Halifax Stadium Discussion

[ATL Stadium]

Just to be perfectly clear......

I SUPPORT A STADIUM IN HRM ANY LOCATION!

I just dont see a Stadium on the peninsula as being the "best" choice.....
Although Fenwick caught me thinking about the Wanders Grounds....but for the same ease of use issue....I would place it low on any list.

Long term the Stadium has to be able to attract the ticket buying public.
Get to it /get out of it
Be safe and comfortable
Convenience of a roof
Concessions / Washrooms
open end zones for expansion

[q12]

Originally Posted by beyeas

I couldn't resist! They opened the door to it!
Submitted by beyeas on Tue, 2011-02-22 12:59.
Even the Heritage Trust folks support this!
For all those people who are claiming that this is just another tax grab and there is no business case etc, I just wanted to note that even the Heritage Trust folks are coming out in support of a new stadium.

Allan Robertson of Save The View is on the record as saying that among the reasons why he supports is "The third reason is a new stadium wouldn't lose money,...".
Apparently the Save The View campaign has sent a letter asking the government to fund this project.

Clearly everyone from hardcore sports lovers to Save The View heritage supporters are in favour of this! Build it!

This is quite hilarious. Maybe we can get them to put the stadium in the middle of citadel hill. Then I wonder what they would say?

[someone123]

The peninsula is central and densely populated. Mainland Halifax is a large area and a longer trip from Dartmouth. And how do people get to Dartmouth from Mainland Halifax? They drive across the Peninsula and the bridges.

As for the other talk and Halifax getting millions, you can't form a useful opinion about this without knowing details. The Halifax stadium plan is $30-60M. The feds might pay for one third. The Regina and Quebec City plans are in the hundreds of millions of dollars range.

Similarly the stadium isn't just for the CFL. SMU already has football and FIFA is part of the reason why the stadium issue has again come to the fore. Vaguely saying that Halifax is looking for a handout to build an elaborate stadium just to have a shot at the CFL is a gross distortion, but par for the course for the National Post and those who are caught up in petty regionalism.

[PoscStudent]

The article wasn't just bashing Halifax's proposal. She brings up a good point about building a stadium when you have no tenant, which is what is being done in Quebec and possibly Halifax.

There is no guarantee that the NHL will move to Quebec or that they can get the Olympics just like there's no guarantee that Halifax can get a CFL team or Fifa.

St. John's built Mile One Centre to accomodate the St. John's Maple Leafs and they left the stadium after a few years. St. John's has been unable to get a full time tenant even though the Maple Leafs operated successfully for 15 years. The city has wasted millions on the stadium over the years.

Personally I wouldn't want any major sports facility like this built unless there was a team ready to move into it.

[-Harlington-]

last time we had a team ready to move in the whole thing got screwed up
at least now we will have the stadium, the if you build it they will come saying applies here. Maybe were actually learning from our mistakes with the CFL .

on a side note, Im really impressed with the amount of positive comments on the herald story about Mackay and the stadium .

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

St. John's built Mile One Centre to accomodate the St. John's Maple Leafs and they left the stadium after a few years. St. John's has been unable to get a full time tenant even though the Maple Leafs operated successfully for 15 years. The city has wasted millions on the stadium over the years.

I believe St. John's is getting a QMJHL team next season.

In any case the flip side - waiting until a team is guaranteed before building the facilities - dosen't make a whole lot of sense either. Quebec is a little more wonky on account of the arena's price tag and the notion of them hosting the Olympics is rather farfetched, but the CFL has been wanting an Atlantic team for a while and this stadium talk is providing an excellent opportunity for Halifax to take advantage of the shortcomings of Moncton's building with a much more reasonably-priced facility.

[someone123]

There is no stadium being built in Halifax right now. It's in the planning stages. Right now is when they consider things like what the potential uses and demand might be (and which scale of stadium, if any, would be reasonable). It's a little early to make white elephant complaints.

[musicman]

Wanderers grounds is a national historic site. Not going to happen, and you have to remember that the halifax commons was huge at one point and is supposed to be remediated to parkland as buildings are taken down... The commons extends all the way to south street so i don't think that would happen either..

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by musicman

Wanderers grounds is a national historic site. Not going to happen, and you have to remember that the halifax commons was huge at one point and is supposed to be remediated to parkland as buildings are taken down... The commons extends all the way to south street so i don't think that would happen either..

So we build a stadium with faux-Victorian ornamentation and red brick... hell, the city designated a totally ordinary WWII wooden structure there as historic - what a joke - and was going to waste a boatload of tax dollars on a restoration before they discovered it was full of rot... thank god. Now they are tearing it down. The museum is there. The bengal lancers are there. Now there is a new high school there. I don't think it is returning to common land any time soon.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

So we build a stadium with faux-Victorian ornamentation and red brick... hell, the city designated a totally ordinary WWII wooden structure there as historic - what a joke - and was going to waste a boatload of tax dollars on a restoration before they discovered it was full of rot... thank god. Now they are tearing it down. The museum is there. The bengal lancers are there. Now there is a new high school there. I don't think it is returning to common land any time soon.

