Halifax Stadium Discussion

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by Northend Guy

Hell almost froze over...I read that STV supported a stadium...and then I read that their support for a stadium is only a means to an end - basically that it is a way to divert federal dollars from the CC. Go figure. Well at least there is support for the stadium. Keep hoping that there will be $ for both!

It is a pretty interesting tack for them to take... and pretty risky.
There is some chance that it will work, but I would say that it stands a better chance of blowing up in their face now that they have officially gone on the record as saying they support a stadium. If the CC does get funded, no one will remember the trick they were trying to play, but pro-Stadia folk will be able to trot that quote out for years to come.

PS: Before someone points it out, yes I know I commented on this thread even though I said I wouldn't anymore. I read that article and thought "ok wow now THAT is an interesting issue that people will be jawing about!".

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by ATL Stadium

I know that we have all gone over this so many times....a Stadium location is a very difficult issue.....and very controversial.
So......I'll throw this out there for all to consider ......

HRM is much larger than the peninsula of Halifax.....and any peninsula location would not only have huge traffic/transportation issues but likely great opposition from neighbouring residential areas.
Any time a large event (+30,000) has occurred on the peninsula in the past it generally has been a one time type of event....so short term issues...(Pope visit, concerts on the commons etc etc)
Unless there were huge infrastructure funds to change streets and routing of traffic, shielding residential areas off....I can only envision a path of least resistance, being an off peninsula location.

FIRE AWAY!

We seem to be going around in circles so I think that we should just agree to disagree.

I can see a stadium in a location like Shannon Park being used only 10 - 15 times a year; it will be a stadium dedicated to the CFL. Free concerts during Natal Day and other such events will continue to be held at the Garrison Grounds and possibly concerts on the Commons. A stadium is a venue that should get the maximum use. This is why major cities have decided that central locations are the best. Taking a path of least resistance might sound reasonable but not if the stadium will be seen as a failure once built.

As many of us have stated many times before, most sporting events and concerts don't occur during rush hour and I am sure the current infrastructure on the peninsula can handle the traffic. In fact there is more existing infrastructure, and more people per square kilometer on the peninsula than in isolated locations. But in any case, people on one side of the harbour will be passing through the peninsula anyway.

I really believe that many people in the HRM have been convinced that the peninsula is a poor location for a stadium when all the facts point in the opposite direction. Many large events that are held on the peninsula are well attended. I attended concerts many years ago on the Garrison Grounds, and I understand why people like coming into the city to attend events. There is a better ambiance when attending an event in the heart of the city than you would have in a somewhat isolated location such as Shannon Park (just my personal view of point).

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by ATL Stadium

Not sure of the terms used on this list.... do you mean...
Shannon Park
Dartmouth Crossing/Burnside
Mainland Commons
Exhibition Park
Bayers Lake

???????

I was trying to encourage people to help add to the list - I was just trying to remember from memory what places we had discussed mainly. They aren't meant to be in any specific order, just what came into my brain when I was thinking about it.

The Bedford Common (the commercial shopping area - isn't that what its called??) was mentioned a couple times too.

[halifaxboyns]

While I agree with Fenwick mostly (on the peninsula location), I think Fenwick that the wanderers grounds is covered by whatever regulations control the common. Wasn't it part of the original dedication? In which case, if it is - wouldn't it be a problem on the grounds too?

With the increasing push to densify the peninsula, I'm sure that a location anywhere on the peninsula would work well for attendance. If I look at typically how people have attended these events - they usually end up at the various bars and restaurants downtown, then attend the event. I'm surprised we havent' heard from the downtown business association on the stadium yet. They've been unusually quiet.

[Halifax Privateer]

The downtown as it is currently constituted brings in large numbers of people each and every week day. How many people work downtown? 50,000-100,00.
They all arrive and leave at approximately the same time. As Fenwick stated events held at a new downtown venue would be on weekends and evenings. I don't believe there would be any signifigant difference in traffic than on a typical rush hour day.

[Empire]

The Bedford 4-plex, Canada Games Field House and the Oval are all having a positive effect on HRM. This is an ideal time for politicians to cash in on the wave and get the long overdue stadium built.

