to wake up and realize that there is a city to salvage in one of the most beautiful regions of the country. To build some low-rises (most likely gated retirement homes) over the ALR is not even worth discussing. It's the absolute wrong thing to do.

[bulliver]

Kelowna is already quickly developing into a suburban hellhole in my opinion. Harvey is already 10km of utter mediocrity in the form of strip malls and big box stores. The ALR is pretty much the only thing that encourages any sort of density building in the city. As has been mentioned, the 'market' wants instant gratification, and what is good for the market is not often in accord with what is best long term for the region. Once the orchards and vineyards are paved over with gas stations, strip malls, and single family homes then Kelowna has lost pretty much everything that makes it special and unique.

[wisla_krakow]

Originally Posted by lionchild

Up to a degree... if i want to live in the hills or downtown skyscraper, i should have that choice to do so. personally, im unable to afford to live in one of those high rises downtown. still think the market should decide what is best purpose for the land, and not government.
-lionchild

i do believe a condo downtown will be significantly cheaper than a brand new single-family detached home in the hills.

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by 240glt

"the market" does what is in the "the market's" best interests, and that's a bad thing for anyone who's interests may not be best served by unregulated and unchecked development.

Wow, what a weird thing to say, as though "the market" were some kind of alien life form set on destroying all that is beautiful. "The market" are simply people that decide with their wallets what they want. The same "market" that pioneered every consumer product you and I own, including our homes. Also, who is in favour of "unregulated and unchecked development"?

Originally Posted by 240glt

It's a huge shame that some would rather see ugly and sprawling development over run fertile argicultural land.... the very land that has made the Okanagan famous in the first place.

Yeah, there's certainly no way the market could ever respond by making more orchards if some get developed, you know, even though the private sector has responded proactively to almost every change in history. So ultimately the blame lies with the fact that that people like having 🞵🞵🞵 and having kids. Yeah, we really need to cut that out.

The thing I never understand about Kelowna is, why are high-rises all over the place? In other Canadian cities, this doesn't seem to be a problem.

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

Wow, what a weird thing to say. As though "the market" were some kind of alien life form set on destroying all that is beautiful. "The market" are people that decide with their wallets what they want. The same "market" that pioneered every consumer product you and I own, including our homes. Also, who is in favour of "unregulated and unchecked development"?



Yeah, there's certainly no way the market could ever respond by making more orchards if some get developed, you know, even though the private sector has responded proactively to almost every change in history.

So ultimately the blame lies with the fact that that people like having 🞵🞵🞵 and having kids. Yeah, we really need to cut that out.

Do you have any idea of what you are talking about? Agriculture and food supply is very fickle and requires tried and tested husbandry, not gambles on the use of land. If agriculture land is lost to development, it is very costly to get that land back for agricultural use outside of micro-agriculture. Orchard lands are limited and cannot be terraformed limitlessly outside of the Okanagan.

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by Xelebes

Do you have any idea of what you are talking about?

Yes I do. I only speak on things I know about.

Originally Posted by Xelebes

Agriculture and food supply is very fickle and requires tried and tested husbandry, not gambles on the use of land.

Who's "🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵" on anything? The fact is, there are hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of acres of land all around Kelowna that can be used for the exact same thing they are being used for now under the ALR in Kelowna stretching from the U.S. border to north of Kamloops, which means that Kelowna can grow to millions of people before these ALR lands are threatened. How do I know that? Simple. I've toured BC enough to know that the Okanagan covers a huge area north of the US border. There is nothing unique about the Kelowna area (either in terms of flora, fauna or geography) that separate it from the rest of the interior which means you can grow cherries, grapes, and peaches just as easily in Osoyoos (or Summerland or Penticton) as you can in Kelowna. Those that speak out defending the ALR are those that no doubt, own farmland in the ALR, thus their livelihood depend on it's protection. That doesn't sound like much of a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 to me.

Originally Posted by Xelebes

Orchard lands are limited and cannot be terraformed limitlessly outside of the Okanagan.

True, but like I said you probably have no idea how big the Okanagan is and those that want to protect the ALR around Kelowna (like farmers that depend on their land) certainly don't want you to know that fruits and veggies can be grown just as easily in other parts of BC.

[bulliver]

which means you can grow cherries, grapes, and peaches just as easily in Osoyoos (or Summerland or Penticton)

Right...they already do that. Millions of acres? Not sure where you think that is. If you drive up from Osoyoos you will soon realize that all the prime land at valley bottom is either developed, IR, or already being used for agriculture. The only land left is poor, rocky soil up on the mountainsides with steep topography that would make agriculture costly and difficult. Even the modest increase in elevation can mean the difference between viable crops and early spring/late fall frost damage.

Kelowna is more than able to support a significantly increased population without paving over any ALR land if the current regressive mayor and council would pull their heads out of their asses.

