CFL in the Maritimes

[fenwick16]

This whole debate and rivalry between Moncton and Halifax is really starting to heat up. It is good to see people becoming so emotionally involved in the discussion - I will have to read this thread more often - it is better than a soap opera For now the two cities will have to fight it out in the QMJHL.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

For now the two cities will have to fight it out in the QMJHL.

We'd both lose bigtime to Saint John on that one

Although, it should be noted that the Wildcats have been to the Memorial Cup twice in the last five years.

[someone123]

At the end of the day it's not actually that dramatic because if Halifax builds a real stadium it's over. That's where the CFL would like to locate and the lack of a stadium is the stumbling block. It's possible that Moncton would work if it had an adequate stadium but it doesn't, nor does it have much capacity to pay for one at the moment.

The other stuff about which city wants it more or deserves it or has done more work or whatever else is, at the end of the day, irrelevant.

The Moncton "strategic location" argument is pretty vague. To make it convincing you'd have to actually look at travel patterns for existing CFL teams. My guess is that local population is dramatically more important than population even 1-2 hours away.

[nwalbert]

I have to agree with the majority, if Halifax builds a stadium, there is no argument or discussion where an East coast team would be based. The CFL clearly wants Halifax.

If Moncton is only holding the CFL games to try and lure a franchise, they are wasting their money. If they are holding them for the enjoyment of the community then enjoy that and continue to support the CFL after Halifax gets a team.

The idea that the region is going to support a team in Moncton doesn't fly. Halifax folks are not going to commute to Moncton to watch a game and neither are people in SJ or Fredericton. SJ now has a Q team and a professional basketball team. Any football fans are NFL fans and most go to Foxborough once a year. A CFL team in Moncton would garner very little interest here, and I coach minor sports.

It is a silly argument, one city is three or four times larger than the other and already has two teams who play the Canadian football style.

[ErickMontreal]

First of all, let me state that I am a staunch supporter of the CFL and the Canadian players being part of the "brand" of our game. At the end of the day, I would rather support a team based in Moncton than throwing my money into NFL. Period! Everything's a matter of perception, I guess.

I went to Percival Stadium in Montréal several times and whatever people might think, this is amazing football!

They ought to expand in Quebec and in Moncton/Halifax, that would obviously help to add some more credibility to this league.

Go Als Go!

[MonctonRad]

As always, I respect your opinion someone. It tends to be less biased than most other that you see here

Originally Posted by someone123

At the end of the day it's not actually that dramatic because if Halifax builds a real stadium it's over. That's where the CFL would like to locate and the lack of a stadium is the stumbling block. It's possible that Moncton would work if it had an adequate stadium but it doesn't, nor does it have much capacity to pay for one at the moment.

There is no question that if Halifax gets it's act together and builds an all weather 25-30,000 seat stadium that this could be a game changer. The question remains however if this will happen and not necessarily when.

The present Moncton Stadium served it's purpose well for the IAAF Championship but unquestionably needs to be upgraded and expanded to meet minimum CFL standards. Both Moncton and Halifax are chasing the Women's World Cup in 2015 for the same reason - to get federal funding to build (or upgrade) their facilities. We'll see who wins....

Originally Posted by someone123

The other stuff about which city wants it more or deserves it or has done more work or whatever else is, at the end of the day, irrelevant.

I don't want to get into any arguements over which city deserves or does not deserve a team but there is no question that the city of Moncton has invested a lot of time on this file over the last several years. The city of Halifax not so much (except for the last several months), and even then the city's efforts seem to have been more concentrated on making a case for building the stadium rather than talking to the CFL. Moncton in the meantime has had much more meaningful facetime with the CFL brass.

Originally Posted by someone123

The Moncton "strategic location" argument is pretty vague. To make it convincing you'd have to actually look at travel patterns for existing CFL teams. My guess is that local population is dramatically more important than population even 1-2 hours away.

There is a population base of about 290,000 within one hour of Moncton. This is 10% greater than in the same radius from Regina. A CFL team could work here, just like a team would work in Halifax. It's too bad that both cities couldn't get a team although I don't imagine the CFL brass would allow this to happen.

A question - Are there any private investors with deep pockets in Halifax who have actually expressed interest in the stadium project or in backing a CFL franchise? I'm just wondering because I know that Cohon has talked to possible investors here in Moncton (and yes, I know at least a half dozen individuals in this city who are worth in excess of nine figures).

You will need more than just a stadium to attract a CFL team. You will need private investors, enthusiastic fans, supportive local government and a good business case.

In other words, it ain't over yet!