[halifaxboyns]

I would agree with both HP and Empire - now is the time and I suspect the traffic volume wouldn't be much more than typical rush hour. The only comment I'd make on the traffic is that unlike regular weekday rush hour (where you see traffic coming in between 7 and 9am/4 and 6pm) - I think the traffic inbound would probably be staggered over the day, depending on who is attending.

So what I mean is: Some people might come into downtown early (sit, have a few beers, relax, have dinner), while others might come closer to the game time. So the volume of traffic arriving wouldn't be as constant as morning rush hour. But I suspect you'd probably see about 75% of typical rush hour traffic leaving shortly after the game - I'm guessing about 25% would stick around downtown to party more (while most of the families would pack up and head home).

[PoscStudent]

Here's an interesting article.

Kelly McParland: Halifax wants a stadium too

The list if Canadian cities that need stadiums and/or hockey arenas is growing.

Regina needs a domed football stadium because it has a CFL football team and the fans would be much more comfortable if they weren’t half-frozen much of the time, and because a new stadium would allow the existing facility to be redeveloped into a housing and entertainment district. Hamilton needs a new stadium because it has a CFL football team and ancient Ivor Wynne Stadium is falling apart. Quebec needs a new arena because … well, because it’s Quebec and even though it doesn’t have an NHL team to play in the arena, anyone who questions the project is anti-Quebec and anti-French and doesn’t understand the crucial importance of Quebec national ambitions.
Now Halifax needs one too. Actually, Halifax has needed a stadium for some time, but was surprisingly slow to realize that the federal financing trough might be open for business. Defence Minister Peter MacKay, a good, loyal Nova Scotia boy, took care of that when he declared on the weekend that he was fully on board.

“We have to be able to justify this to taxpayers,” he said Monday after an announcement at the Halifax Stanfield International Airport. “It has to be done in a way that doesn’t jeopardize other projects.

“It all has to be done in balance, but is it something that I personally am committed to? Yes it is.”

.Does Halifax have a professional football team to play there? Er, no. Is there a prospect of it acquiring one? Uh, not really. Is the need for a stadium any different today than it was, say, five years ago? Well, there’s the possibility of being selected as a host city for the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup. So that would ensure it was busy for, like, a few weeks, anyway. Other than that there’s always unspecified concerts and trade shows, just like every other city.

But nevermind. Halifax is planning to spend $100,000 on a “feasibility study,” which, I’m willing to bet, will conclude that a stadium is fully feasible is someone comes along to pick up the costs. Someone, like … a government outside of Nova Scotia. And why not? None of the other needy cities has the money for its project and each has its hand out for taxpayer funds. Ontario’s government has come through for Hamilton. The provincial and municipal governments, both of which are broke, nonetheless claim they can find $400 million for Quebec (even if the province can’t even pay its own lawyers). Nova Scotia, unfortunately, can’t pretend to have that kind of money, so Halifax is stuck looking for a handout from Ottawa. Because — other than equalization funding, regional development support and regular transfer payments from Ottawa — the Atlantic provinces, as we all know, don’t get their fair share from Confederation.

Well, good for Halifax. It’s case to have the rest of the country build it a sports facility is no worse than any other city’s. And it helps bring home the fact that if Ottawa thinks it can find money for one city (say, in Quebec), and not for a dozen others, it’s dreaming in both official languages, and several local dialects as well.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/02/22/kelly-mcparland-halifax-wants-a-stadium-too/

She makes several spellling mistakes.

[beyeas]

it amazes me how the second a region/province becomes a "Have", they immediately begin to sneer at other regions.

She may in fact have some valid points about the use of public money, but the author negates the validity of whatever points she had when she starts making snide childish remarks about things like "Because — other than equalization funding, regional development support and regular transfer payments from Ottawa — the Atlantic provinces, as we all know, don’t get their fair share from Confederation.". Just makes me laugh given the long long history of federal money bailouts and support given to the prairies, and yet it is everyone else who is the winer.

[PoscStudent]

Originally Posted by beyeas

it amazes me how the second a region/province becomes a "Have", they immediately begin to sneer at other regions.

What's that all about?

[someone123]

There's also a double standard -- other places get federal funding and NS gets "handouts", even though the federal funding share is still small and people there also pay federal taxes.

Few people understand equalization and the "have" attitude is awfully rich given the fact that "have" status in Canada is universally based off of federal favour and resource windfalls.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

What's that all about?

