London Roads

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by Underground100

However, only 11.8% indicated their support for the pilot, while 80% did not approve. 8.2% noted accessibility concerns. At least 44% believed it would have a negative impact on their trip.

Are people really so lazy that they can't walk another 300 feet? That's what the whole pilot amounts to. Personally I'd like to see Dundas street pedestrianized with trees and landscaping between Richmond and Wellington, it's useless as a transportation corridor.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Wharn

Are people really so lazy that they can't walk another 300 feet? That's what the whole pilot amounts to. Personally I'd like to see Dundas street pedestrianized with trees and landscaping between Richmond and Wellington, it's useless as a transportation corridor.

I agree. However, the way the survey was worded, any added walking distance was considered a "negative impact" on a trip.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by Wharn

Are people really so lazy that they can't walk another 300 feet? That's what the whole pilot amounts to. Personally I'd like to see Dundas street pedestrianized with trees and landscaping between Richmond and Wellington, it's useless as a transportation corridor.

Dundas between Talbot and Wellington could be converted to a pedestrian mall. In the future LRT tracks could also run where the street formerly was.

The city needs to grow a pair and just do it. Asking the public won't give your the right answer. People generally don't like change.

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Dundas between Talbot and Wellington could be converted to a pedestrian mall. In the future LRT tracks could also run where the street formerly was.

The city needs to grow a pair and just do it. Asking the public won't give your the right answer. People generally don't like change.

I often wonder how we can come up with these logical ideas yet for some reason they never happen.

That would be a great plan, get a bus depot built somewhere downtown, get the buses off Dundas and as you said simply close the street. There is no need to traffic in those areas, in the end I feel it would dramatically help traffic flow getting cars onto King and Queen.

[haljackey]

Yep Dundas could become a pedestrian mall between Talbot and Wellington. Any businesses along here could receive supplies either through a back entrance or can be wheeled from adjacent streets. It's do-able.

Talbot could also become a pedestrian mall between King and Dundas. That would create a large open square ideal for festivities.

[MolsonExport]

It is the northwest sector that has the most woeful infrastructure, given the population growth and the immense draw of the dumbcentre/Costco, Western, etc.

[MolsonExport]

SSP London meetup tomorrow (saturday february 12) at Crabby Joes downtown. come one, come all.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=188121

[manny_santos]

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2011/02/13/17262721.html

"But the $230 million price tag — $126 million of which would go to build interchanges from east-west roads that now intersect the parkway — caused much concern."

There is no way the City of London should be footing that bill. Veterans Memorial Parkway is part of the National Highway System, and as such should be funded primarily by the federal government with help from the province. It's a shame the province downloaded it in the early 1990s.

[MolsonExport]

^just another part of Mike Harris's uncommon nonsense revolution.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

^just another part of Mike Harris's uncommon nonsense revolution.

Actually, it was downloaded under Bob Rae after the City of London annexed that part of the city.

http://www.thekingshighway.ca/Highway100_2.htm

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

SSP London meetup tomorrow (saturday february 12) at Crabby Joes downtown. come one, come all.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=188121

This is what I get for not checking the London local. Missed by two days

Originally Posted by haljackey

Dundas between Talbot and Wellington could be converted to a pedestrian mall. In the future LRT tracks could also run where the street formerly was.

The city needs to grow a pair and just do it. Asking the public won't give your the right answer. People generally don't like change.

Ideally, I would hope Dundas street could eventually be made to look like Sparks Street in downtown Ottawa. I really like the idea of using it as an LRT corridor, perhaps kinda what they did in Strasbourg:



But honestly, before any such project is attempted, the city has to make some massive improvements in the road department. An industrial city (which London basically is) needs a good high-speed road network before improvements in public transit can be made. The issue for both projects is, and always will be, funding. Maybe if we weren't wasting our time fighting an unwinnable war in Crapganistan we'd actually have some money floating around to improve our cities' infrastructure.

[haljackey]

Hey guys,

I'll be going to London's city hall tonight where they'll be having a meeting discussing turning the VMP into a freeway and extending it south of the 401.

Believe it or not, I have to attend a Built and Natural Environment Agenda Meeting for school and write a report on it. May as well attend something that's somewhat interesting so I can kill two birds with one stone.

Here are the agendas regarding the VMP for today's meeting if interested.

http://council.london.ca/meetings/BNEC%20Agendas/2011-02-14%20Agenda/Item%2018.pdf

http://council.london.ca/meetings/BNEC%20Agendas/2011-02-14%20Agenda/Item%2019.pdf


From what I understand, there are a few things that are considered for the VMP for the short to mid term:
-Extend VMP from Huron Street to Clarke Road
-Widen VMP from Oxford Street to Huron Street and include a new rail overpass.
-Add interchanges at Bradley Avenue and Hamilton Road and a overpass for River Road
-Reconstruct the VMP/401 interchange to a higher capacity trumpet design. If the route is approved to be extended south of the 401, it will be converted to a Parclo A-4 (which is terrible if you want the VMP to be a freeway but that's the current proposition).

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by haljackey

-Reconstruct the VMP/401 interchange to a higher capacity trumpet design. If the route is approved to be extended south of the 401, it will be converted to a Parclo A-4 (which is terrible if you want the VMP to be a freeway but that's the current proposition).