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I don't think you should add in the Cape Bretoners in your equation......They don't really consider themselves Nova Scotians anyway.

Just ask General John Cabot Trail!

LOL....true

[MonctonRad]

Now it's official: Ticats vs. Stamps
Published Friday February 18th, 2011

CFL's 2011 schedule to be announced today, including Touchdown Atlantic II on Sept. 25
BY BRENT MAZEROLLE
TIMES & TRANSCRIPT STAFF

The Canadian Football League will only be announcing its 2011 schedule at 1 p.m. today, but the general manager of the City of Moncton's Economic Development, Tourism and Culture department said last night he could confirm the Hamilton Tiger-Cats will host the Calgary Stampeders at this year's Scotiabank Touchdown Atlantic II.

"It was just speculation before, but now it's official," Fowler said.

CFL president Mark Cohon was on a plane to Los Angeles last night and couldn't be reached, but Fowler said Cohon had wanted to give Atlantic Canadians advance notice of who was coming.

He also confirmed the game will take place Sunday, Sept. 25, with a 2 p.m. start, a change from last September's 1 p.m. kickoff.

The tickets are expected to go on sale sometime in March, and a media conference will be held to announce more details sometime in the days ahead of the eventual sale date.

Last year's game, on Sept. 26, sold out in a matter of hours. The game was a significant success for the city and drew a capacity 25,000 people to the City of Moncton's new stadium on the Université de Moncton campus.

Moncton Mayor George LeBlanc has said all along the city wanted to make its hosting of the CFL in Atlantic Canada more than just a one-time event, and the CFL has also expressed interest in growing its brand here in the east. Returning another east-west pairing to Moncton this year represents another step in making the CFL truly a coast-to-coast league.

Whatever the future holds, Touchdown Atlantic II may not be the only visit the Ticats make to Moncton in the next few years.

The city and its stadium have been identified as an alternate location for Ticats games if the reconstruction of Hamilton's Ivor Wynne Stadium keeps the team off its true home turf.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personal note - If the Ti-Cats play the whole 2012 season on the road while Ivor Wynne is renovated, I predict that they will call Moncton home for 1/3 of the season, playing a total of three consecutive home games at the Moncton Stadium.

This would be the ultimate test of Moncton as a potential CFL market. If we could sustain the excitement for several consecutive games, it would be difficult for the CFL to ignore.

[-Harlington-]

The ticats is my team, my dad is trying to get tickets and a way up
so i will most likely be there if i can

[q12]

Personal note - If the Ti-Cats play the whole 2012 season on the road while Ivor Wynne is renovated, I predict that they will call Moncton home for 1/3 of the season, playing a total of three consecutive home games at the Moncton Stadium.

This would be the ultimate test of Moncton as a potential CFL market. If we could sustain the excitement for several consecutive games, it would be difficult for the CFL to ignore.

MonctanRad while your enthusiasm is great, I think you have been sucked into the hype that CFL is trying to generate by this. I think it’s been said already on these forums what the CFL is really up to. It went to Halifax first to try to generate interest with no luck than saw the opportunity to use Moncton as a way to get Halifax interested.

You are setting yourself up for disappointment if you think a CFL franchise is coming to Moncton anytime soon. If you don't see the plan Mark Cohen has been watching play out you are more naive than I thought along with the rest of Moncton and it’s over hyped self-promotion.

Moncton will have no one to blame but themselves and maybe the media for thinking that the CFL was really looking at Moncton as a serious potential expansion city. If you look back at the things Mark Cohen has said in the past about expansion to Atlantic Canada he has been extremely careful not to say much about Moncton specifically. I think Moncton and its media like to hear what they want to hear and twist things around to over hype it.

Please don't think though I'm saying that the CFL games Moncton will be hosting is not something to be proud of, I'm just trying to keep it real.

P.S.
And since Moncton doesn't have a real stadium yet anyways they are not really any further ahead. Don forget St. John's, Newfoundland the 2nd largest city in Atlantic Canada should not be forgotten. (Hey they are about to open Atlantic Canada's 2nd Best Buy and before Moncton!)

[-Harlington-]

If Halifax doesnt do something substantial before the 2012 season the franchise will go to moncton

the stadium talks are going fairly well but the CFL needs to know we are going to have one and are willing to sustain a team.
until recently halifax has done nothing, and as much as it pains me to say this moncton deserves it more as of now, now being the key word.

but hopefully this stadium will be built in halifax because it really is what mark cohon wants but he wont wait forever.

and im not defending moncton by the way so dont get to excited monctonians, lol
i still think halifax has maybe a 65-70 % chance at this but we shouldn't have our hopes at 100

[MonctonRad]

@Q12

Moncton is nothing if not ambitious. Haligonians may find this tendency of ours to be both bothersome and a nuisance, but there is no question that success begets even more success, and that the more that Moncton accomplishes, the more it sets us up for future growth and expansion. Don't forget that the Moncton CMA has the sixth highest growth rate in the country, and our positive can-do attitude certainly has had a lot to do with this...