How do you mean?

[PoscStudent]

Originally Posted by beyeas

How do you mean?

What region are you talking about? I believe the author is from "Have Not" Ontario.

[beyeas]

ah ok my mistake... I mis-read that.

That, if anything, makes it worse, given that ON now receives equalization payments, get huge federal subsidies (handouts?) for several of its major industries, and obtains boatloads of transfer payments. As someone123 said, people clearly don't understand equalization.

[someone123]

It's a classic "ugly Ontarian" piece. If you think you are in the centre of the universe you can be extremely parochial and yet still feel entitled to have your say about other regions you know nothing about.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

Here's an interesting article.



http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/02/22/kelly-mcparland-halifax-wants-a-stadium-too/

Well, Halifax has never been given money for a stadium, plus our population is like 2.5 times greater than Regina! So really, this article should say we are ahead in line.

If we built a stadium a CFL team would clearly fall into place.

Also, why can't everbody get money? Doesn't that make us more competitive when it comes to hosting any sort of international event.

[PoscStudent]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Well, Halifax has never been given money for a stadium, plus our population is like 2.5 times greater than Regina! So really, this article should say we are ahead in line.

If we built a stadium a CFL team would clearly fall into place.

Also, why can't everbody get money? Doesn't that make us more competitive when it comes to hosting any sort of international event.

I don't know much about the whole thing but I think she brought up some good points in the article, I need to see a proper rebuttle to her article to really have a proper opinion.

I do think the fact that both Halifax and Quebec are willing to spend millions on a sports facilities without having any teams set up for them isn't the greatest idea. Though you likely wouldn't get the CFL, in Halifax's case, or the NHL, in Quebec's case, to guarantee a team for the citites without having the proper facility in place, so this is a risk you must take.

As well there's only so much money to go around, the feds can't give every city in Canada $100 million.

[ATL Stadium]

Originally Posted by Empire

The Bedford 4-plex, Canada Games Field House and the Oval are all having a positive effect on HRM. This is an ideal time for politicians to cash in on the wave and get the long overdue stadium built.

I'll agree with that statement!

[beyeas]

I couldn't resist! They opened the door to it!

Submitted by beyeas on Tue, 2011-02-22 12:59.
Even the Heritage Trust folks support this!
For all those people who are claiming that this is just another tax grab and there is no business case etc, I just wanted to note that even the Heritage Trust folks are coming out in support of a new stadium.

Allan Robertson of Save The View is on the record as saying that among the reasons why he supports is "The third reason is a new stadium wouldn't lose money,...".
Apparently the Save The View campaign has sent a letter asking the government to fund this project.

Clearly everyone from hardcore sports lovers to Save The View heritage supporters are in favour of this! Build it!

[ATL Stadium]

Originally Posted by Halifax Privateer

The downtown as it is currently constituted brings in large numbers of people each and every week day. How many people work downtown? 50,000-100,00.
They all arrive and leave at approximately the same time. As Fenwick stated events held at a new downtown venue would be on weekends and evenings. I don't believe there would be any signifigant difference in traffic than on a typical rush hour day.

I'd like to point out from previously posted stats the ticket buying public....do not live on the peninsula....point being that although we often shut our eyes to those avoiding the peninsula it has caused what some refer negatively to as the urban sprawl......Burnside, Bayers Lake, Aerotech, Dartmouth Crossing, Woodside,,,,, I have no idea how many work in downtown....I do know many businesses and the dockyards all stagger their shifts and work hours to avoid the traffic snarles.....those that take transit to work in downtown go extra early to avoid being late.

Here are the (2006) numbers again of the ticket buying public.....and do not forget its the event that draws the ticket purchaser not the Stadium.!

Peninsula 58,025 residents
Halifax side off peninsula 180,219
Dartmouth side off peninsula 134,614

The biggest issue I see about the Stadium is making it easy for people to come and go from an event.....in an on going basis.....not simply for one event but for every event.

Even if as you say many may go early to an event....it all ends at once....so you may have 30,000 at one time leaving the Stadium.....its bad enough just leaving downtown Hfx after a Mooseheads game with 7000.....try 30,000 people! Yes I know the argument...public rapid transit, rail commute etc etc. but we dont have that infrastructure to work with.....do you know how many buses it would take to move 30,000 people!