Atlanta Project Thread IV

[Pessimistic Observer]

heres a quote from the study it mentions upto 20% of a full house at the georgia dome can be attributed to marta

A proposed stadium on the existing Marshalling Yard/Yellow Lot is accessible by three MARTA stations
within a 20-minute walk zone. These station locations relative to the site will result in longer walk
times from MARTA to the stadium site than experienced at the Georgia Dome. Once two to four
minute walks from MARTA to the Georgia Dome (See Figure 7-3 in Existing Conditions Report), the Vine
City Station and Dome-GWCC-Philips Arena-CNN Station on the MARTA Blue and Green Lines would
become approximately 13.5-minutes and 19-minute walks respectively. The Civic Center Station would
provide access from the MARTA Red and Gold Lines and is approximately a 17-minute walk. If MARTA
ridership decreases, an incentive program to ride transit could be necessary to encourage transit usage
and relieve congestion on local roads and interstates. A shuttle system is not recommended from
MARTA to the site; although walk times are significantly higher than to the Georgia Dome, shuttles
would likely be stuck in vehicular traffic on Ivan Allen Boulevard or Northside Drive and would not
result in a significant travel time savings.

i wonder what the incentive program would look like.

[ATLonthebrain]

In the detailed report which discusses plans for the new stadium, there are several walking routes mapped out from the future stadium site to the closest MARTA Stations. Vine City is just under 2,900ft and then there's Civic Center at just under 3,600ft. In fact, of all the routes shown, none of them are a mile away. P'tree Center is the furthest at 4,575ft.

As to the funding, the GWCC Authority states it hopes to fund about half of the cost through bonds in 2013/2014 and that the Falcons would pick up the balance. Guess we'll know a lot more in the next few months.

The Dome is very popular for large events, especially due to its location adjacent to the GWCC. That is a major benefit, and an enclosed facility like that is attractive for some of the big conventions that come to town as well as various sporting/entertainment events that need something larger than Philips Arena.

[Pessimistic Observer]

Originally Posted by ATLonthebrain

In the detailed report which discusses plans for the new stadium, there are several walking routes mapped out from the future stadium site to the closest MARTA Stations. Vine City is just under 2,900ft and then there's Civic Center at just under 3,600ft. In fact, of all the routes shown, none of them are a mile away. P'tree Center is the furthest at 4,575ft.

As to the funding, the GWCC Authority states it hopes to fund about half of the cost through bonds in 2013/2014 and that the Falcons would pick up the balance. Guess we'll know a lot more in the next few months.

The Dome is very popular for large events, especially due to its location adjacent to the GWCC. That is a major benefit, and an enclosed facility like that is attractive for some of the big conventions that come to town as well as various sporting/entertainment events that need something larger than Philips Arena.

i could probably cover the vine city distance in 8 minutes instead of 13.5 like the study says ofcourse i walk fast. Most people wouldnt bother unless it was made blatantly obvious where to go also there needs to be other stuff along that route otherwise people wont feel comfortarble taking it. So alot of stuff i hope they consider before they start getting funding it would really suck if it ended up being like turner field even though its only half a mile from marta

[mike1986]

Originally Posted by Pessimistic Observer

i could probably cover the vine city distance in 8 minutes instead of 13.5 like the study says ofcourse i walk fast. Most people wouldnt bother unless it was made blatantly obvious where to go also there needs to be other stuff along that route otherwise people wont feel comfortarble taking it. So alot of stuff i hope they consider before they start getting funding it would really suck if it ended up being like turner field even though its only half a mile from marta

It wouldn't be an unpleasant walk if they upgraded the streetscape between Vine City and the new stadium. Same for Turner Field... from Garnett they could upgrade the streetscape along Piedmont/Capitol Ave to Turner Field. More trees, nice pavers/new concrete, and decorative lighting would go a long way.

[shivtim]

Do any of you actually believe suburbanites are going to get off at the Vine City station and walk more than half a mile to the stadium, then walk back to Vine City at night?
The only reason anyone takes MARTA to games is because the stations are literally *at* the current stadiums.

[SteveD]

Originally Posted by shivtim

Do any of you actually believe suburbanites are going to get off at the Vine City station and walk more than half a mile to the stadium, then walk back to Vine City at night?
The only reason anyone takes MARTA to games is because the stations are literally *at* the current stadiums.

Alas, this is true. I live in the 'hood, and I wouldn't do it.

[ATLaffinity]

Ha. Even in-town Atlantans won't walk 100 feet. What a ridiculous plan.

These tax breaks for these stadiums never make up for the lost revenue.

[BlindFatSnake]

In all fairness to Arthur Blank and the GWCCA, the plans are preliminary and we only know the proposed site. Fans will walk to the stadium and the walk won't seem so long because there is "safety in numbers".

With that being said, we need to remember that all but a few games will be played at 1PM (during the day). I agree, night games will be problematic with fan who choose to trek over to Vine City station via Northside drive.

I'm sure there will be shuttle buses (just like at the Braves games), where fans are transported to the Civic Center and Vine City MARTA stations. There may even be a temporary "HOV-type" lane exclusively for MARTA buses.

Also, the Dome/GWCC MARTA station could still be used for fans who are willing to walk through the CNN Center and along Marietta street to Ivan Allen Blvd.

And, don't forget, tailgating along all major streets will become part of the "fan experience".

I'm willing to wait on the finished plans before I bash this new "open air" stadium" as a failure.