After the closure of the CN shops, the Eaton's catalogue warehouse and CFB Moncton in the late 1980's and the early 1990's, our city could have rolled over and sunk into a severe mental depression (it very nearly did), but instead the civic leaders (aided by the McKenna government) identified the strengths of the community (location, bilingualism & telecommunications infrastructure) and redoubled their efforts to attract new businesses to the city and it worked. The population of the city has grown by nearly 40,000 in the last 25 years and our growth rate is accelerating. We are now the largest CMA in NB and have become a natural growth centre for the Maritime region. So, there is nothing wrong with Moncton being "self promoting" , it obviously works........

I am not naive. I am fully aware that the CFL may be using Moncton in order to embarrass Halifax into action over the regional football franchise. If this is what it takes to get Halifax out of it's torpor, then I really find it to be much more sad than anything else - but this is what a sense of entitlement can do for a community. Halifax cannot conceive of a regional CFL franchise being anywhere else but in Halifax. Because of this sense of entitlement, Halifax has not worked to earn the privilege of having a CFL franchise. The Halifax attitude is "why bother putting in the effort, it's going to come to us eventually anyway, we'll just sit back and let it happen".

Don't think that this Halifax attitude has gone unnoticed in the CFL boardrooms. If Halifax does not proceed on this issue with the necessary civic enthusiasm, fan support and corporate partnerships, then the competition remains wide open. I am under no illusions however that Halifax may not ultimately win this struggle, it's too much of a formidable adversary to think otherwise. But that doesn't mean that in the meantime I won't continue fighting the good fight. One never knows what may happen. Who would have predicted 25 years ago the tremendous strides that Moncton has made. It ain't over until it's over.

BTW, Best Buy would have had a store in Moncton by now if the development that it was going to be built in (the Mapleton Power Centre) hadn't been euchred by the recession and by disruptions caused by ongoing adjacent road construction on Mapleton Road. Best Buy will be here soon enough.

[drpgq]

Does anyone remember the procedure for last year with regards to Argos season ticket holders getting access to the Moncton game? I'm a Ticat season ticket and mulling going to the game. There was an email from the Cats saying that Ticat season ticket holders could buy before the general public, but it was pretty vague.

[MonctonRad]

Become a subscriber to "CFL Insider", this will give you access to the ticket pre-sale. If the Ti-Cat's have anything else to offer, you might want to check their website instead.

Cheers

[someone123]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I am not naive. I am fully aware that the CFL may be using Moncton in order to embarrass Halifax into action over the regional football franchise. If this is what it takes to get Halifax out of it's torpor, then I really find it to be much more sad than anything else - but this is what a sense of entitlement can do for a community. Halifax cannot conceive of a regional CFL franchise being anywhere else but in Halifax. Because of this sense of entitlement, Halifax has not worked to earn the privilege of having a CFL franchise. The Halifax attitude is "why bother putting in the effort, it's going to come to us eventually anyway, we'll just sit back and let it happen".

What is your basis for saying this? I've never once seen somebody point out that Halifax "deserves" a stadium and the CFL (and so what if they did? we're talking about a city with many people who have varying viewpoints). Framing it that way doesn't even make sense. If Halifax gets a stadium it will because taxpayers there pay for one. The CFL meanwhile is a private business, not some kind of special privilege, and they will operate if they can make money. Halifax gets the lion's share of those sorts of operations in the Maritimes because it has by far the largest population and economy. That is a reality that is not going to change any time soon and has nothing to do with entitlement.

Just looking at the facts, there was the CWG bid that was cancelled in 2007 so the stadium issue was ignored by politicians for a while. Now it's being discussed again and something will likely be built at some point during the next few years. It probably has very little to do with Moncton.

[BlackYear]

An interesting article by Kelly McParland in the National Post today.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/02/22/kelly-mcparland-halifax-wants-a-stadium-too/

Kelly McParland: Halifax wants a stadium too. February 22, 2011 – 9:53 am

The list if Canadian cities that need stadiums and/or hockey arenas is growing.