The idea of turning all of that land into a giant park is completely ridiculous and would be harmful to the city. The only reason why this was originally common land was that at the time Halifax was very small and people required land for pasturing animals and other purposes. Those uses make no sense today.

One of the biggest problems in Halifax is that there is too much underused public land. The city has a surplus of parking lots, half-empty industrial sites, and bits of grass with no particular purpose.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

So we build a stadium with faux-Victorian ornamentation and red brick...

How about an old style stadium that has some of the elements of Camden Yards (Baltimore Orioles) and some elements of Stanford Stadium (US University Football). It is interesting to me that the most popular baseball stadiums are the old style Fenway Park, Wrigley Field, Camden Yards ... The first two really are old, and Camden Yards was a retro style new stadium. It has been found that the old style (retro) cozy stadiums are the most popular.

This is Camden Yards (the first retro-Ball Parks in the MLB)
(source: rdelucchi , shown at http://www.makefive.com/categories/sports/team/top-5-mlb-baseball-stadiums/camden-yards )


This is Fenway: (source: David Tompkins - http://dt.org/html/pics.html )


Wrigley Field (source: Dawn Mikulich at http://chicagouncommon.com/photography/gallery/765/ )


Combine Stanford Stadium (football): (source as shown on the image)


I think that the style that would fit at the Wanderers Grounds next to the Public Gardens would be a retro style football stadium that is camouflaged with dirt berms and lots of plant life like Stanford Stadium, with any exposed walls "faux-Victorian ornamentation and red brick" as you stated. So it would blend in with that part of the city.

However, the roof will detract from the cozy feel, especially if it is a massive columnless design. So I think an old style internally supported roof will be the most cozy and least obtrusive design. But any internal supports should be done to minimize obstructed views. I think that to minimize cost and so as not to detract from the stadium that it should only cover about half of the sideline seats. In case of rain, people in the lower bowl could seek shelter in the concourse under the upper tier which would be covered with a roof.

Such a design would require a lot of thought, but I don't think that it would be a costly design. It would be cozy and fit into that part of the city.

[wespidel]

Fenwick, I believe in a newer style type stadium, the Hamilton new Pam Am stadium may be of interest to you, in relation to it`s style, size and open endzone concept. Have you seen it, Sportsnet posted a side view of it, a few weeks ago comparing their old stadium with the new! I believe it would be a good idea for Halifax to seriuosly look at this model.

[ATL Stadium]

Originally Posted by someone123

The peninsula is central and densely populated. Mainland Halifax is a large area and a longer trip from Dartmouth. And how do people get to Dartmouth from Mainland Halifax? They drive across the Peninsula and the bridges.

As for the other talk and Halifax getting millions, you can't form a useful opinion about this without knowing details. The Halifax stadium plan is $30-60M. The feds might pay for one third. The Regina and Quebec City plans are in the hundreds of millions of dollars range.

Similarly the stadium isn't just for the CFL. SMU already has football and FIFA is part of the reason why the stadium issue has again come to the fore. Vaguely saying that Halifax is looking for a handout to build an elaborate stadium just to have a shot at the CFL is a gross distortion, but par for the course for the National Post and those who are caught up in petty regionalism.

I think what is happening now and will continue to take place, and even more so once the connection from the 102 to Burnside is done, is that people drive around.....and avoid the peninsula unless it is off hours (non rush hour). I do it all the time. I do go downtown or on the peninsula when needed. I have a season passes/tickets to the Mooseheads, Huskies (all sports), Rainmen, and do attend other events like the Canada Games, dinners and auctions etc....and yes I hate it....transportation other than my own auto is the pits!

If a stadium is to be successful and be an attraction to ticket buyers ease of use will have to be part of the offer....Halifax always relates to what we have now....or what we have experienced in the past. A Stadium is the future for events in Halifax.....we have been missing outdoor events for so long.....at least of the size that a stadium could of 30,000 could host.

It is difficult to make too many comparisons to other locations and thier needs but......if the Fed. Govt turns away Regina......how can they look at HRM and or Quebec City.....and ever say Yes..??? The only issue might be that Regina already has a current Stadium.

[ATL Stadium]

Fenwick
You have done so much work on the design side etc etc of a Stadium for HRM,,,what is your opinion on the land size needed (parking area aside). Just for the expandable Stadium for 30,000 seating, open end zones.

I viewed the construction video of Stanford Stadium and it was very straight forward.......one Stadium that I thought was very interesting was Allen E Paulson Stadium in Georgia....climate aside...it was built in 1984 for under five million....seating of 18000.
It has some similarities to Huskies Stadium and X...being its has a hill area for people to sit on the grass....it also touts luxury Booster Boxes and a Press Box.