London thinks they can do whatever they want with that interchange. It is provincial property and as such it is up to the MTO what they do with it. If there is a freeway extending north and south of the 401, I highly doubt the MTO would build a Parclo A-4.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by haljackey

-Reconstruct the VMP/401 interchange to a higher capacity trumpet design. If the route is approved to be extended south of the 401, it will be converted to a Parclo A-4 (which is terrible if you want the VMP to be a freeway but that's the current proposition).

London thinks they can do whatever they want with that interchange. It is provincial property and as such it is up to the MTO what they do with it. If there is a freeway extending north and south of the 401, I highly doubt the MTO would build a Parclo A-4.

Just like on Highway 4 near the 401 where the City posted a speed limit sign right next to an existing MTO sign a number of years ago. (In case you didn't just see that the speed limit is 80, here's a reminder!) One of the two signs was removed a year or so later.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Its disheartening reading that report.

It "speculates" that the first interchange to be built @ Bradely will not be until 2028! With each additional interchange being built 5 years apart, with an expected finish date of 2073.

Hopefully the Feds or Province have some more pork-barrel make work projects up there shelves. I doubt London can wait another 60 years for it to get some form of freeway, something that ought to have happened decades previous.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

Its disheartening reading that report.

It "speculates" that the first interchange to be built @ Bradely will not be until 2028! With each additional interchange being built 5 years apart, with an expected finish date of 2073.

Hopefully the Feds or Province have some more pork-barrel make work projects up there shelves. I doubt London can wait another 60 years for it to get some form of freeway, something that ought to have happened decades previous.

I will be 87 years old when it's complete. Wherever I am living in the world, even if I'm in a wheelchair with an oxygen mask, I'll be there.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

Its disheartening reading that report.

It "speculates" that the first interchange to be built @ Bradely will not be until 2028! With each additional interchange being built 5 years apart, with an expected finish date of 2073.

Bah, I will only be 104 years old! A veritable spring chicken.


Prolly happen before the Marble Loafs win the Stanley cup.

[Kokkei Mizu]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Two issues with that:

- There is a trunk gas line that runs along the northern boundary of the city, halfway between the 6th and 7th concession
- There may be no room for an interchange at Richmond Street (Highway 4) due to the development in Arva.

Sorry to bring this back up, but I think there is room for an interchange at Richmond Street.

http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&hq=&ll=43...H_w7MfxwJ3bBmYMRU_A&cbp=12,169.75,,0,6.8

If you look at that Street View shot: Why can't the freeway pass over Richmond taking advantage of the hill Richmond cuts through. Then have a diamond interchange as those don't have to take up much space at all...

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

London thinks they can do whatever they want with that interchange. It is provincial property and as such it is up to the MTO what they do with it. If there is a freeway extending north and south of the 401, I highly doubt the MTO would build a Parclo A-4.

While you're probably right, I can't say so for sure because they didn't get to Item 19 yesterday. When they finished #18 they called it a day because they were running late and it was Valentine's day.

--------------------------------------------

Some interesting notes from the committee meeting yesterday that I took:

-Estimated cost to upgrade the existing VMP from an expressway to a freeway: $230 million (in 2008 dollars). This is "quite a bargain" according to the city's transportation planners.

-No interchanges to be built for another 20-30 years!

-The MTO is "very concerned" with the proposed interchange at Bradley as it's too close to the VMP/401 junction. They recommend scrapping the design and building a full parclo A-4 at Hamilton Road. (A diamond is proposed there right now.)

-It's unlikely the city can afford to build 1 interchange every 5 years.

-Need for senior government financing for any construction. If the city is denied funding, the city is not willing to build it on it's own.

-Cost to acquire property needed for interchanges: $11.8 million (in today's dollars). Recommended to be added to the City's Official Plan.

-It will cost another $4 million to buy the remaining land left to acquire for an extension to Clarke Road.

-The proposed freeway will have "frugal" design standards and diamond interchanges due to the narrow right of way.

-The VMP/Admiral Drive intersection to be closed in 2058 as it is too close to the proposed Gore Road and Dundas Street interchanges.

-The Mayor stated that "the VMP was always envisioned to be a freeway. I never thought it would have 12 stoplights on it."

-The committee says it's "too late" to build a ring road for London. The VMP is the city's last chance for any kind of urban freeway.

-A TDL (Tim Horton's) spokesperson was at the meeting stating that they cannot support the VMP becoming a freeway because access will be cut-off at Admiral Drive. They say it will be a massive loss of business for them (there's a Timmy's at this intersection), local residents and other businesses.

-TDL recommends widening the VMP to a 6 lane expressway rather than converting it to a 4 lane freeway.

-TDL also states that they city is moving "way too fast" on this issue because the 2030 transportation master plan is to be presented soon. (Personally, I think this city moves extremely slow when it comes to transportation planning... the freeway should have been built in the 1970's.)

-The need for a freeway is only supported when London reaches a population of 675,000 (they weren't specific as to if this is city or metro pop) and thus no interchanges will be built any time soon.

-The committee voted in favor of item #18. Item #19 was moved to be presented sometime next week.

-----------------------------------------------------

Only two people attended this meeting. Myself and an old person. It was kinda sad.

[Wharn]

The entire length of the road should be completed and brought up to freeway standards no later than 2031. There is absolutely no hope for a northern ring-road if this is the kind of planning that prevails. But there is something more troubling about this. Remind me, why are the feds funding a $400 million hockey arena in Quebec city? The kind of money would get about half the "London Ring Road" built! Forget about relative city sizes, it's being spent on something that will ultimately be a private venture.