Regina needs a domed football stadium because it has a CFL football team and the fans would be much more comfortable if they weren’t half-frozen much of the time, and because a new stadium would allow the existing facility to be redeveloped into a housing and entertainment district. Hamilton needs a new stadium because it has a CFL football team and ancient Ivor Wynne Stadium is falling apart. Quebec needs a new arena because … well, because it’s Quebec and even though it doesn’t have an NHL team to play in the arena, anyone who questions the project is anti-Quebec and anti-French and doesn’t understand the crucial importance of Quebec national ambitions.

Now Halifax needs one too. Actually, Halifax has needed a stadium for some time, but was surprisingly slow to realize that the federal financing trough might be open for business. Defence Minister Peter MacKay, a good, loyal Nova Scotia boy, took care of that when he declared on the weekend that he was fully on board.

“We have to be able to justify this to taxpayers,” he said Monday after an announcement at the Halifax Stanfield International Airport. “It has to be done in a way that doesn’t jeopardize other projects.

“It all has to be done in balance, but is it something that I personally am committed to? Yes it is.”

Does Halifax have a professional football team to play there? Er, no. Is there a prospect of it acquiring one? Uh, not really. Is the need for a stadium any different today than it was, say, five years ago? Well, there’s the possibility of being selected as a host city for the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup. So that would ensure it was busy for, like, a few weeks, anyway. Other than that there’s always unspecified concerts and trade shows, just like every other city.

But nevermind. Halifax is planning to spend $100,000 on a “feasibility study,” which, I’m willing to bet, will conclude that a stadium is fully feasible is someone comes along to pick up the costs. Someone, like … a government outside of Nova Scotia. And why not? None of the other needy cities has the money for its project and each has its hand out for taxpayer funds. Ontario’s government has come through for Hamilton. The provincial and municipal governments, both of which are broke, nonetheless claim they can find $400 million for Quebec (even if the province can’t even pay its own lawyers). Nova Scotia, unfortunately, can’t pretend to have that kind of money, so Halifax is stuck looking for a handout from Ottawa. Because — other than equalization funding, regional development support and regular transfer payments from Ottawa — the Atlantic provinces, as we all know, don’t get their fair share from Confederation.

Well, good for Halifax. It’s case to have the rest of the country build it a sports facility is no worse than any other city’s. And it helps bring home the fact that if Ottawa thinks it can find money for one city (say, in Quebec), and not for a dozen others, it’s dreaming in both official languages, and several local dialects as well.

[Gnarly]

"There is a population base of about 290,000 within one hour of Moncton".

In your wildest dreams, there is not 290,000 people within one hour of Moncton.
what did u include to arrive at this figure.

There will never be a CFL team in Moncton.....until the population is triple what it is now, and even then Halifax would be first choice.

[MonctonRad]

I guess I'll have to trot out this table yet again.....



Again, the Moncton CMA is now the largest in NB. The growth rate is the sixth highest in the country. The population in the immediate area has grown by about 40,000 in the last 25 years. The 2010 Stats Can estimated CMA population is in excess of 137,000.

Don't forget that a one hour radius includes all of Cumberland County in NS, as well as all of Westmoreland, Albert and Kent Counties in NB and the majority of Kings County.

The most populous area in NB is the southeast, so yes, I have no difficulty believing these population figures.

There are many small towns and villages in the one hour catchment including (besides Moncton, Dieppe and Riverview) Memramcook, Sackville, Amherst, Springhill, Shediac, Cap Pele, Cocagne, Bouctouche, Rexton, Richibuctou, Hillsborough, Salisbury, Petitcodiac and Sussex. This gives Moncton a reasonably populous rural fringe. Regina on the other hand is surrounded by low population density farmland.

The population figures are correct, no matter how much you wish to disbelieve them.

[mylesmalley]

Originally Posted by Gnarly

"There is a population base of about 290,000 within one hour of Moncton".

In your wildest dreams, there is not 290,000 people within one hour of Moncton.
what did u include to arrive at this figure.

There will never be a CFL team in Moncton.....until the population is triple what it is now, and even then Halifax would be first choice.

You guys all really need to tone it down a bit

But that figure is not that far off the mark.
An hours drive from Moncton includes a lot more than you might think.
All of Westmoreland Co (NB) 132,000
All of Albert Co (NB) 33,000
Southern Half of Kent Co (NB) ~ 20,000 (at least), maybe even into parts of Northumberland Co (NB) ~ 5,000
Eastern half of Kings Co (NB) ~ 20,000
Northern parts of Cumberland Co (NS) ~20,000
A small part of Prince Co (PEI) ~ 5,000

That totals up to around 230,000. A bit shy of 290,000 but I'm sure i'm missing a few areas.

[mylesmalley]

Ah, well. Way to blow my post out of the water, MonctonRad