Maybe the best starting place is to build small with the expansion capabilities designed in...get the 25,000 seats for FIFA, Indigenous Games etc etc...get some Fed Funding to Host and then add later as needed for tenants like CFL or for attractions like the U2 or the Uteck Bowl, Vanier etc etc...

I have a hard time knowing the taxpayer will balk at any perceived white elephant proposal.

For your thoughts.......and others.

[brettinhalifax]

account deleted

[ATL Stadium]

Hard to say what is going on in the background sometimes....I dont think the HRM situation would be an unreasonable "ask" for 25 -30 million.

The key is to keep the HRM debt load as low as possible.

I'm of two minds.....

1) Keep it as cheap and as simple as possible for 25,000 seats with expandable end zones....if Moncton can build 10,000 stadium for $20 million cant we build a 25,000 for 40 million?

2) Make it a bit of a statement piece....an attraction in and of itself..waterfront at Shannon Park, 30,000 with expansion in the end zones, luxury boxes, concessions, condos along the sides and store fronts....big parking lots and ferry terminals, with direct access up to the bridge and the 107 highway out to the 118.... I think you may entice a developer to pony up funds for the condo part, site prep, roadwork, and build the stadium at the same time. Who knows how much that would leave the taxpayer bill at.....

[Halifax Privateer]

I live in Portland Estates in Dartmouth. Dartmouth Crossing and Shannon Park are certainly closer than Peninsular Halifax. I however, would much prefer a DT Halifax location, as I enjoy the experience of making my outings an event.

I would much prefer a pre-game meal and beverage on the roof top patio at Your Fathers Mustache and a leisurely stroll over to the Stadium at the Wanderers Grounds, than gathering in the parking lot in Burnside.

Anyone agree?

[ATL Stadium]

I keep looking at the numbers for the temporary stadium for the BC Lions of the CFL built for 14.4 million just for the 2010 season.

I know......it was a rental....assemble /disassemble you own nothing at the end of the season. But ...there has to be a portion for depreciation of the steel/aluminum etc of the structure lifecycle itself.

The Stadium seating was 27,500 with the BC Lions having presold 20,000 season tickets... aprox 20000 were under a sort of rook structure engineered to hold snow and with stand winds....
It did have some ugly features like tented walls for areas and I'm sure would lacked the proper concession and other marshaling areas for the crowds....but.......its not unattractive in appearance and certainly would be interested in how much it would cost to buy this style of assembled steel stadium and make it a permanent structure......

You can actually view a video of the construction online.....

Intriguing.....!

Anybody know of any comments from the BC fans that actually went to the temp stadium?

[ATL Stadium]

Originally Posted by Halifax Privateer

I live in Portland Estates in Dartmouth. Dartmouth Crossing and Shannon Park are certainly closer than Peninsular Halifax. I however, would much prefer a DT Halifax location, as I enjoy the experience of making my outings an event.

I would much prefer a pre-game meal and beverage on the roof top patio at Your Fathers Mustache and a leisurely stroll over to the Stadium at the Wanderers Grounds, than gathering in the parking lot in Burnside.

Anyone agree?

Yeah I agree and clearly see your point but......how far would you walk? or maybe a better question would be.....do you think you'd find a parking spot.?

What if you ended up having to park in Dartmouth, ferry it over and walk up to your favorite watering hole and then walk further to the game and then back again to go home? Is that the leisurely walk you had envisioned?

These are on the other end of the argument for sure. but.......

I saw somewhere on a questionaire about Stadiums a question regarding the parking available within a 30 minute walking distance.....

In Winnipeg there are several large shopping centre parking areas close to Canadinns Stadium.....but they became so congested the city ended up offering people free bus transit by showing their game day tickets.....just to keep the cars out....people love their cars.....think that type of thing would work in HRM?

I can picture a few scenarios where public transit/park and ride would work.

[ATL Stadium]

Originally Posted by Halifax Privateer

I live in Portland Estates in Dartmouth. Dartmouth Crossing and Shannon Park are certainly closer than Peninsular Halifax. I however, would much prefer a DT Halifax location, as I enjoy the experience of making my outings an event.

I would much prefer a pre-game meal and beverage on the roof top patio at Your Fathers Mustache and a leisurely stroll over to the Stadium at the Wanderers Grounds, than gathering in the parking lot in Burnside.

Anyone agree?

Lets reverse it a bit.....would you be as willing to ....say....travel to MicMac Mall, jump on a shuttle to Shannon Park with your family and enjoy a meal and soda at the Stadium Pre-game?

Or say..... park near Boston Pizza at Dartmouth Crossing then hoof it over to the Stadium located in that proximity?

I think it depends on who you might be with and the atmosphere....! and the day///// who wants to walk anywhere in the rain! Then sit in an outdoor stadium in the rain....only football fans and Kiss concerts!...

I think a roof is grand idea....