[Metro-One]

Not to mention that the low elevation grasslands in the Okanagan are a very important wildlife corridor, connecting the limited Thompson, Fraser and Nicola grasslands in the north to the expansive grasslands to the south in Washington and Oregon. I don't feel like explaining to Phil the vulnerability of species on the fringe of their ranges, such as rattlesnakes, gopher snakes, rubber boa, Northern Alligator lizard, etc... because chances are he wont listen, but this makes it important for us to preserve the little grasslands we have left in the Okanagan Valley bottom as park land so this corridor does not become completely cut off (and therefore cutting off genetic diversity for these fringe species north of the Okanagan, which usually leads to their exoneration).

Also, compared to many other agriculture regions in the world the Okanagan is very small (go on google earth and see how tiny it is compared to the Napa Valley for example), is very hilly and rocky and therefore is very limited in land suitable to agriculture, not to mention how quickly the climate becomes unsuitable for agriculture once one ascends into the hills (have you ever driven the Connector? Have you not noticed how quickly the vegetation shifts from warm / hot grassland and ponderosa pine forests into cool montane and sub alpine forests, which are completely unsuitable for any agriculture beyond raising cattle?)

I could go on, but I know Phil wont listen.

[Phil McAvity]

Thanks for explaining that guys.

Bulliver, what is "IR"?

[bulliver]

IR: Indian Reserve

[giallo]

It amazing the amount of wildlife that exists in the Okanagan that I haven't seen.
I grew up playing in the forests in Kelowna (was raised up in Crawford Estates with a wild, untamed forest as a backyard), but I never saw a cougar (rare, I know), a rubber Boa or a Northern Alligator Lizard. A lot of birds, frogs, squirrels, the odd bear, deer and coyotes were the staple. I remember the first time I found a praying mantis and a scorpion. It blew my mind.

These days, there are even more mammal species roaming in the hills and suburbs. The forest fires have open up huge pathways for elk and moose. My dad saw a moose while walking. This would have been unheard of 10 years ago. Wolves (obviously following the elk and moose) have also been seen in the area, as well as big horned sheep.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

Wow, what a weird thing to say, as though "the market" were some kind of alien life form set on destroying all that is beautiful. "The market" are simply people that decide with their wallets what they want. The same "market" that pioneered every consumer product you and I own, including our homes. Also, who is in favour of "unregulated and unchecked development"?



Yeah, there's certainly no way the market could ever respond by making more orchards if some get developed, you know, even though the private sector has responded proactively to almost every change in history. So ultimately the blame lies with the fact that that people like having 🞵🞵🞵 and having kids. Yeah, we really need to cut that out.

The thing I never understand about Kelowna is, why are high-rises all over the place? In other Canadian cities, this doesn't seem to be a problem.

I am glad that you understand now. I assume that you have no sentimental ties to the area whatsoever, otherwise my post would not have been so difficult for you to comprehend.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

Thanks for explaining that guys.

Bulliver, what is "IR"?

If this is sincere then I take back my "he wont listen" comments.

Last year I spent 2 semesters writing a paper on the climatic, geographical and biological aspects of the Okanagan Valley.

The forest fires in Kelowna were actually the best thing that has happened there in regards to the environment in a long time, hence you will be seeing more wildlife in the region now.

Since forest fire suppression has begun BC has actually lost 30% of its grasslands due to forest creep down into the valleys (regular fires use to kill the sapling trees) and the forests themselves have become far more crowded with saplings and old dying trees (trees that use to be "cleaned up" by low intensity surface fires). This is one of the main reasons why the pine beetle has become such a huge problem.

In regards to the rubber boa it is very rarely seen because it is nocturnal and generally lives in trees.

Northern Alligator lizards are hot and cold throughout their range, they will be abundant in pocket areas and seldom seen elsewhere.

[wisla_krakow]

Originally Posted by giallo

I grew up playing in the forests in Kelowna (was raised up in Crawford Estates with a wild, untamed forest as a backyard), but I never saw a cougar (rare, I know)...

have you ever been to Roses on a friday night?

but in all seriousness, im more afraid of running into a cougar whenever i head up into the wild forest than anything, yet i too am surprised that i've never seen one.

[bulliver]

Another here who has hiked/biked/camped in the region for years and never spotted a cougar.

[240glt]

A friend of mine worked for MacMillan Bloedell years back as an RPF, he was out one day laying out a cut block and was about 5 kms' from his truck when he spotted a couger about 100 yards away from him, and apparently stalking him. All he had was his hard hat and a can of spray paint to defend himself with... he made his way all the way back to his truck with the large cat following him a few dozen yards away. He said that the hardest thing he ever had to do was resist the urge to run once he was within eyeshot of his truck

[Jack Doe]

Originally Posted by bulliver

Another here who has hiked/biked/camped in the region for years and never spotted a cougar.

You may have never seen a cougar, but I'll bet a cougar has seen you. Maybe you just don't look very tasty.

I was living on the east side of Skaha Lake last year and I definitely heard a cougar. Tearing a deer a new one. Not a pleasant sound.