[shivtim]

^The proposal specifically says shuttle buses are not recommended. It also noted that about 0% of current MARTA traffic to the dome comes from Five Points Station - because it is a 17 minute walk. People would rather wait to transfer than walk.

Even if they move the location to somewhere closer to MARTA, I don't think I would support this stadium. We already have a great NFL stadium that is less than 20 years old and was recently renovated. We don't need a new one. Build an MLS stadium instead.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by shivtim

^The proposal specifically says shuttle buses are not recommended. It also noted that about 0% of current MARTA traffic to the dome comes from Five Points Station - because it is a 17 minute walk. People would rather wait to transfer than walk.

Even if they move the location to somewhere closer to MARTA, I don't think I would support this stadium. We already have a great NFL stadium that is less than 20 years old and was recently renovated. We don't need a new one. Build and MLS stadium instead.

I'm very sure that it can't be 0%, because I (and my group) always get off at Five Points and walk up Marietta Street to the Dome or Phillips. I really enjoy being downtown and like to soak in as much as possible when I have the chance. So while it may be rare, it isn't like nobody does it.

[BlindFatSnake]

Originally Posted by shivtim

^The proposal specifically says shuttle buses are not recommended. It also noted that about 0% of current MARTA traffic to the dome comes from Five Points Station - because it is a 17 minute walk. People would rather wait to transfer than walk.

Even if they move the location to somewhere closer to MARTA, I don't think I would support this stadium. We already have a great NFL stadium that is less than 20 years old and was recently renovated. We don't need a new one. Build and MLS stadium instead.

For the record, I never mentioned the Five Points MARTA station. It takes about 10 minutes or less to walk from Five Points via Forsyth street and MLK to reach the Dome. And even less if you walk through the Gulch.

Would you be supporting the stadium or the event being hosted at the stadium? I'm just asking...

In other news, why do we need a new MLS stadium?

[shivtim]

We don't have an MLS stadium at all, so a stadium would be brand new, as opposed to replacing an "old" one. Atlanta has a demographic market that is ripe for soccer, and the stadiums are far smaller and cheaper than NFL stadiums.

I'm not sure I understand your question about supporting the stadium vs. supporting the event held at the stadium. I do support the Falcons, and I think they're doing just fine with the GA Dome. In general I am very much a proponent of urban, transit-accessible stadiums. That's why I love the GA Dome, and I think a new outdoor stadium farther from MARTA rail would be a step down and a waste of money.

[BlindFatSnake]

Falcons' push for open-air stadium gets lift - AJC headline

Greg Beadles, chief financial officer for the Falcons, said an open-air stadium could open the door to a much talked about MLS soccer team in Atlanta, one of the city’s missing sports franchises.

This statement was in the original AJC news article... Maybe a Major League Soccer team will play when the Falcons are not playing.

Is this stadium still "a step down and a waste of money???

[shivtim]

That would be a huge plus if the stadium was also used for an MLS team. But why not just build an MLS stadium for 10% of the cost? You could probably fit it in right next to the dome across from Vine City.

Anyway, this is all conjecture at this point, so lets wait and see how things develop, and see how much money they're going to ask the taxpayers for.

[Chris Creech]

Has anyone actually been the the other two new soccer stadiums, the WPS stadium up at Kennesaw State or the Silverbacks stadium? I see on their website that the Silverbacks are rebuilding the stadium with more seating.

[atlanta_architect1]

This is an interesting proposal- http://cloudarchitecturedesign.com/?p=1064- it proposes an extension of the new Downtown streetcar to the Westside. Their proposal actually goes right past the new proposed site. This is the missing link! This design firm also has already proposed an awesome design for the stadium- much cooler than the one in the study. What if they just built this one at the new site, and extended the streetcar?

[Fiorenza]

I'm not aware of any dual-use (soccer and US football) stadiums being used at present. I think the main issue is the differing dimensions of the pitch required for soccer vs US football. I'd be curious if anyone has seen a dual-use stadium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer-specific_stadium

[Chris Creech]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

I'm not aware of any dual-use (soccer and US football) stadiums being used at present. I think the main issue is the differing dimensions of the pitch required for soccer vs US football. I'd be curious if anyone has seen a dual-use stadium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer-specific_stadium

I did find one, apparently Qwest Stadium in Seattle was specifically designed from the outset to be dual purpose and that was a while back. I found this story on the process that went into that. It seems the trick is to meet the soccer requirements which seem more demanding.

It hosts both the Seattle Seahawks (NFL) and the Seattle Sounders (MLS)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2004102027_soccer01.html

Here's Qwest Field's Wiki page where they talk a lot about it being dual purpose. They show the field set up both ways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qwest_Field

[Fiorenza]

Interesting. I wonder what the soccer players and fans think about it.

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by atlanta_architect1

This is an interesting proposal- http://cloudarchitecturedesign.com/?p=1064- it proposes an extension of the new Downtown streetcar to the Westside. Their proposal actually goes right past the new proposed site. This is the missing link! This design firm also has already proposed an awesome design for the stadium- much cooler than the one in the study. What if they just built this one at the new site, and extended the streetcar?

As BeltLine explores transit feasibility they seem to be coming to conclusions that might support the aforementioned transit concept. Most of us with any sense of how transit works knows that the corridor today does not justify transit on its entirety, and will not for decades. As such, ABI is exploring building the "spokes" first (in area's where need exists today), and holding off on the "wheel" until funding is available.

http://www.beltline.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=N0hTNejQvLw%3d&tabid=1826&mid=3460

Slide 36 shows the potential Marietta Street/Peachtree Streetcar link